Big news: Euskaltel is no longer Basque-only

[issoisso]

Not in the context you're trying to introduce.

Sicard and Cazaux were born and raised in the basque country. I don't know how much more basque you can be.

 

[Angliru]

Good. Maybe now they will, you know, win something.

Your post makes me sad.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

I didnt say they are not basque, i meant to say that they are not spanish

 

[sartoris]

I welcome that attitude.

All I have to say to the Euskalel owners: Welcome to the XXI century!

Subscribe to that. About time!

 

[Descender]

Euskaltel 2011: http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/team_palm.asp?year=2011&teamcode=eus&podium=1

BMC: http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/team_palm.asp?year=2011&teamcode=bmc&podium=1

Astana: http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/team_palm.asp?year=2011&teamcode=ast&podium=1

AG2R: http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/team_palm.asp?year=2011&teamcode=alm&podium=1

Quickstep: http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/team_palm.asp?year=2011&teamcode=qst&podium=1

So in terms of wins roughly equal to those (more than AG2R and Quickstep). In terms of quality worse than BMC, better than the rest. And this are just a few teams I bothered to look up (I know Rabobank, Sky, HTC etc had better results, I'm not gonna pretend that Euskaltel is #1 of the world).

It's not as bad as it's believed to be. Same with the stupid orange carrot always falling thing.

The Euskaltel team has been around since 1994. It has been part of the first category of cycling for most of its existence.

How many GTs has it won? Zero.
How many monuments has it won? Zero.

I'm trying very hard to think of another team that's existed for so long without winning any of the big ones, but I can't think of any.

 

[Angliru]

The Euskaltel team has been around since 1994. It has been part of the first category of cycling for most of its existence.

How many GTs has it won? Zero.
How many monuments has it won? Zero.

I'm trying very hard to think of another team that's existed for so long without winning any of the big ones, but I can't think of any.

Spanish riders and teams didn't have an interest in the classics until the Etxebarria and the Osa's (2003-4?). How many GT's have the French teams won in the same span of time? The Belgians for that matter. They've put riders in the top 5 of the Tour and Vuelta, won prominent weeklong stage races, Olympic road race, Tour, Giro and Vuelta stages. They haven't been one big blackhole of nothingness as you seem to be implying.

That being said they've handicapped themselves with their own philosophy and policies and within those self imposed limitations I think they've done fairly well. With the state of Europe's economy it's not surprising that it has come to this at this point in time. As long as they exist as a team in the elite levels of the sport (Pro Tour/Pro Continental), still contributing to the growth of the sport in the Basque region, and maintaining a degree of dedication to nurturing the best Basque or Basque trained pro's I will be content.

 

[Kvinto]

I guess it's not necessary to be successful in the Monuments/GTs in order to win hearts. Running the team against the stream pleases many people, isn't that enough? I don't want them to lose this fight against globalization, though it's their team and if they decide to stop, i'll have no other choice than take it as it is...

EDIT: and their place in the first category of teams is well-deserved

 

[Libertine Seguros]

In the next few years Euskaltel have to decide what they want to be. Either a fully Basque Pro Conti team or a mostly Basque World Tour team.

Sanchez is 34 next month and he can't go on forever. Last season he contributed two thirds of EE's WT points and those results will need to be replaced. While Anton and Nieve may improve, it's unlikely to be enough and there doesn't seem to be sufficient talent coming through for them to remain competitive (there seems to be a relative dearth of young talent across all of Spain). You can point to the Izagirre Insausti brothers or Sicard, but they need someone like Sagan, EBH or Rolland coming through.

Their position is similar to Yorkshire in English cricket. They used to have a policy that you had to be born in Yorkshire to play for them. In the early 90s, after over twenty years of rarely getting close to winning anything of importance, they realised they had to drop the policy to remain competitive. However, they didn't have to completely abandon their identity - of their current squad of 26, 21 were born in Yorkshire.

Mikel Landa is the one I'd look out for, more than the Izagirre brothers and possibly even Sicard. His ride in Burgos indicated potentially something special.

But was this because of Igor's Basque identity, or the team's? If Juanma Garate had won the stage, would it be any different?

Probably; it would still have been a big deal to have a Basque winner, but not as much as it was for a Euskaltel rider. Euskaltel are treated like the national team, but of that team you couldn't probably have picked a more popular winner than Igor since he's from the closest to Bilbao of that Vuelta lineup and the climb he attacked to win on began in the town he grew up in.

