Big George testified he and lance supplied each other with EPO

[Mellow Velo]

Yes.
Harmon just came out of the closet and called Armstrong a fraud.........well, subject to confirmation.
That surely means the end!

 

[barn yard]

well, strong words for harmon!

 

[ChrisE]

The problem is Kelly is part of the omerta. Of course he is wavering on this.

 

[Anonymous]

I haven't ever anticipated watching a stage of the TOC like the one today. P&P and that idiot Bobke are going to have to dance like peepshow w****s to keep this one tied down.

I am betting on the "Hincapie didn't confirm, so we need to wait" type of denial. I don't believe that any one of them has the intelligence or honesty to say what needs to be said, but maybe I am wrong.

 

[The Hitch]

I haven't ever anticipated watching a stage of the TOC like the one today. P&P and that idiot Bobke are going to have to dance like peepshow w****s to keep this one tied down.

I am betting on the "Hincapie didn't confirm, so we need to wait" type of denial. I don't believe that any one of them has the intelligence or honesty to say what needs to be said, but maybe I am wrong.

Judging on yesterday theyll just ignore it and perhaps take another cheap shot at Hamilton without mentioning LA.

 

[richwagmn]

This has to be the coup de gras. I don’t know how LA can survive this.

I’m not surprised that George testified this way, at all. He’s slowly turning himself into a businessman with his clothing line, and for the last five years has been trying to find capital investors for his Pla d'Adet resort. Tell the truth now, and he can likely come out okay, go down with the ship and it’s likely a really long ride to the bottom.

I'm not sure I would ascribe any higher motives to George for his testimony. Lying to the feds is just plain stupid. They don't like it. George isn't stupid.

Armstrong will because he has too. JB if he's called to testify. I can't see why any other rider would carry any water for lance for right now.

I do wonder if the case stops with LA? Why not go after everyone else on his team? IF they're truly concerned about doping in cycling (hint, they're not), then everyone on Postal, Discovery should be prosecuted. Curiously, I don't see any posters calling for this.

People just want LA's head.

 

[Anonymous]

"At times it felt like criticising Armstrong was akin to arguing that all children should be rounded up and drowned."

http://www.cyclesportmag.com/news-and-comment/lance-armstrong-the-endgame-begins/

Freaking BRILLIANT!!

 

[SpeedWay]

You guys are sick.

Common trait of all haters - but the entertainment value is priceless.

 

[spetsa]

Well, what we do know is that in the US between 2001-2010, the USADA tested Big George 38 times while they tested LA only 22 times . . . I rest my case.

So..are you saying that it took more work for USAC to cover up George's fraud than Lance's?

 

[Berzin]

I do wonder if the case stops with LA? Why not go after everyone else on his team? IF they're truly concerned about doping in cycling (hint, they're not), then everyone on Postal, Discovery should be prosecuted. Curiously, I don't see any posters calling for this.

People just want LA's head.

No. The other riders just went along with the program. They are guilty of doping but Armstrong was the instigator, the prime mover of the organized doping program.

He lead the charge, so you cannot say the other riders are just as guilty. They are guilty, but not like Lance. And it's a lot more than just about the doping. It's the financial shenanigans and the international PED trafficking.

So if you want to assign levels of guilt, Armstrong is on top, along with Bruyneel and Dr. Ferrari. They are the Unholy Trinity in all this. The other riders are below them.

Some strong words from Sean Kelly and David Harmon on Eurosport's live giro coverage...

As for the comments made on Eurosport, Sean Kelly is taking a "wait and see" approach because he apparently needs to see what is revealed during the "60 Minutes" program tomorrow.

But David Harmon's comments were interesting. He sees Hamilton and Landis as "thoroughly dislikeable" characters (meaning "no integrity"), but the statements by Hincapie have made him think that it is "the end of the end" for Armstrong, as opposed to the "beginning of the end".

