Best rider per Country

[Lanark]

Spain Contador
Italy Nibali
Belgium Gilbert
France Fedrigo
United States Farrar
Slovenia Brajcovic
Denmark Breschel
Colombia Uran
Poland Szmyd
Ireland Daniel Martin
Portugal Machado
New Zealand Henderson

 

[The Hitch]

He does, last 2 seasons were simply better. That's all that matters.

Boonen is a second tier sprinter by the way.

Gilbert is a world class puncheur. Boonen is world class on the cobbles.

You still havent responded to the question of how you can dismiss a guy who unlike your hero has actually won LBL (twice) and a million other races ranging from flat bunch sprints to mountainous stage races as a "second tier climber, second tier sprinter, second tier time trial specialist", and then give Gilbert any sort of ranking without being a chauvinistic hypocrite

 

[El Pistolero]

You still havent responded to the question of how you can dismiss a guy who unlike your hero has actually won LBL (twice) and a million other races ranging from flat bunch sprints to mountainous stage races as a "second tier climber, second tier sprinter, second tier time trial specialist", and then give Gilbert any sort of ranking without being a chauvinistic hypocrite

Valverde is all that. That's why he wins so much.

Gilbert is a puncheur, nothing else. He can sprint fairly well on the flat because he's a puncheur(not as good as Valverde, but he's not Belgian, so I don't even know why you bring him up). He can do well on the hills because once again he's a puncheur(here he rivals Valverde for sure). He can do a decent TT because he's a puncheur(not that TT skills matter for him, he doesn't have a GC to defend). Still makes him better than Boonen

First tier climbers= Andy Schleck and Contador
Second tier= the other dudes.

Contador is better than Valverde. His 2 LBL wins don't really weight up against 3 Tours and 1 Giro

Nor does Valverde's 2 Dauphiné's and Catalunya weight up against Contador's 2 Paris-Nice's and 2 Pais Vasco's(and very soon Catalunya).

That and Contador can win the classics as well. But unlike Valverde, it's not his primary goal. But I already know the winner of Fleche Wallone this year. The winner on the road anyway. I don't care who they make the official winner in the end.

There's no chance in hell that Valverde will ever win the Tour or even the Giro, but I can definitely see Contador win LBL some day.

Is Valverde better than Gilbert? Yes, but Gilbert is Belgian and Valverde Spanish And last time I remembered Valverde is banned because he blood doped. While I haven't heard any doping stories about Gilbert. So yeah, he gets the benefit of the doubt even if you think he takes big time.

You really think I would pick Gilbert if Contador was Belgian? Hell no.

 

[The Hitch]

Valverde is all that. That's why he wins so much.

Gilbert is a puncheur, nothing else. He can sprint fairly well on the flat because he's a puncheur(not as good as Valverde, but he's not Belgian, so I don't even know why you bring him up). He can do well on the hills because once again he's a puncheur(here he rivals Valverde for sure). He can do a decent TT because he's a puncheur(not that TT skills matter for him). Still makes him better than Boonen

First tier climbers= Andy Schleck and Contador
Second tier= the other dudes.

Contador is better than Valverde. His 2 LBL wins don't really weight up against 3 Tours and 1 Giro

That and Contador can win the classics as well.

So your saying Gesink is a second tier climber?

Also, why is this "puncheur" catergory only coming up when we switch to Gilbert. Id say a former winner of Flech Wallone, and the guy who beat Gilbi last time in Plumelec is as good if not better there

 

[The Hitch]

But I already know the winner of Fleche Wallone this year. The winner on the road anyway. I don't care who they make the official winner in the end.
.

What do you know about some Wada case against Igor Anton that we dont

 

[El Pistolero]

So your saying Gesink is a second tier climber?

Also, why is this "puncheur" catergory only coming up when we switch to Gilbert. Id say a former winner of Flech Wallone, and the guy who beat Gilbi last time in Plumelec is as good if not better there

Yes, Gesink is a second tier climber at the moment. Of course he's still young, so I don't know what progress he has or will make.