As well as sending riders to Australia, China, and Canada, countries where there is no demographic for their sponsors.

Well, that applies to Portugal, Belgium, the Netherlands, Italy, Poland and anywhere else they send their riders. Euskaltel's coverage only covers País Vasco, Navarra and Iparralde (maybe a bit outside, like the Burgos province or La Rioja?)

Although it reflects poorly on the financial state of cycling (which we know is not good), couldn't we end up with a (welcome) situation where you basically have the current mountain-happy team minus a few slots, and then tack on a couple of sprinters/classicists who would get good leadership opportunities for themselves, and make the team more competitive in all those flat races it's obliged to show up for?

I just don't know that that's welcome; people who don't really feel like they belong as part of the set up, either to the team or to the fans, just being tacked on for points purposes, just seems alien to one of the few teams that remain based on self-sufficiency. Just like some Athletic Bilbao fans would rather see the team relegated than abandon the Basques only policy, but for others the result is what counts, some Euskaltel fans could well walk away from the team if the hiring policy changes. And if they're not selling to Basques, who are they expecting to sell to?

Not in the context you're trying to introduce.

I don't really understand? Both Unai Etxebarría and Romain Sicard (and Pierre Cazaux) were raised in the Basque country; the latter two were born there. Iparralde is Basque. Navarre is mixed population, but Euskaltel are happy to take people from Navarre if they feel themselves to be Basque (Nieve for example is from Leitza). What context is anybody trying to introduce that is so wrong? Sicard and Cazaux ride for Euskaltel despite being French because they're French-Basque. Same as Imanol Harinordoquy plays for the French rugby team or Bixente Lizarazu played for the French football team.

I didnt say they are not basque, i meant to say that they are not spanish

Of course, some of the more nationalist-minded ones may point out they are not Spanish either.

 

[Señor_Contador]

Sicard and Cazaux were born and raised in the basque country. I don't know how much more basque you can be.

I don't know about Sicard but... I do know Etxebarria is not Basque, he is Venezuelan. Two different things.

One can say he is of Basque heritage, but he IS NOT Basque proper.

Capisci?

 

[Señor_Contador]

[...]I don't really understand? Both Unai Etxebarría and Romain Sicard (and Pierre Cazaux) were raised in the Basque country; the latter two were born there. Iparralde is Basque. Navarre is mixed population, but Euskaltel are happy to take people from Navarre if they feel themselves to be Basque (Nieve for example is from Leitza). What context is anybody trying to introduce that is so wrong? Sicard and Cazaux ride for Euskaltel despite being French because they're French-Basque. Same as Imanol Harinordoquy plays for the French rugby team or Bixente Lizarazu played for the French football team.[...]

Etxeberria is Venezuelan. He may have lived in Durango for many years, married many Basque women in the mean time, have many Basque babies, learn how to be an aizkolari or become a consumate bertsolari, but the fact of the matter is that he is Venezuelan. He went as far as trying to compete for Venezuela on various occasions.

I also want to make something very, I'd say abundantly, clear to everyone: the Basque Country (Euskadi), Iparralde and Navarre are three different things. Yes, there is tacit cultural affinity among all three regions but that's where it ends.

For those who do not know it, Euskaltel Euskadi is a team that, I believe until very recently, was co-sponsored by various governmental entities in Euskadi, most, if not all, governed by the PNV (Partido Nacionalista Vasco-Basque Nationalist Party), a political party whose main goal is to secede from Spain and unite Euskadi with Iparralde and Navarre into a new political entity called Euskal Herria. And Euskaltel-Euskadi, doing a stellar job serving its master (as opposed to on the bike), hired only riders from "Euskal Herria", with some obvious exceptions of course (i.e. if you are Venezuelan but have the required two Basque last names).

So, when I read that Euskaltel-Euskadi was now freed from the Basques-only "ball and chain" I was happy. And I was happy because it's a sign that Euskaltel-Euskadi is officially entering the XXI century.

 

[Txikia]

I don't know about Sicard but... I do know Etxebarria is not Basque, he is Venezuelan. Two different things.

One can say he is of Basque heritage, but he IS NOT Basque proper.

Capisci?

