Best All-Rounder Rider Today?

[karlboss]

Evans has lost pretty much all the important sprints of his life, so I'm not sure why he'd be above Contador just cause he can sprint.

In an uphill sprint, they're about even as we've seen at Mur de Bretagne this year. And that was with a tired Contador. I'm sure in top shape both, Contador would prevail. As for the unpaved surfaces, it just isn't a part of cycling, so again, I see no reason to mention it. Both won't ever ride Paris-Roubaix or the Ronde van Vlaanderen. The only unpaved or poor road surfaces they'll encounter are strade bianche. And Contador did good enough there this year at the Giro.

At the cobbles of the Tour Contador did good as well, but was stuck behind Frank's crash.

In an uphill "sprint" though I've stated my objection to these being called sprints. Evans and Contador have gone head to head twice I can remember. 2:0 Evans. I think I see Cadel as more rounded as he doesn't have a dominant feature like Contador's climbing and actually has one day race wins in big races, despite Contador's potential to win them.

 

[airstream]

I think Contador is stronger in short TT's (prologues) and an explosive force, which gives him a nominal advantage in the mountains. Yeah, Cadel couldn't probably respond anything on magical Contador's turbo mode, but if he [Evans] is prepared very well, he will be able to defend very effectively and ride not slower than Contador, even being distanced. All the rest is for Evans. As for versatility I don't know riders close to him at all.

 

[El Pistolero]

In an uphill "sprint" though I've stated my objection to these being called sprints. Evans and Contador have gone head to head twice I can remember. 2:0 Evans. I think I see Cadel as more rounded as he doesn't have a dominant feature like Contador's climbing and actually has one day race wins in big races, despite Contador's potential to win them.

Montée de Laurent Jalabert is also an uphill wall. Contador beat Evans every time there. And on the Roche aux Faucons Contador easily rode away from Evans at LBL 2010.

It took how many attempts for Evans to ever win on Mur de Huy?

 

[airstream]

Montée de Laurent Jalabert is also an uphill wall. Contador beat Evans every time there.

When its high time to justify Contador for partial failure, you mention that he was tired, but apparently it has nothing to do with Evans last year... Cadel beat him on Mende in 2005.

 

[nevada]

How can we vote for Valverde when he hasn't raced in a long time and we don't know what his current level is.

and how do we know what he would have achieved clean.

 

[Midnightfright]

I say EBH.

he can sprint, tt, good on flats, cobbles, hills and even decent in mountains apparently.

This is a very good shout.

 

[karlboss]

Montée de Laurent Jalabert is also an uphill wall. Contador beat Evans every time there. And on the Roche aux Faucons Contador easily rode away from Evans at LBL 2010.

It took how many attempts for Evans to ever win on Mur de Huy?

Montée de Laurent Jalabert is a bit long 3.3km at 10% vs mur de huy 1.3km at 10% or de bretagne 2.2km at 6% for this argument, and how many times have they faced each other there, I only make it one. Contador fighting for the win and losing to rodriguez while Evans having nothing to gain and not in great form came in 30 seconds or something down. LBL 2010...I'm glad Contador rode away from evans, and then finished behind him. Yes I know tactics teammates blah blah.

I did say Evans has won, noting Contador's ability to win, I would say both the wins I noted were down to tactical errors by Contador.

 

[TeoSheva]

Not considering Valverde (he's out for the moment...), the best All-Rounder rider is Gilbert... ! he can sprint, can descend and on the hills is the best, and in one day race he can also climb really really well (San Sebastian, il Lombardia...). On the TT he improved a lot...and then is a winner: when he want to win something, he does it.

 

[hrotha]

and how do we know what he would have achieved clean.

Well, that particular caveat applies to pretty much everyone.

 

[cineteq]

well, that particular caveat applies to pretty much everyone.

+1000000000

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Cancellara should certainly be on the list above many of the others. He can TT, ride cobbles, sprint (5th on Champs Elysees and 4th in WC this year), has won more of the Monuments than any other present day rider, and has won 2 major stage races. That's some all round ability, even if he'll never be a GT contender.

Of those listed, Valverde for sure, but if the definition is current, then I'd go with Cancellara or EBH.

 

[cineteq]

Of those listed, Valverde for sure, but if the definition is current, then I'd go with Cancellara or EBH.

Cancellara is lacking a key skill, and that's why he's not on the list. Refer to original post for definition.

 

[maltiv]

Cancellara is lacking a key skill, and that's why he's not on the list. Refer to original post for definition.

Everyone on your list is lacking a key skill. Except from Valverde.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Cancellara is lacking a key skill, and that's why he's not on the list. Refer to original post for definition.

OK, gotcha. Using your definition of all-rounder, I'd say Evans then.

Using my definition of all-rounder, ie. somebody who has all round ability, I'll stick with Cancellara or EBH.

 

[maltiv]

OK, gotcha. Using your definition of all-rounder, I'd say Evans then

Well he's not really defining an all-rounder, he's defining a completely and utterly normal stage racer. Being able to climb, TT and be somewhat competitive in hilly classics is the rule, not the exception, for a stage racer. The problem with that definition is that it misses the fact that more than 50% of cycling races ends with a bunch sprint, and most riders many are defining as allrounders can't win bunch sprints, not even from a significantly reduced bunch. That, in my book, means that you're not an all-rounder. Cobbled classics should also count but maybe not as much.

I'd say that Valverde, EBH and Gilbert are the most complete riders, in that order.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

i voted others because of michele

 

[El Pistolero]

I would say Gilbert is pretty all-round as well. Who else can podium in Milan-San Remo, Omloop het Volk, Gent-Wevelgem, Ronde van Vlaanderen, Luik-Bastenaken-Luik, Amstel Gold Race, Fleche Wallonne, Clasica San Sebastian, Paris-Tours and the Giro di Lombardia?

