Big George testified he and lance supplied each other with EPO

[mtb Dad]

Hopefully we find the builder.

My sentiments exactly. Psst, Lance, time to roll over on Hein.

Just do it.

 

[mtb Dad]

So let me play devil's advocate. Out of all the **** this country needs to address, the most important thing this prosecutor has to do is go after an entertainer who used performance enhancing drugs (hello, that would be all of the music world wouldn't it?)

This guy is doing nothing more than looking for a head to mount on his wall. It's just like the BS congress enganged in when they hauled baseball players in front of congress to address the terrible problem of drug use in baseball. Again, this is what you bozos do in a country where Wall St. drove us off a cliff, where our health care system is a travesty and our infrastructure is crumbling?

Sorry kids, this is a complete waste of time. Who the **** cares?

Oh and before you say I'm an LA fanboy, please see if you can use the search feature for my posts and read what I think of LA.

A country is an abstract concept that acts on myths and beliefs. Ever wondered if it got driven off a cliff BECAUSE those myths are based on 'win at all costs', 'cheat if you're serious', etc.?

If you don't want the next Wall Street crash, start holding elites to account.

Starting with where people learn to compete. In sport.

 

[red_flanders]

I'm baffled by what seems to be today's tactic of smearing 60 minutes. We all expected the witness smear campaign, but it's weird watching the followers march along in lockstep condemning 60 minutes, when the show hasn't even aired. When you see the tweets saying "I will never watch that show again", it's just weird. Pretty soon, they will have to boycott every media outlet and unplug their computers.

It was baffling to me as well until I read up on some studies on cognitive dissonance.

http://healthland.time.com/2011/05/17/apocalypse-now-why-believers-will-grow-stronger-when-the-world-doesnt-end/

...according to Festinger's theory of cognitive dissonance, which predicts that the more we have given and invested in a particular point of view, the less likely we will be to abandon it in the face of contrary evidence. It's the same cognitive process that kicks in when we are made to behave in ways that are inconsistent with our beliefs; in the face of that disharmony, we often change our beliefs to be congruent with our behaviors and self-perception. Cognitive dissonance is uncomfortable and leads people to seek resolution.

 

[Anonymous]

Right now, the greatest sport in the world is searching for @lancearmstrong on twitter and then throwing insults.

 

[Scansorial]

I assume he could take the 5th during the GJ testimony?

Any legal experts know the answer to this? George always struck me as the type who would just not comment like Mark McGwire did. How did they actually pry this out of him? That's one of the more interesting parts of the whole story to me.

 

[Anonymous]

It was baffling to me as well until I read up on some studies on cognitive dissonance.

http://healthland.time.com/2011/05/17/apocalypse-now-why-believers-will-grow-stronger-when-the-world-doesnt-end/

+1

The more evidence, the more your illogical belief is validated...its a strange phenomenon.

 

[webvan]

Right now, the greatest sport in the world is searching for @lancearmstrong on twitter and then throwing insults.

This just in http://twitter.com/#!/lancearmstrong/status/71985135855214592 - it seems the GH revelation shut him up on the rest though, no more taunting, who would have thought that would ever happen!

 

[Oldman]

Any legal experts know the answer to this? George always struck me as the type who would just not comment like Mark McGwire did. How did they actually pry this out of him? That's one of the more interesting parts of the whole story to me.

Doubt he initiated any of this publc disclosure or it surely would be paired with more personal justifications and a half-hearted apology to his "fans". Somebody leaked info from his gj testimony. We'd all like to know the prosecution's strategy on this stuff: Lance is meat but who else are the after via this type of pressure?

 

[richwagmn]

Any legal experts know the answer to this? George always struck me as the type who would just not comment like Mark McGwire did. How did they actually pry this out of him? That's one of the more interesting parts of the whole story to me.