Unai Etxebarria is cleary neither Venezuelan nor Spanish, he is 100% basque, because his parents are! Another example is Fernando Amorebieta from Athletic Club (de Bilbao), because his parents also are both basques. Yes, he was born in Venezuela but grown up in Iurreta.

Back to the topic:
Very sad day for basque cycling, but this news is unsurprising. Also there will be basque top riders, like in time before Euskaltel-Euskadi (Lejarreta, Etxabe, Nazabal...).

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Etxeberria is Venezuelan. He may have lived in Durango for many years, married many Basque women in the mean time, have many Basque babies, learn how to be an aizkolari or become a consumate bertsolari, but the fact of the matter is that he is Venezuelan. He went as far as trying to compete for Venezuela on various occasions.

As has previously been mentioned, Unai Etxebarría, like Fernando Amorebieta, is born to Basque parents. So just as Bradley Wiggins is British despite being born in Belgium, Unai Etxebarría is Basque. However, "Basque" is not a nationality you can represent at the World Championships, so he preferred to represent his country of birth than Spain.

For the record, there are 25 riders born outside of the political entity of País Vasco who have represented Euskadi-Petronor, Euskadi or Euskaltel-Euskadi since 1994. 3 are from Iparralde (Elissalde, Sicard and Cazaux) and 15 are from Navarre. The seven "outsiders":
- Íñigo Cuesta (Burgos) - came through Bizkaian racing scene in the pre-Fundación Euskadi days
- Unai Etxebarría (Venezuela) - two Basque parents, had dual nationality but chose to represent Venezuela
- Ángel Castresana (Burgos) - ?
- Peio Arreitunandia (Galicia) - Basque parentage, grew up in Gipuzkoa
- Rubén Díaz de Cerio (La Rioja) - spent whole career in Fundación Euskadi teams
- Samuel Sánchez (Asturias) - spent whole career in Fundación Euskadi teams
- Victor Cabedo (Comunidad Valenciana) - spent whole career in Fundación Euskadi teams

I also want to make something very, I'd say abundantly, clear to everyone: the Basque Country (Euskadi), Iparralde and Navarre are three different things. Yes, there is tacit cultural affinity among all three regions but that's where it ends.

The Basque Country as in País Vasco is a separate political entity to Navarre and Iparralde. But the cultural affinity goes beyond that of a tacit nature. To the Basques, Iparralde and Navarre are Basque. And many of the people in Iparralde and Navarre are Basques, people coming from a long line of Basques, whose history is Basque, whose culture is Basque, whose lineage is Basque, who speak Basque, and to those people, they are Basque.

The nation-state is a very 19th-20th Century creation, and so it has been that over centuries before, population mixing and territories being shifted and shared and exchanged between different kingdoms has meant that many lands settled primarily by Basques have been owned and run by different people; populations have mixed. There is no clear line in Navarre that says "people beyond this point are Basques. People beyond this part are Spanish". Hence both sets claim it. Just because the political entity of Navarre predates the political entity of País Vasco does not mean that the people of Navarre therefore become Spanish and not Basque, and just because Basque people were there before the Spanish does not make the people of Navarre Basque and not Spanish. There are some of the biggest hotbeds of Basque fervour in Navarre - Leitza and Goizueta spring to mind straight away.

If we take the political entity argument to its logical conclusion, we are to ignore many, many political shifts. Was Adam Mickiewicz a Russian because when he was born, it was under a Russian flag? Was he not a Pole, despite being of Polish lineage, speaking and writing in Polish?

For those who do not know it, Euskaltel Euskadi is a team that, I believe until very recently, was co-sponsored by various governmental entities in Euskadi, most, if not all, governed by the PNV (Partido Nacionalista Vasco-Basque Nationalist Party), a political party whose main goal is to secede from Spain and unite Euskadi with Iparralde and Navarre into a new political entity called Euskal Herria. And Euskaltel-Euskadi, doing a stellar job serving its master (as opposed to on the bike), hired only riders from "Euskal Herria", with some obvious exceptions of course (i.e. if you are Venezuelan but have the required two Basque last names).

There have been a couple of riders from Burgos and La Rioja ride for them too, but under the same proviso that allows Unai Etxebarría to ride for them, or David López to play for Athletic Bilbao.

 

[hrotha]

I think Castresana rode for Kaiku as an amateur. I'm not sure I'm remembering it right, but at any rate he rode for a Basque team back then.

It's stupid to claim Unai wasn't Basque.