He's not the fastest out there, but he has gotten second in bunch sprints in the Vuelta and Tour. Has beaten Boonen in a sprint at Paris-Tours as well. Also beat Farrar at the Vuelta in a power sprint.

His time trial is nothing special, but he has gotten close to winning prologues before and did a few good time trials at the Vuelta. Also is the national time trial champion of Belgium.

He's one of the best descenders of the non-sprinters as well. He won last year's Giro di Lombardia on a descend. At the Tour this year he out-descended everyone at the Tourmalet. Vanendert and Samuel Sanchez for example were gapped by Phil on that descend. He also did an incredible descend on the 13th stage of the Tour and the guys on the moto said they had never seen someone descend like that as he was going faster than them.

 

[Ferminal]

Well he's not really defining an all-rounder, he's defining a completely and utterly normal stage racer. Being able to climb, TT and be somewhat competitive in hilly classics is the rule, not the exception, for a stage racer. The problem with that definition is that it misses the fact that more than 50% of cycling races ends with a bunch sprint, and most riders many are defining as allrounders can't win bunch sprints, not even from a significantly reduced bunch. That, in my book, means that you're not an all-rounder. Cobbled classics should also count but maybe not as much.

I'd say that Valverde, EBH and Gilbert are the most complete riders, in that order.

EBH and Gilbert aren't stage racers (yet), at least for me I don't call someone a stage racer until they are competitive in the major week long races.

EBH has shown little in hilly classics.

It's very unlikely that you get someone who is a top stage racer and who can win what we would recognise as a bunch sprint. Valverde is the only person currently. EBH and Gilbert aren't even close to being top stage racers so in EBH's case you're comparing his sprinting to Evans' stage racing and hilly classics ability and for Gilbert his sprinting and hilly classics ability to Evans' stage racing ability (and to some extent their cobbled abilities). How we weight these is I guess completely subjective.

Personally I think winning the Dauphine overall (or should I say finishing second? ) is a better achievement than winning its 3 sprint stages, so I'd favour the stage racer over the sprinter.

 

[maltiv]

EBH and Gilbert aren't stage racers (yet), at least for me I don't call someone a stage racer until they are competitive in the major week long races.

I don't see any reason why Gilbert shouldn't be able to win T-A and EBH could without a doubt have won P-N with parcours similar to this year's edition. He also could've been in the top 10 overall of Dauphine this year if not for his puncture+riding for Wiggins (he would've been 2nd overall after the TT and presumably would have lost less time if he didn't spend 5 km's on the front destroying the field on the MTF). I realize there's a lot of "if's" and "could" involved though. In Oman this year when EBH finished 2nd on the MTF after finishing 3rd in the sprint the day before the commentator said that "EBH is without a doubt the most versatile rider in the pro peloton".

Thing is if we consider being able to climb and TT as being an all-rounder then we could as well ask "who's the best stage racer?"

 

[theyoungest]

In Oman this year when EBH finished 2nd on the MTF after finishing 3rd in the sprint the day before the commentator said that "EBH is without a doubt the most versatile rider in the pro peloton".

He finished a few seconds ahead of Devenyns and Visconti... it was an MTF without real climbers to contest it. EBH has never finished in the top-10 of a proper mountain finish, so until then I'm not sure he's capable of winning the more mountainous stage races like Paris-Nice and Dauphiné.

I think EBH's versatility is part of his "problem"... he's good at a lot of things, but never the best.

 

[Nick C.]

Gilbert is the first name that comes to mind. But factoring in being able to win one week races and/or GTs Valverde jumps to mind. Evans really is about as good as Valverde in the hilly classics except Valverde has a world class sprint. But since Evans can time trial and Valverde cannot I gave my vote to Evans.

 

[The Hitch]

I think Contador is stronger in short TT's (prologues) and an explosive force, which gives him a nominal advantage in the mountains. Yeah, Cadel couldn't probably respond anything on magical Contador's turbo mode, but if he [Evans] is prepared very well, he will be able to defend very effectively and ride not slower than Contador, even being distanced. All the rest is for Evans. As for versatility I don't know riders close to him at all.

What you are saying is that Contador is a slightly better climber and has a better prologue while Evans is better in every other aspect of cycling.

Reading that, someone would think that it is Evans who has won 6 grand tours by the age of 28.

 

[The Hitch]

Cancellara is lacking a key skill, and that's why he's not on the list. Refer to original post for definition.

The better term for your definition, would be "Best GT rider".

The guy isnt saying that Cancellara is the "Best GT rider" but that he is the "Best all rounder". Big difference.

 

[maltiv]

He finished a few seconds ahead of Devenyns and Visconti... it was an MTF without real climbers to contest it. EBH has never finished in the top-10 of a proper mountain finish, so until then I'm not sure he's capable of winning the more mountainous stage races like Paris-Nice and Dauphiné.

I think EBH's versatility is part of his "problem"... he's good at a lot of things, but never the best.

I said that he could've won Paris-Nice with similar parcours as this year, which is the case because it wasn't mountainous at all (not to mention passive racing).

 

[airstream]

What you are saying is that Contador is a slightly better climber and has a better prologue while Evans is better in every other aspect of cycling.

Reading that, someone would think that it is Evans who has won 6 grand tours by the age of 28.

Naturally, because versality itself doesn't win GTs. It just makes some background. Basso won the Giro, being able to ride nothing, but Zonkolan and Mortirolo.This thread is not about the riders' palmares otherwise Valverde wouldn't get so many votes.