Bernal vs. Pogacar vs. Evenepoel

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No doubt Contador was crash happy after 2010 in the Tour especially. Didn't really see him doing the double in 2011. He won the Giro and then had to beat both Schleck and Evans in good form. 2014 we will never know as when he crashed out he was already two minutes behind a flying Nibali and Froome crashed out as well. To me Contador was at his very best between 2007 and 2012.
Post ban Contador was more tactically daring. Maybe this contributed to him crashing more?

Although some of those crashes were just bad luck e.g. early in 2011 TdF. IMO Contador’s last ‘ballistic’ performance based upon pure power was 2011 Giro.

As for this thread as of this time we have to rank Pogacar as clear best. Evenepoel needs to stop teasing us and finish a grand tour with ideal prep. But I do think Egan Bernal will be back. We haven’t seen the best of him either. Interesting times.
 
Evenepoel doesn't belong in the same discussion yet. I'll wait until he's podiumed a GT or won some GT stages before taking part in a versus match.

As for this thread as of this time we have to rank Pogacar as clear best. Evenepoel needs to stop teasing us and finish a grand tour with ideal prep. But I do think Egan Bernal will be back. We haven’t seen the best of him either. Interesting times.
You got that right, i.e. for reasons which us mere TV viewers cannot comprehend, the Giro's transmission went dead whenever it rained so we didn't get to actually see the best of Bernal in May (i.e. when he destroyed everyone in the mountains & rode solo to the finish... whilst some crazies chased him with a chainsaw).

In fact Bernal's victory on that stage 16 rainy day was a bit similar to Pogacar's Grand Bornand solo raid in the Tour, even if not from as far out & without the time gaps being as big (& unlike Bernal, we actually got to see Pogacar's attack).
 
Evenepoel doesn't belong in the same discussion yet. I'll wait until he's podiumed a GT or won some GT stages before taking part in a versus match.
This. He's absolutely out of this before that. He must first be able to ride GT through and challenge those about 15-20 athletes there at the top that are able to repeat that level from year to another.
 
Stage races won:

Pogi: 2xTour, T-A, UAE, Cali, Slovenia, Algarve, Valenciana

Bernal: Tour, Giro, Suisse, P-N, Cali, Occitanie, Oro y Paz, Sibiu

Evenepoel: Pologne, Burgos, Algarve, 2xBelgium, San Juan

One is not like the others.
Funny dig, but the thread was about potential. As you are likely aware, Evenepoel is still 1 year younger than Bernal when he won the Tour, and 3 years younger than Bernal when he won the Giro. Regardless of his lost season, his victories still outshine those of Bernal at that age.
 
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Funny dig, but the thread was about potential. As you are likely aware, Evenepoel is still 1 year younger than Bernal when he won the Tour, and 3 years younger than Bernal when he won the Giro. Regardless of his lost season, his victories still outshine those of Bernal at that age.
It 'was' about potential, now 2 have delivered of course he isn't looked at in the same bracket until he does so.
Which if he learns how to ride a bike other than on a flat, straight line he has almost unlimited potential, but he has to do something first to be in a conversation with 2 double grand tour winners.
 
Evenepoel doesn't belong in the same discussion yet. I'll wait until he's podiumed a GT or won some GT stages before taking part in a versus match.
Obviously we are yet to see him ride a GT after normal preparations. Unfortunately he won't ride the Vuelta so there's a lot of time until his next GT. Pogacar and Bernal are already proved GT champions (while Vingegaard and Almeida showed aspirations for GT victories) but Evenepoel still has a lot of time to prove his GT strength.
 
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Just imagined that we thought the class of Aru, Bardet, Majka, Chaves, Pinot, Kelderman, Dumoulin etc. would dominate the GTs after Froome, Nibs and Contador. How wrong we where and how good is it that they didn't, because these rider barely contributed anything other than hanging on and sporadic attacking.
 
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Just imagined that we thought the class of Aru, Bardet, Majka, Chaves, Pinot, Kelderman, Dumoulin etc. would dominate the GTs after Froome, Nibs and Contador. How wrong we where and how good is it that they didn't, because these rider barely contributed anything other than hanging on and sporadic attacking.
Let's generalize a few riders who did between 0 and 1 good Tours each and then flame them for never attacking, when in fact some of them were pretty damn aggressive when they had the legs.

However I suppose we can be eternally grateful we have GT winners like Geraint Thomas and Tao Geogeghan Hart.
 
Just imagined that we thought the class of Aru, Bardet, Majka, Chaves, Pinot, Kelderman, Dumoulin etc. would dominate the GTs after Froome, Nibs and Contador. How wrong we where and how good is it that they didn't, because these rider barely contributed anything other than hanging on and sporadic attacking.
who is "we" in this.

Aru, Bardet, Majka, and Chaves were never going to dominate anything -- way too one dimensional.