I think Harmon's most damning statements were about how Armstrong duped the cancer community. This bothers him more than the cheating on a sporting level. I personally think they both rank right up there alonside each other, but everyone has their opinion and I do see his point.

Sean Kelly can always be counted on to have no opinion about doping in the pro ranks. I don't know why they even bother asking him about it.

 

[TheMight]

No. The other riders just went along with the program. They are guilty of doping but Armstrong was the instigator, the prime mover of the organized doping program.
...
I think his most powerful statements were about how Armstrong duped the cancer community. This bothers him more than the cheating on a sporting level.

And that's all collateral damage. The crimes are fraud, defrauding the US government, drug trafficking, money laundering, corruption...

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/21/s...n-could-harm-armstrong-if-he-is-indicted.html

The only thing that matters to the sport from all this is if the UCI complied. If there is strong evidence of that and at least 2 parties are claiming he paid to disappear a failed test and had warnings about tests I don't see how the sport continues as it is.

 

[ChrisE]

Since apparently GH supplied LA with EPO as well, does that mean he is a target of the investigation as well? Why not?

 

[cat6cx]

I think it's a little interesting that the first 3 pages of comments after the Velonews article about GH are all slamming Floyd and Tyler. No mention of George. GH is going to be tough to deny.

 

[Magic Spanner]

I agree with Harmon. The crime of duping cancer survivors outweighs the crime of duping bike fans and sponsors. But I love cycling and I hate Armstrong's take on the sport.

It is the "End of the end - not a nail in the coffin but a giant tent peg in the coffin"

Quality. That's why he's a commentator!

No. The other riders just went along with the program. They are guilty of doping but Armstrong was the instigator, the prime mover of the organized doping program.

He lead the charge, so you cannot say the other riders are just as guilty. They are guilty, but not like Lance. And it's a lot more than just about the doping. It's the financial shenanigans and the international PED trafficking.

So if you want to assign levels of guilt, Armstrong is on top, along with Bruyneel and Dr. Ferrari. They are the Unholy Trinity in all this. The other riders are below them.




As for the comments made on Eurosport, Sean Kelly is taking a "wait and see" approach because he apparently needs to see what is revealed during the "60 Minutes" program tomorrow.

But David Harmon's comments were interesting. He sees Hamilton and Landis as "thoroughly dislikeable" characters (meaning "no integrity"), but the statements by Hincapie have made him think that it is "the end of the end" for Armstrong, as opposed to the "beginning of the end".

I think Harmon's most damning statements were about how Armstrong duped the cancer community. This bothers him more than the cheating on a sporting level. I personally think they both rank right up there alonside each other, but everyone has their opinion and I do see his point.

Sean Kelly can always be counted on to have no opinion about doping in the pro ranks. I don't know why they even bother asking him about it.

 

[Ferminal]

No. The other riders just went along with the program. They are guilty of doping but Armstrong was the instigator, the prime mover of the organized doping program.

He lead the charge, so you cannot say the other riders are just as guilty. They are guilty, but not like Lance. And it's a lot more than just about the doping. It's the financial shenanigans and the international PED trafficking.

So if you want to assign levels of guilt, Armstrong is on top, along with Bruyneel and Dr. Ferrari. They are the Unholy Trinity in all this. The other riders are below them.




As for the comments made on Eurosport, Sean Kelly is taking a "wait and see" approach because he apparently needs to see what is revealed during the "60 Minutes" program tomorrow.

But David Harmon's comments were interesting. He sees Hamilton and Landis as "thoroughly dislikeable" characters (meaning "no integrity"), but the statements by Hincapie have made him think that it is "the end of the end" for Armstrong, as opposed to the "beginning of the end".

I think Harmon's most damning statements were about how Armstrong duped the cancer community. This bothers him more than the cheating on a sporting level. I personally think they both rank right up there alonside each other, but everyone has their opinion and I do see his point.

Sean Kelly can always be counted on to have no opinion about doping in the pro ranks. I don't know why they even bother asking him about it.