You just can't put Gesink in the same category as AS and AC. Hence he doens't belong in the same tier.

I wouldn't call Valverde a puncheur, those wins came from his climbing abilities. Gilbert can't be called a climber, Valverde can. Valverde can win FW, I don't see Gilbert winning it. Not a good enough climber. Mur de Huy is steep, too steep for Gilbert.

When I call someone a second tier sprinter, second tier climber and second tier TT specialist(though I don't know how good Valverde is in a TT) it's everything except an insult. Try and find someone else who fits that description, it doesn't exist. No one can climb and sprint at the same time except Valverde. It's unique. It would be as unique as Gilbert winning Flanders and LBL/GdL this year. Michele Bartoli is a living legend among Belgian cycling fans.

 

[kurtinsc]

I've noticed that when "grading" riders, Pistolero seems to have a very strict scale.

If you aren't able to climb with Contador and Andy Schleck... you're a second tier climber. If you can't TT with Spartacus or Martin... you're a second tier TT rider. If you can't keep up with Boonen and Spartacus on the cobbles... you're a second tier northern classics rider.

I don't disagree that the guys he views as the best are the best... I just have wider tiers then he does.

 

[El Pistolero]

I've noticed that when "grading" riders, Pistolero seems to have a very strict scale.

If you aren't able to climb with Contador and Andy Schleck... you're a second tier climber. If you can't TT with Spartacus or Martin... you're a second tier TT rider. If you can't keep up with Boonen and Spartacus on the cobbles... you're a second tier northern classics rider.

I don't disagree that the guys he views as the best are the best... I just have wider tiers then he does.

You're right

 

[Lanark]

Valverde may be second tier in all those things (although I would call him a first tier climber), he is a first tier Classic rider of course, the best LBL rider of this generation.

 

[El Pistolero]

Valverde may be second tier in all those things (although I would call him a first tier climber), he is a first tier Classic rider of course, the best LBL rider of this generation.

Yes, never denied that.

But so are Boonen, Cancellara and Gilbert.

But in my opinion Contador has what it takes to win LBL. And I don't think he wants to end his career with AS having won a classic while he didn't.
--

Contador: 16 stage races(including 5 GTs)
Valverde: 12 stage races(and I'm being really kind here )

 

[Ryaguas]

United States - leipheimer

OK... WTF? Where is Ryo???

First tier climbers= Andy Schleck and Contador

Ok... just an stop here... IMO I think that the only first tier climber is Alberto... when Andrew shows the same performance in Il Giro and La Vuelta I'd call him a 1st tier climber... climb well in Le Tour is not enough... maybe Purito is the other one who comes close to a classification as first tier climber... but Alberto is the only clear in that classification...

What do you know about some Wada case against Igor Anton that we dont

Igor is a great climber with so much explosiveness but Le Mur is just so perfect for Alberto... last year He was a rookie in Le Mur, but OFC you know it

OK... are we seriously criticizing BalaVerde???

 

[El Pistolero]

I don't see anyone criticizing El Imbatido. He just isn't nearly as good as Contador. El Imbatido would be a better nickname for Contador if you look at his results. Although I know how Valverde got that nickname, so I don't need anyone to tell me why they call him that.

 

[Michielveedeebee]

I don't see anyone criticizing El Imbatido. He just isn't nearly as good as Contador. El Imbatido would be a better nickname for Contador if you look at his results. Although I know how Valverde got that nickname, so I don't need anyone to tell me why they call him that.