Dumoulin -- I had hopes for -- he fit the GC contender mold well -- TTer who could climb with the best. but maybe losing the weight necessary and the mental were not there and the new generation has come in before he could establish himself. He would have been transitional anyway and not a dominator.
 
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Funny dig, but the thread was about potential. As you are likely aware, Evenepoel is still 1 year younger than Bernal when he won the Tour, and 3 years younger than Bernal when he won the Giro. Regardless of his lost season, his victories still outshine those of Bernal at that age.
ah, yes, it was about potential, agreed.

For now, for sure, Pog is -- by far -- dominating the results (and can do it year-round in many different races)
Bernal is second in terms of GTs -- but is just a touch better than one-trick ponies who can only climb. His ability to compete with Pog (or even possibly Vingo) will depend entirely on the route design.
Remco had the most blistering start of a pro career by age 20+ (with Pog likely just a touch behind). However, that potential has been put on hold due to the injury. Detractors will point to a disappointing (though unrealistic and foolish) Giro. Okay. But what's funny is that they put that as his ceiling, while allowing others to grow exponentially from that young age. I personally believe Remco -- fully recovered -- can amaze. However, I am less bullish on how and in what races -- he basically has to power ride everyone off his wheel or take advantage of TTs. Pog has explosivity that Remco will never have. The question is whether Remco's ability to sustain an unbelievable pace will be enough.

there are so many here who are desperate to bury remco. the irony is they are likely the same ones who will complain ad nauseam when Pog continues to dominate. they will rather hope for GTs with zero TTs so that maybe Carapaz or Simon Yates can hope to create some superficial drama. why not hope that remco fulfills his GT potential and becomes a foil for the great Pog (along, perhaps, with Vingo)?
 
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How did it not age well?
2 of the 3 won the GT's this year and are arguably among the 3 best GC riders at the moment while still being youngsters. The third one showed a lot of promise before his crash in stage races so it's not unlikely he'll get there in the future as well.
That was my first association when I saw thread title again... A lot has changed since that thread was created.
 
How did it not age well?
2 of the 3 won the GT's this year and are arguably among the 3 best GC riders at the moment while still being youngsters. The third one showed a lot of promise before his crash in stage races so it's not unlikely he'll get there in the future as well.
Bernal is not top-3 anymore, IMO. Vingegaard >> Bernal.

Bernal may have won the Giro, but only beat Caruso by a pretty small margin. Bernal had the 2 best doms in the race, too -- Martinez and Castroviejo. Martinez (could have) dropped him in several mountain stages, too.

Imagine if Caruso had those two super doms racing for him instead...

Yes, Bernal raced pretty aggressively in the first part of the race, but never opened up a huge gap over Caruso.

It just wasn't an impressive enough GT win to put him up there with Vingegaard, who didn't lose a lot of time to Pogacar in weeks 2 & 3.

Same for Carapaz, pretty much, except for the ITT

I seriously doubt that a rider that got dropped by S. Yates, Martinez, Almeida and Caruso could have stayed with Pogacar, Vingegaard and Carapaz. Or Roglic. (Although I suspect that Almeida could be up there with the best very soon)


Bernal may (or may not) face the 2 best GT specialists in the Vuelta. Both of them with a less than ideal prep, to put it mildly. If he's competitive or even wins that won't mean he's top-3, either. The 5th best GC rider in the world could easily win the GC, IMO.

We won't know until Bernal targets the Tour again (which may be never). He's a clever guy. He actually has a shot at the 2021 Vuelta. He could complete his GT collection and bounce.
 
Bernal is not top-3 anymore, IMO. Vingegaard >> Bernal.

Bernal may have won the Giro, but only beat Caruso by a pretty small margin. Bernal had the 2 best doms in the race, too -- Martinez and Castroviejo. Martinez (could have) dropped him in several mountain stages, too.

Imagine if Caruso had those two super doms racing for him instead...

Yes, Bernal raced pretty aggressively in the first part of the race, but never opened up a huge gap over Caruso.

It just wasn't an impressive enough GT win to put him up there with Vingegaard, who didn't lose a lot of time to Pogacar in weeks 2 & 3.

Same for Carapaz, pretty much, except for the ITT

I seriously doubt that a rider that got dropped by S. Yates, Martinez, Almeida and Caruso could have stayed with Pogacar, Vingegaard and Carapaz. Or Roglic. (Although I suspect that Almeida could be up there with the best very soon)


Bernal may (or may not) face the 2 best GT specialists in the Vuelta. Both of them with a less than ideal prep, to put it mildly. If he's competitive or even wins that won't mean he's top-3, either. The 5th best GC rider in the world could easily win the GC, IMO.

We won't know until Bernal targets the Tour again (which may be never). He's a clever guy. He actually has a shot at the 2021 Vuelta. He could complete his GT collection and bounce.
Hence the word arguably in my post. I like Vingegaard, but it feels very premature to call him a top 3 GC rider after finishing 2nd over 5 mins down in a Tour where a lot of GC riders crashed out of contention in the first week.
 

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