Big George testified he and lance supplied each other with EPO

[FoxxyBrown1111]

I tought in the USA, the state attorneys and the clients lawyers choose who will be in/out of a jury.

So in a GJ, only the state attorney decides, right? If so, the game is won. Armstrong will be indicted.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

An indictment only means that there is sufficient evidence for a trial. It doesn't mean anyone is guilty.

 

[MarkvW]

Indictment

But isn´t it so, that Armstrongs attorneys had a say who´s in the GJ? If so, be sure some real fanboys are in it. That would make it a close call.

Otherwise, once Armstrong is indicted, there should be no need for Novitsky to make a deal, right? I mean Armstrong will be up for grabs for the jury, because the media will influence them into the right direction

It is said, not without reason, that an American prosecutor could get a Grand Jury to indict a ham sandwich. Good prosecutors (like the one in this case) don't indict ham sandwiches because they could never convince a jury of twelve ordinary people to find a ham sandwich guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

Nobody knows enough to predict when anyone will be indicted. Nobody knows what the charges will be. Anybody who pretends otherwise is just guessing.

 

[Topangarider]

I tought in the USA, the state attorneys and the clients lawyers choose who will be in/out of a jury.

So in a GJ, only the state attorney decides, right? If so, the game is won. Armstrong will be indicted.

This is a federal grand jury. It hears evidence in a variety of investigations/cases and from time to time the federal prosecutor will ask for an indictment in one or more of the cases in front of that grand jury. If the jury votes to indict then the case will go to trial or be settled with a plea.
That's a quick overview

 

[Hugh Januss]

It is said, not without reason, that an American prosecutor could get a Grand Jury to indict a ham sandwich. Good prosecutors (like the one in this case) don't indict ham sandwiches because they could never convince a jury of twelve ordinary people to find a ham sandwich guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

Nobody knows enough to predict when anyone will be indicted. Nobody knows what the charges will be. Anybody who pretends otherwise is just guessing.

Are you a lawyer in real life? Because you seem to have a grasp on the process of all this. Also you seem at times to be tediously argumentative, no offense.

 

[Van der Slagmollen]

There's the rub:we are all guessing[speculating]on this.It still allows an entertaining discussion though.

 

[VeloMaster]

more clarification on US grand jury system

But isn´t it so, that Armstrongs attorneys had a say who´s in the GJ? If so, be sure some real fanboys are in it. That would make it a close call.

Otherwise, once Armstrong is indicted, there should be no need for Novitsky to make a deal, right? I mean Armstrong will be up for grabs for the jury, because the media will influence them into the right direction

To address Foxy's question/point:

No. A grand jury is drawn from a pool of eligible citizens by the court and neither the defense nor the state prosecutor has any say in its composition. You are thinking of the trial jury, formally known as a petit jury. In the latter case, the actual criminal trial phase, both the state and the defense are allowed some say in the composition of the jury. However, the rules are complex and not absolute.

Suffice to say, that in a grand jury neither side has any influence on its composition. As for the ham sandwich saying, I can speak from personal experience that most grand jurors follow the advice or requests of the prosecutor. On my grand jury most lacked the education or sophistication or, perhaps, the confidence to think for themselves. So the "ham sandwich" usually gets indicted.

Fortunately, the rules for the trial phase before the petit jury are less unfair to the defense. But in the grand jury the state holds most of the cards.

 

[Merckx index]

It is said, not without reason, that an American prosecutor could get a Grand Jury to indict a ham sandwich.

Which is basically what Bert wants CAS to do.

 

[tinga1]

Which is basically what Bert wants CAS to do.

nice! vvvvvvvvvv

 

[Hugh Januss]

Which is basically what Bert wants CAS to do.

Actually a ham sandwich comes from Hog, what Contador is talking about is Bull.

 

[MarkvW]

Which is basically what Bert wants CAS to do.

If the ham sandwich has clenbutorol in it, that's good enough for me.

 

[Exroadman24902]

big george is keeping everyone guessing. Most seem unaware of why...I won't point it out to you if you can't see it

 

[sniper]

big george is keeping everyone guessing. Most seem unaware of why...I won't point it out to you if you can't see it

that's unfair

 

[Runitout]

big george is keeping everyone guessing. Most seem unaware of why...I won't point it out to you if you can't see it

I understand that George is a lovely guy, but scheming mastermind he is not.

Maybe give it a rest.

 

[dancing on pedals]

I understand that George is a lovely guy, but scheming mastermind he is not.

Maybe give it a rest.

not sure about that, a lot of "very quiet, always respectful, asset to the community types" have commited a lot of dreadful crimes.
He has survived at the top of his profession for a long time so I doubt he is as as saintly or as lovely as you suggest
thanks

 

[Magic Spanner]

not sure about that, a lot of "very quiet, always respectful, asset to the community types" have commited a lot of dreadful crimes.
He has survived at the top of his profession for a long time so I doubt he is as as saintly or as lovely as you suggest
thanks

I think the lesson here is that nice guys can be dopers too. The pro peleton in Georges time doped. A range of characters in there.

Unpleasant bullies like lance. Likeable guys like Jens. Idiots like Ricco and Virenque. Broody guys like Jan and Marco. And nice guys like George.

All dopers. All cheats.