Harmon is a walking contradiction, but I think a lot of the times he's genuinely speaking his mind. He probably tried to ignore the truth rather than actively sweep things under the rug.

Then there is Liggett who is obviously on the payroll, but he's at least a doping apologist in general.

 

[Anonymous]

Since apparently GH supplied LA with EPO as well, does that mean he is a target of the investigation as well? Why not?

Probably offered immunity, which is why he is keeping his mouth shut.

 

[ChrisE]

Probably offered immunity, which is why he is keeping his mouth shut.

Good call, thanks.

But, it would seem that all that have testified have been offered some type of immunity, and some are talking. Taking drugs without a prescription is a crime, right?

 

[larryduff]

Excuse my ignorance but has Armstrong testified himself to the GJ? If not will he testify in the future?

 

[Benotti69]

No. The other riders just went along with the program. They are guilty of doping but Armstrong was the instigator, the prime mover of the organized doping program.

He lead the charge, so you cannot say the other riders are just as guilty. They are guilty, but not like Lance. And it's a lot more than just about the doping. It's the financial shenanigans and the international PED trafficking.

So if you want to assign levels of guilt, Armstrong is on top, along with Bruyneel and Dr. Ferrari. They are the Unholy Trinity in all this. The other riders are below them.




As for the comments made on Eurosport, Sean Kelly is taking a "wait and see" approach because he apparently needs to see what is revealed during the "60 Minutes" program tomorrow.

But David Harmon's comments were interesting. He sees Hamilton and Landis as "thoroughly dislikeable" characters (meaning "no integrity"), but the statements by Hincapie have made him think that it is "the end of the end" for Armstrong, as opposed to the "beginning of the end".

I think Harmon's most damning statements were about how Armstrong duped the cancer community. This bothers him more than the cheating on a sporting level. I personally think they both rank right up there alonside each other, but everyone has their opinion and I do see his point.

Sean Kelly can always be counted on to have no opinion about doping in the pro ranks. I don't know why they even bother asking him about it.

at least he isn't being a hypocrite and i respect that.

 

[Berzin]

At least he isn't being a hypocrite and I respect that.

Why? Is being a hypocrite number one on the banned unforgivable personality disorders list?

As standards for human comportment get lower and lower, flaws become virtues. Statements like the one quoted above cements my premise.

 

[ChrisE]

at least he isn't being a hypocrite and i respect that.

Yeah, just keep quiet and enable the omerta to continue.

You guys got a magic ethical 8 ball you shake up every day to figure out where you stand?

 

[Cimacoppi49]

I am a bit surprised that the omerta crumbled relatively easily (ok, it took a year but this investigation penetrated a lot deeper than I expected at the start).

A lesson for the future?

Grand Jury subpoenas are a very powerful lever.

 

[Magic Spanner]

Grand Jury subpoenas are a very powerful lever.

Powerful enough to prise the truth from Armstrong himself?

 

[richwagmn]

No. The other riders just went along with the program. They are guilty of doping but Armstrong was the instigator, the prime mover of the organized doping program.

He lead the charge, so you cannot say the other riders are just as guilty. They are guilty, but not like Lance. And it's a lot more than just about the doping. It's the financial shenanigans and the international PED trafficking.

So if you want to assign levels of guilt, Armstrong is on top, along with Bruyneel and Dr. Ferrari. They are the Unholy Trinity in all this. The other riders are below them.

Well, if the others are guilty, why aren't they being charged as well? Answer that question and you'll understand why this is a federal case at all.

 

[Merckx index]

Haven't followed this entire thread, has anyone wondered aloud who leaked GH's testimony? I can't believe he would tell anyone he didn't trust completely (really, doubt he would tell anyone at all). Which would mean it had to be someone present when the testimony was given. Who exactly would that be? Would someone from Novitzky's team be there, someone who might feel that getting George's testimony public might shake up the Armstrong team, maybe force them into a deal or something? Would someone other than George who might be present be allowed to leak his testimony?