Wasn't that because he won every race he competed in in the youth categories?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Australia - Cadel Evans (the only logical choice, at least until Goss matures)
Belarus - Vasil Kiryienka (a renewable energy source in his own right)
Belgium - Philippe Gilbert (more of a threat on a wider range of races)
Catalunya - Joaquím Rodríguez (I'm going to get in some trouble for this)
Colombia - Sergio Luis Henao (winning the VaC at 22 = phenom)
Czech Republic - Roman Kreuziger (a good hope, perhaps not as much as was)
Denmark - Chris Anker Sørensen (a great climbing hand)
Euskadi - Igor Antón (this one might be even more trouble...)
France - David Moncoutié (always there or thereabouts)
Germany - Tony Martin (I want to say Wegmann, but common sense says otherwise)
Italy - Michele Scarponi (a genuine threat in almost any Italian race except sprints)
Kazakhstan - Alexander Vinokourov (obviously)
Luxembourg - Jempy Drucker (only kidding. no offence, Jempy!)
Netherlands - Marianne Vos (the best all-rounder in the world)
Norway - Thor Hushovd (at least for the time being)
Poland - Sylwester Szmyd (will be Kwiatkowski in a couple of years' time, mark my words)
Portugal - André Cardoso (one of the best climbers on the Continental circuit and one of the best mountain domestiques in the world on his day)
Russia - Denis Menchov (a king amongst men when he has it)
Slovakia - Peter Sagan (again, obviously)
Slovenia - Janez Brajkovic (again)
Spain - Alejandro Valverde (he is closer in stage races to Contador than Contador is to him in classics. Maybe in a couple of years of honing his one-day craft I'll promote Contador)
Sweden - Emma Johansson (more versatile and better than anybody else they have)
Switzerland - Fabian Cancellara (well, duh)
UK - Emma Pooley (a great climber, great hilly classic rider and a World TT champ to boot)
USA - Mara Abbott (one of the best climbers in the world, and genuinely, not just holding other people's wheels)
Venezuela - José Rujano (the world's third best climber!)

 

[El Pistolero]

I fail to see how people think one win in the Vuelta is soo close to 5 GTs. Also totally ignoring the time trial department.

The fact is, Contador made his first serious attempt at the classics this year and he did incredibly well.
The fact is, Contador has the potential to win LBL. Valverde can't win the Tour.

 

[Moondance]

Spain: Alberto Contador
Italy: Vincenzo Nibali
Belgium: Philippe Gilbert
France: Thomas Voeckler
United States: Tyler Farrar
Slovenia: Brajkovic
Denmark: Matti Breschel
Colombia: Jose Serpa
Poland: Szmyd
Ireland: Nicolas Roche
Portugal: Tiago Machado
New Zealand: Greg Henderson

Another few

Germany: Tony Martin
Australia: While I'm tempted to go Goss, I'll pick Evans anyway.
Netherlands: Robert Gesink
Norway: Edvald Boasson Hagen.

 

[theyoungest]

I fail to see how people think one win in the Vuelta is soo close to 5 GTs. Also totally ignoring the time trial department.

The fact is, Contador made his first serious attempt at the classics this year and he did incredibly well.
The fact is, Contador has the potential to win LBL. Valverde can't win the Tour.

Valverde more than equals Gilbert in the classics department. On top of that, he has won a GT, has multiple GT podiums and top-10 finishes, has won a few major one week tours...

So he's one of the best classics racers in the world who is also one of the best stage racers. Contador might have the potential to be all of that and more, he still has to do it. But to be an equally strong classics rider he already has one disadvantage: he doesn't have Valverde's sprinting talent.

 

[El Pistolero]

Valverde more than equals Gilbert in the classics department. On top of that, he has won a GT, has multiple GT podiums and top-10 finishes, has won a few major one week tours...

So he's one of the best classics racers in the world who is also one of the best stage racers. Contador might have the potential to be all of that and more, he still has to do it. But to be an equally strong classics rider he already has one disadvantage: he doesn't have Valverde's sprinting talent.

This isn't about Gilbert, so I don't know why everyone keeps bringing that up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r43JIBQo56s&feature=related

When Valverde can climb like that tell me. Otherwise there really isn't any discussion possible.

Who's the better climber?
Who's the better time trial specialist?
Who's the better stage racer?
Who has the best recuperation?
Who is 2 years younger?
Who has the best palmares?