 

[zigmeister]

You implied your knowledge of the "entire case" in post 433. You told this forum what that entire case was. I'm glad to see that you acknowledge that you do not know what the government's case is.

I don't understand your criticism of a case that you don't know . . .

Not implied knowledge, common sense from basic facts.

The US government will never bring LA up on charges of doping.

Why? Because you need something more than Betsy, or Landis, or Floyd claiming they either saw him directly, heard him admit, or heard from somebody else that he doped. Not good enough by a long shot.

You need irrefutable evidence, such as ones we have and know today. Hmmmm.something like a blood and urine test showing clear positive results based off an exact protocol that cannot be questioned. The US Government doesn't have that. They have nothing but a couple of former dopers and liars claiming they saw him do it, or had some involvement.

George himself, or lawyers from both sides have claimed that he say Lance dope. That is all crap from 60 minutes who used some anonymous NYT reporter's claims, which who is that person by the way? Can we get a name/source please?

Hey, maybe Lance did...but are you going to put your faith in Landis, Tyler or Betsy to get a jury to convict a national hero on straight doping? Nope.

So, they result to the international intrigue and deception of taking the USPS money under false pretenses, or taxation issues etc....to get Armstrong on something. But, doping will never be the charge.

Come back and read this post later on, or bookmark it. Maybe it will all be clear to you then.

Getting a grand jury to "indict" somebody, so they can actually formally charge and attempt to prosecute Lance in a trial (which they have plans to do clearly), is pretty simple and a monkey could handle. But they sure are taking a long time to get this case put together if it is a stone cold lock.

It tells anybody with a law background and knowledge, the US Government is really grasping at straws to come up with enough circumstantial evidence, or testimony to then present to the GJ and get the green light to take Lance Armstrong on in a real trial.

Good luck with that US Government. It got them real far with major league baseball. Oh wait, it got them nowhere.

 

[Race Radio]

Random Babble

If it helps you deal with the collapse of the myth then by all means keep writing this garbage.....it will still not change reality.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Not implied knowledge, common sense from basic facts.

The US government will never bring LA up on charges of doping.

Why? Because you need something more than Betsy, or Landis, or Floyd claiming they either saw him directly, heard him admit, or heard from somebody else that he doped. Not good enough by a long shot.

You need irrefutable evidence, such as ones we have and know today. Hmmmm.something like a blood and urine test showing clear positive results based off an exact protocol that cannot be questioned. The US Government doesn't have that. They have nothing but a couple of former dopers and liars claiming they saw him do it, or had some involvement.

George himself, or lawyers from both sides have claimed that he say Lance dope. That is all crap from 60 minutes who used some anonymous NYT reporter's claims, which who is that person by the way? Can we get a name/source please?

Hey, maybe Lance did...but are you going to put your faith in Landis, Tyler or Betsy to get a jury to convict a national hero on straight doping? Nope.

So, they result to the international intrigue and deception of taking the USPS money under false pretenses, or taxation issues etc....to get Armstrong on something. But, doping will never be the charge.

Come back and read this post later on, or bookmark it. Maybe it will all be clear to you then.

Getting a grand jury to "indict" somebody, so they can actually formally charge and attempt to prosecute Lance in a trial (which they have plans to do clearly), is pretty simple and a monkey could handle. But they sure are taking a long time to get this case put together if it is a stone cold lock.

It tells anybody with a law background and knowledge, the US Government is really grasping at straws to come up with enough circumstantial evidence, or testimony to then present to the GJ and get the green light to take Lance Armstrong on in a real trial.

Good luck with that US Government. It got them real far with major league baseball. Oh wait, it got them nowhere.

The reason "the US government will never bring LA up on charges of doping", is because no such law exists.

However there are lots of laws that exist for the transportation and distribution of non prescribed drugs, lots of laws for financial malpractice, lots of laws for lying in front of a GJ or to a Federal Officer.

 

[Topangarider]

Not implied knowledge, common sense from basic facts.

The US government will never bring LA up on charges of doping..

Common sense, gee that's never led people to incorrect assumptions or faulty conclusions. And as for "basic facts" I doubt that the public knows most of the facts that have been presented to the GJ or gathered by investigators. You can't even state the names of witnesses correctly.

You also show your complete lack of credibility and ignorance when you state that LA will not be charged with (doping) an offense that doesn't even exist in our statutes or criminal code.

 

[Benotti69]

There must be something not right between GH and LA that we dont know about, because LA never liked it when guys left his team, so why did GH, his 'brother' not sign for Astana or RadioSmack?

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

There must be something not right between GH and LA that we dont know about, because LA never liked it when guys left his team, so why did GH, his 'brother' not sign for Astana or RadioSmack?

My understanding was the GH wanted a deal where he was the clothing supplier as well. Couldn't happen on RS. I may be wrong, though.

 

[mewmewmew13]

I had the sense that there might still be some bad feelings from the Tour stage that GH just missed the yellow jersey by seconds....folks pointed to Garmin but still think maybe there was more there.

 

[Magic Spanner]

If GH really is a nice guy the reason is obvious.

Had enough of LA and his domineering persona.

 

[Darryl Webster]

Validation feels so great....the cake is baking well and just got some icing...boy am I looking foward to the Chery on top.