From Wikipedia:

Grand juries, which return indictments in many criminal cases, are composed of a jury of peers and operate in closed deliberation proceedings; they are given specific instructions regarding the law by the judge. Many constitutional restrictions do not apply during grand jury proceedings. For example, the exclusionary rule does not apply to evidence presented to a grand jury; the exclusionary rule states that evidence obtained in violation of the Fourth, Fifth or Sixth amendments cannot be introduced in court.[2] Also, defendants do not have the right to have their attorneys present in grand jury rooms during hearings; they would normally have such a right during questioning by the police while in custody. The grand jury indictment clause of the Fifth Amendment has not been incorporated under the Fourteenth Amendment; in other words, it has not been ruled applicable to the states. States are free to abolish grand juries, and many (though not all) have replaced them with preliminary hearings.[3]

Sorry for the long paste. If I'm reading that right, the 5th does not apply to grand jury proceedings.

 

[Allen H]

Hincapie's statement after GJ leak is very McGwire-like: "I wish we could focus on the future instead of the past" was McGwire's way of attempting to dodge answering Qs about PEDs.

 

[Scansorial]

Doubt he initiated any of this publc disclosure or it surely would be paired with more personal justifications and a half-hearted apology to his "fans". Somebody leaked info from his gj testimony. We'd all like to know the prosecution's strategy on this stuff: Lance is meat but who else are the after via this type of pressure?

I know George didn't leak it. That wasn't the question. I was saying that it must have taken some pretty good effort even from the feds to get him to talk.

 

[oldschoolnik]

I don't think so.

That would defy all sorts of credulity.

Maybe Roger Clemens is on the horn with Armstrong saying, "Tell him he 'misremembered.' It worked real well for me."

Possible Fabiani/Lance Camp Reply:
"George was pressured and threatened by overzealous Federal Prosecutors who overstepped their bounds and threatened him with incarceration--unless he named Lance --their big fish and target - in that situation, people would say almost anything"

 

[MarkvW]

Any legal experts know the answer to this? George always struck me as the type who would just not comment like Mark McGwire did. How did they actually pry this out of him? That's one of the more interesting parts of the whole story to me.

Immunized testimony.

 

[MarkvW]

I know George didn't leak it. That wasn't the question. I was saying that it must have taken some pretty good effort even from the feds to get him to talk.

It was probably two parts. The first part was immunity. The second part was a long series of questions designed (a) to corroborate the evidence they already had; and (b) to show the witness that they know an awful lot about him already.

Who knows? They may have had George's dealer already.

 

[frenchfry]

The real question is this: Will LA's propaganda machine go after Hincapie?

I think he will.

I would guess that the news of Hincapie's admission will lead to a change in the PR strategy. Up to now it has been scorched earth destruction of anyone who questions the myth, including reputable media outlets. Now Hincapie coming out gives enormous credibility to the reality of systematic doping, from now on there is a big risk in the smear tactic strategy blowing up in their faces (excepting the cognitively dissonant). Lancey-poo is probably getting his team together to figure out how to deal with this. After all, he has to be concerned about his future cash flow.

 

[MarkvW]

From Wikipedia:

Grand juries, which return indictments in many criminal cases, are composed of a jury of peers and operate in closed deliberation proceedings; they are given specific instructions regarding the law by the judge. Many constitutional restrictions do not apply during grand jury proceedings. For example, the exclusionary rule does not apply to evidence presented to a grand jury; the exclusionary rule states that evidence obtained in violation of the Fourth, Fifth or Sixth amendments cannot be introduced in court.[2] Also, defendants do not have the right to have their attorneys present in grand jury rooms during hearings; they would normally have such a right during questioning by the police while in custody. The grand jury indictment clause of the Fifth Amendment has not been incorporated under the Fourteenth Amendment; in other words, it has not been ruled applicable to the states. States are free to abolish grand juries, and many (though not all) have replaced them with preliminary hearings.[3]

Sorry for the long paste. If I'm reading that right, the 5th does not apply to grand jury proceedings.

The Fifth Amendment ABSOLUTELY applies to grand jury proceedings. Look up "Star Chamber" in Wikipedia. Read Murphy v. Waterfront Commission--a US Supreme Court case, if you want to learn more.

 

[jobiwan]

Forgive me if I've missed something, but is George racing today? I thought I read something about him resigning.....

Then I said:

Can't imagine he could start, he's in a tough situation whatever he does.

I was in fact wrong. Hincapie's racing today, and he's in the early break.

 

[mewmewmew13]

Then I said:


I was in fact wrong. Hincapie's racing today, and he's in the early break.