 

[Bye Bye Bicycle]

It's stupid to attach any importance to the question whether someone is "truly" Basque or not. Who cares about Unai Etxebarrias parents?

After all, It's just a cycling team and not a pedigreed elite squad.

 

[Kvinto]

It's stupid to attach any importance to the question whether someone is "truly" Basque or not. Who cares about Unai Etxebarrias parents?

After all, It's just a cycling team and not a pedigreed elite squad.

:facepalm:

ain't your parents the first persons to indicate your nationality?

 

[Bye Bye Bicycle]

:facepalm:

ain't your parents the first persons to indicate your nationality?

Not when you're born in the US or any other jus soli-country.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Not when you're born in the US or any other jus soli-country.

That's odd. I've known an awful lot of Americans who are very keen to tell you "I'm Irish", or "I'm Polish", or "I'm Italian", regardless of whether the legal status of the state is jus soli instead of jus sanguinis.

Germany was jus sanguinis until recently, hence "Aussiedler" - Germans who had lived in Eastern Europe but were moving back to a motherland they'd never seen - had full nationality rights, but these were not afforded to people born in Germany to immigrant parents.

Venezuela is a jus soli country, whereas Spain has a level of jus sanguinis, so Unai Etxebarría had dual nationality based on his Spanish lineage (which was of course Basque) and Venezuelan birthplace.

 

[Bye Bye Bicycle]

No need to discuss concepts of nationality here. They're all quite stupid and useless.

 

[Kvinto]

I'm not a lawyer, but i guess the right to get a nationality of a country you were born in no matter who your parents are is a right but not your duty. The friend of mine was born in Germany (1986) to Ukrainian parents and he is Ukrainian though he said if he wanted to be German he could change his nationality...

EDIT: though it is indeed not the issue

 

[will10]

Not in the context you're trying to introduce.

OK let's try again. Both are Basque.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I'm not a lawyer, but i guess the right to get a nationality of a country you were born in no matter who your parents are is a right but not your duty. The friend of mine was born in Germany (1986) to Ukrainian parents and he is Ukrainian though he said if he wanted to be German he could change his nationality...

He can now. Until 1990 being born in Germany was no guarantor of German nationality.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_sanguinis

Some countries apply Jus soli (right of the soil) meaning anybody born on that country has a right to that country's citizenship. Some apply Jus sanguinis (right of the blood) meaning anybody born anywhere in the world to parents of that nationality has a right to that country's citizenship.

In practice, most countries combine the two to varying levels. Hence why people like Heinrich Haussler (German bloodline, Australian born and raised) or Unai Etxebarría (Basque bloodline, Venezuelan-born) have those dual citizenships (or had, in the case of Haussler).

 

[XlandaluzeX]

The Euskaltel team has been around since 1994. It has been part of the first category of cycling for most of its existence.

How many GTs has it won? Zero.
How many monuments has it won? Zero.

I'm trying very hard to think of another team that's existed for so long without winning any of the big ones, but I can't think of any.

this is plain stupid,, what bout football, or rugby, how many teams have won Champions League or National champs, should all the others just dissapear cause they were not good enaugh (or maybe i should say didnt have enaugh money),**** Chelseas ***** Manchesters citys **** HTCs and the likes, glad at the very end this continues to be an SPORT, in part thank to teams like Euskaltel-Euskadi, sadly it wont last for long till they turn this into ****

 

[XlandaluzeX]

Well, that applies to Portugal, Belgium, the Netherlands, Italy, Poland and anywhere else they send their riders. Euskaltel's coverage only covers País Vasco, Navarra and Iparralde (maybe a bit outside, like the Burgos province or La Rioja?).

they do have coverage wolrdwide i think, they work together with orange or vodafone cant remember, but u can only find Euskaltel shops in the region u mentioned,, not to forget neither that right now half of the team budget comes from the Basque government, so well u can say riding all through Europe would have some impact in attracting tourists

 

[Señor_Contador]

Unai Etxebarria is cleary neither Venezuelan nor Spanish, he is 100% basque, because his parents are!

What nationality is he?

You're confusing "Basque" with "Basque heritage".

 

[luckyboy]

That already happens.

Technically, but I was talking about seeing Russians or Dutch riders or whatever nationality riding for them.

Opening the team up to foreign riders is a bit different to letting people with Basque parentage ride for them.