I never knew it was possible to overrate LBL, but you guys just did it.

If you want to compare the gaps between them than please do so.

The gap as a stage racer: Valverde can never win the Giro or the Tour. Simply not good enough.
The gap in the classics: I can see Contador winning LBL.

I'd rather be able to win all Grand Tours and LBL instead of just LBL and la Vuelta.

By the way:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2itSMsLvRo

Where's Valverde? Is he really behind someone who's there for his very first time? Lame.

 

[c&cfan]

This isn't about Gilbert, so I don't know why everyone keeps bringing that up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r43JIBQo56s&feature=related

When Valverde can climb like that tell me. Otherwise there really isn't any discussion possible.

Who's the better climber?
Who's the better time trial specialist?
Who's the better stage racer?
Who has the best recuperation?
Who is 2 years younger?
Who has the best palmares?

I never knew it was possible to overrate LBL, but you guys just did it.

If you want to compare the gaps between them than please do so.

The gap as a stage racer: Valverde can never win the Giro or the Tour. Simply not good enough.
The gap in the classics: I can see Contador winning LBL.

I'd rather be able to win all Grand Tours and LBL instead of just LBL and la Vuelta.

if i had time and patience i would put a link of valverde's win in the first stage of the 2008 (i guess) tour. when gilbert does something similar (when gilbert is good enough) against those guys, please tell me. valverde does not need to atack like that all the time and then crack because he can do it (win) in the sprints. gilbert atacks (and cracks a lot against real champions) because that is the only way that he might win.

when we choose these riders, that are about the same age (more or less), we look at palmares. and looking at it, bonnen is so much better than gilbert!!!!

basso is much older.. but he is still so much better than nibali!!!!

chosing nibali over basso and gilbert over bonnen is just kid's fanboyism. sorry. there's no logical explanation.

p.s=even a blind person can see how much better is valverde compared to gilbert. contador is..unique. but so is valverde. let's wait for conti to be at his 30s. (obvious conti as a better palmares. but winning sprints and MTF is just impossible! but not for piti.. thats what makes him amazing.)

 

[El Pistolero]

And again someone starting about Gilbert even though it doesn't have anything to do with the discussion.

It's pretty simple, Gilbert has been better than Boonen the last 2 years. I'm not going to rate Cunego above Gilbert just because of his palmares. We're living in the present and in the present Cunego sucks donkey balls. To give you a nice analogy.

At least try to type Boonen's name correctly.

Here's another news flash for the Valverde fans who like to thrash on Gilbert, he's banned for a reason: his dog doped.

It seems like everyone here is living in the past. What's next? Schleck sucks because he became 12th in the Tour of 2008?

And I didn't pick Nibali, I picked Basso. Not that I rate someone who only has one GT win that high(a little bit too obvious in the Giro of 2006 Basso ), but it's the best they have after Ricco burned him self again.

Anyone saying Gilbert hasn't made progress since 2008 is the only blind fool here.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Here's another news flash for the Valverde fans who like to thrash on Gilbert, he's banned for a reason: his dog doped.

And yet only one of the three people being brought up has failed a test, and it's not Piti.

I noted in my list that in two or three years Michał Kwiatkowski will be better than Sylwester Szmyd. But until then I'm putting Szmyd down as better, because right now, he is.

Contador has the potential in the Classics to bridge that gap to Valverde's achievements. Far more so than Valverde has the potential to bridge the gap to Contador's GT achievements. But until Contador does start to bridge that gap, then those who want to say Valverde is better overall are well within their rights. They just might have to eat crow in a month's time.

 

[c&cfan]

And again someone starting about Gilbert even though it doesn't have anything to do with the discussion.

It's pretty simple, Gilbert has been better than Boonen the last 2 years. I'm not going to rate Cunego above Gilbert just because of his palmares. We're living in the present and in the present Cunego sucks donkey balls. To give you a nice analogy.

At least try to type Boonen's name correctly.