I just saw that on the live feed. I'm amazed...or maybe not. What else was he going to do I guess!?

and I'm still waiting for another shoe to drop

 

[mewmewmew13]

Then I said:


I was in fact wrong. Hincapie's racing today, and he's in the early break.

I just saw that on the live report. I'm amazed...but then again what would he do...guess he just keeps on until something stops him or another development.

..and I am still waiting for another shoe to drop.

 

[D-Queued]

Then I said:


I was in fact wrong. Hincapie's racing today, and he's in the early break.

He can't get away from here fast enough.

Dave.

 

[dbrower]

From Wikipedia:

Sorry for the long paste. If I'm reading that right, the 5th does not apply to grand jury proceedings.

Covered before, but to summarize from my experience being on a Grand Jury. Yes, witnesses can take the 5th. They can be offered immunity if the questioning DA wants the testimony more than charges against the witness. If the witness takes the immunity, he must answer the questions, and answer truthfully. If he does not answer truthfully, he can be charged with perjury. This is what got Bonds, who had immunity. If they refuse answer despite being given immunity, they can be thrown in jail for contempt. This is what happened to Anderson in the Bonds case.

If a witness does not take immunity, they can't be forced to answer questions. They can still be indicted based on what other witnesses have said.

Investigations usually start at the bottom, where immunity is given more freely to get information on higher ups. Someone who is a real potential target isn't called in until there is enough information to ask meaningful questions that will lead somewhere, either to admissions of own behavior, or actions of higher ups.

Lance would not be called until the case against him is very solid, and they thought he could she light on those higher up the chain than him. That might be anywhere, and I won't speculate.

I think Armstrong probably would be called at some point, both to try to get others, and to see if he was going to fall into a perjury trap.

-dB

 

[richwagmn]

Covered before, but to summarize from my experience being on a Grand Jury. Yes, witnesses can take the 5th. They can be offered immunity if the questioning DA wants the testimony more than charges against the witness. If the witness takes the immunity, he must answer the questions, and answer truthfully. If he does not answer truthfully, he can be charged with perjury. This is what got Bonds, who had immunity. If they refuse answer despite being given immunity, they can be thrown in jail for contempt. This is what happened to Anderson in the Bonds case.

If a witness does not take immunity, they can't be forced to answer questions. They can still be indicted based on what other witnesses have said.

Investigations usually start at the bottom, where immunity is given more freely to get information on higher ups. Someone who is a real potential target isn't called in until there is enough information to ask meaningful questions that will lead somewhere, either to admissions of own behavior, or actions of higher ups.

Lance would not be called until the case against him is very solid, and they thought he could she light on those higher up the chain than him. That might be anywhere, and I won't speculate.

I think Armstrong probably would be called at some point, both to try to get others, and to see if he was going to fall into a perjury trap.

-dB

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[ManInFull]

This just in http://twitter.com/#!/lancearmstrong/status/71985135855214592 - it seems the GH revelation shut him up on the rest though, no more taunting, who would have thought that would ever happen!

Has anyone from Lance's organization or even his attorney said anything about GH?

 

[mewmewmew13]

It was so exhilarating when the GH news came out yesterday.
Since George's tweet, things have seemed to quiet down to a low murmur where his confession is concerned. I realize that he must be downplaying this and trying to stay out of the craziness, but now it feels like maybe this didn't really happen....

Is there a source and is it to be trusted? Will this become clear after the 60 minutes tomorrow?

Please tell me it's still for real...

 

[jobiwan]

It was so exhilarating when the GH news came out yesterday.
Since George's tweet, things have seemed to quiet down to a low murmur where his confession is concerned. I realize that he must be downplaying this and trying to stay out of the craziness, but now it feels like maybe this didn't really happen....

Is there a source and is it to be trusted? Will this become clear after the 60 minutes tomorrow?

Please tell me it's still for real...

Latest tweet for Big George (1 hour ago)

Seriously moved by all the encouragement and support along the road. You really motivated me today. Thank you.

I can't imagine this was a false report. I can sense a lot of real gratitude in that statement. Sounds like he needed a serious pick-me-up, which wouldn't be needed if the report was false.