Here's another news flash for the Valverde fans who like to thrash on Gilbert, he's banned for a reason: his dog doped.

It seems like everyone here is living in the past. What's next? Schleck sucks because he became 12th in the Tour of 2008?

And I didn't pick Nibali, I picked Basso. Not that I rate someone who only has one GT win that high(a little bit too obvious in the Giro of 2006 Basso ), but it's the best they have after Ricco burned him self again.

Anyone saying Gilbert hasn't made progress since 2008 is the only blind fool here.

so what? are you going to say that he should watch his dog 24/7?

my friend, that can happen to anyone.

so gilbert was slighty better in the last 2 years. boonen was much better in the last 7 years in a way that puts gilbert as a 4th tier cyclist. (are you forgetting the problems that boonen had in the last 2 years?) boonen is better. way better. he already showed that.

 

[El Pistolero]

so what? are you going to say that he should watch his dog 24/7?

my friend, that can happen to anyone.

so gilbert was slighty better in the last 2 years. boonen was much better in the last 7 years in a way that puts gilbert as a 4th tier cyclist. (are you forgetting the problems that boonen had in the last 2 years?) boonen is better. way better. he already showed that.

Sniffing coke is his own god damn fault and it didn't affect his season in 2009 all that much anyway.

Slightly better?

You call two Giro di Lombardia's, 1 Paris-Tours,AGR, Montepaschi strade Bianche and 2 stages at the Vuelta and one at the Giro slightly better than Paris-Roubaix and Kuurne-Brussel-Kuurne?
Lol.

His knee problems in 2010 were after the spring season anyway, so that's no excuse either. It's not like he was ever going to win Lombardia. And it's not like Gilbert has had cancer. Oh wait, he did.

And about his dog doping.. That was clearly a reference to something pippo.

This thread is about who's the best cyclist now, not who the best cyclist was 6 years ago, otherwise I might as well pick Eddy Merckx.

 

[El Pistolero]

And yet only one of the three people being brought up has failed a test, and it's not Piti.

I noted in my list that in two or three years Michał Kwiatkowski will be better than Sylwester Szmyd. But until then I'm putting Szmyd down as better, because right now, he is.

Contador has the potential in the Classics to bridge that gap to Valverde's achievements. Far more so than Valverde has the potential to bridge the gap to Contador's GT achievements. But until Contador does start to bridge that gap, then those who want to say Valverde is better overall are well within their rights. They just might have to eat crow in a month's time.

Contador will only race FW, if you think they'll have to eat crow if he'll win that than they might as well already start.

What has failing a test got to do with anything? Valverde doped, end of story. Gilbert? There's no reason to think for now, but feel free to believe he dopes, that's your own right.

 

[c&cfan]

Sniffing coke is his own god damn fault and it didn't affect his season in 2009 all that much anyway.

Slightly better?

You call two Giro di Lombardia's, 1 Paris-Tours,AGR, Montepaschi strade Bianche and 2 stages at the Vuelta and one at the Giro slightly better than Paris-Roubaix and Kuurne-Brussel-Kuurne?
Lol.

His knee problems in 2010 were after the spring season anyway, so that's no excuse either. It's not like he was ever going to win Lombardia. And it's not like Gilbert has had cancer. Oh wait, he did.

And about his dog doping.. That was clearly a reference to something pippo.

This thread is about who's the best cyclist now, not who the best cyclist was 6 years ago, otherwise I might as well pick Eddy Merckx.

eddy merckx?why? please post only that name in the clinic. he isnt even in the top 5 of the best ever. he is the dirtiest ever.

didnt boonen also won 2 vuelta stages? but that does not matter. gilbert wins preparation races and puts some nice atacks. that's it. bonnen is a champion that has everyone on his wheel. gilbert isnt there.. but maybe he will be.

also, sniffing coke wasnt boonen's fault. what are you going to say now? some stupid thing like he knew it was coke and he did that on purpose? c'mon man.. grow up.