BMC 2012 - Dream Team

[greenedge]

And mollema who is riding a great Vuelta.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

I wonder if at the start of the year anyone considered Garmin-Cervelo as a super team???
Their results don't back up the idea but they had a good season still. P-R, 4 stages at the TDF, Millar, in the Pink jersey and winning the Milan ITT and now Dan Martin going well at the Vuelta.

not me, I argued against them often.

Who is better than TJVG in his age group???

see youngest post. he is good, but imo very overhyped on this forum.

I'm pretty sure it was BMC's pretty average classics team that was able to chase back Cancellara with no one else's help.

OH, very impressive, in fact that defining moment justifies the fact they got no results in the northern classics.. and I aint just talking about the WT races.. omloop, e3, dvv etc. Poor

A lot of people (one in particular) talked them up here, and they were pretty average.

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anyway they have obviously improved a great deal, and have a lot more potential winners I guess. And of course gilbert who is oh so valuable.
But super-team, no.

 

[hatcher]

They just don't build dream teams like they used to. Who is this rider that will dominate a second grand tour?

They will for sure be less top heavy than they currently are, and should contend in all types of classics, and in the Tour, but they are hardly alone in that.

 

[theyoungest]

Most people are pessimistic about this. I believe that Gilbert will go well. Classic campaigns of greatness usually run for at least 2 years. I forgot about Rolland, Pinot and Taaramae thx. I would say that Poels is not better. Kruijswijk might be just as good.

Kruijswijk has a top-10 in a GT plus a podium and stage win in a WT race (in which he crushed Van Garderen BTW).

And mollema who is riding a great Vuelta.

If we're including the class of 1986, names like Gesink and Kreuziger come into play... so far, Van Garderen is no competition for these guys.

Big talent, he certainly is, but so far only really impressive in the time trial.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

BMC is becoming the Chelsea/Manchester City of cycling.

I dislike.

 

[auscyclefan94]

BMC is becoming the Chelsea/Manchester City of cycling.

I dislike.

LOL, you are a funny one. When did you actaully like ythem in the first place? You've always openly hated them and then you made comments on other threads that BMC were all about buying and not devloping even though they have many young riders.

not me, I argued against them often.

see youngest post. he is good, but imo very overhyped on this forum.

OH, very impressive, in fact that defining moment justifies the fact they got no results in the northern classics.. and I aint just talking about the WT races.. omloop, e3, dvv etc. Poor

A lot of people (one in particular) talked them up here, and they were pretty average.

---

anyway they have obviously improved a great deal, and have a lot more potential winners I guess. And of course gilbert who is oh so valuable.
But super-team, no.

TJVG overhyped? If anything he is talked down a lot on this forum because people feel he is overhyped. I agree that their classics team failed to deliver on many occasions especially for a team which has so much talent in the cobbled classics. People talked up BMC which was fair in the classics because they have such a great team.

Saying they are a super team is a ridiculous call. No team can really be called a super team and no rider can be called unbeatable. I hate when such sweeping statements are made.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

coolingwood superteam ?



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anyway what DT meant was they didn't actually devolp these youg riders, but mooch of already established youngsters. Which isn't that untrue really.
And they are spending in a chelsea like fashion.

also I have seen a lot of tjvg hype personally.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Kruijswijk, Taaramae, Poels... just some other names in the same age group who's season is at least as impressive as Van Garderen's. Not to mention Pinot, who is younger and already climbing with the best in the Dauphiné.

FFS, Teejay is doing pretty darn well. People seem to love to talk down American riders just to compensate for the over hyping and love of Armstrong. TJVG is pretty darn talented, has an excellent chrono and has put in some pretty good performances in his short career. If he develops into a gc rider then good luck to him. Nothing is certain but just call it as it is.

Going to take an early stab at predicting the BMC 2012 TDF line up. Here goes:
Evans
Hincapie
Gilbert
Hushovd
TJVG
Bookwalter,
Burghart
Pinoti
Morabito

Toss up between Morabito and Frank. Also, Pinoti may well ride Giro, especially if there is no TTT in next years tour.

Feel free to pick my team apart.

Pinotti will do the giro if there is no TTT. I would certainly have someone like Frank and/or Moinard in the team.

 

[auscyclefan94]

coolingwood superteam ?

 

[Ferminal]

I wasn't aware that I was advocating BMC as the world's strongest/best GT team.
Imo, the best GT team is the one who sends a genuine/contender/s/star rider to each of the 3 events.
BMC are likely to follow other, unpopular teams who put all their eggs into the July Tour basket.

Will be very Radioshack as far as GTs are concerned I think. Not sure if Hushovd or Gilbert will do the Giro, and anyone who is capable of climbing will be looking for the Tour. Pinotti gives them something, but who knows if he can reach his 2010 placing again. Vuelta squad should be reasonable though.

 

[Spider1964]

Why aren't the Collingwoood faithful chanting??? Is it September?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

I never hated BMC ACF, only your attitude towards every team Evans goes to.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Didn't read the whole thread, but I might not have to. Is it more or less the same discussion we had about Garmin last year? A great Classics team that is sure to nail the big ones, with a potent pool of GC contenders with proven winner(s) and young talent? -But ohh no, they're all overhyped, too many chiefs, ect.

Having the same conversation season after season is at least efficient, I guess...

 

[Eratosthenes]

Collingwoood forever

Why aren't the Collingwoood faithful chanting??? Is it September?

Good old Collingwood forever,
we know how to play the game.

Side by side we stick together,
to uphold The Magpies name.

Hear the barrackers a shouting,
as all barrackers should,

Oh, the premiership's a cakewalk
For the good old Collingwood.


Mind you, Cuddles would likely be happy with the Cats win over the mighty pies.

 

[Parrulo]

tejay van dropped by rui costa garderen . . . . ya thats a lot of climbing potential. him and richie porte are no doubt future GT winners. . . .

 

[movingtarget]

BMC could be flattered for choice but they showed this year that selecting lots of reasonably good climbers can be trumped by just selecting experienced strong guys with no ambitions but to support Evans. Their TT was strong and they were able to position Evans by riding near the front for most of the stages. I think sometimes that mountain domestiques are overrated because they are usually not good enough to stick with the best GC riders until the end unless they are super domestiques like Szymd who has not shown the same form this year. An elite climber does not need that much help on the climb as we saw with Contador and Evans winning the Giro and Tour and rarely having team mates around them on the last climb. If the team leader cracks on a climb there is only so much that a domestique can do for them and the damage is usually already done. I hope BMC don't experiment too much with their TDF team in 2012. There are good races for Hushovd, Gilbert, Van Garderen and Pinotti to try and win in 2012 but I'm not sure that having more than one or two of them in the Tour team is a good idea.

 

[kurtinsc]

tejay van dropped by rui costa garderen . . . . ya thats a lot of climbing potential. him and richie porte are no doubt future GT winners. . . .

Van Garderen actually seemed much stronger on that stage... but he rode stupid. He was at the front constantly and kept attacking while Costa kept rested and rode smart. Then when he tired from the effort, Costa took advantage.

That wasn't a lack of ability causing that drop... just a lack of tactics or way too much confidence.

 

[spetsa]

As much as I would like to see Evans win another TDF, IMO that is 100% dependent upon the outcome of Contadors hearing later in the year. If he is cleared, he will dominate the TDF in a similar manner in which he did this years Giro. People seem to forget that he targeted the Giro with a very real possibility that he would not have the opportunity to even race the TDF. If given the chance to continue, which I do not believe he should, his focus will most certainly be on July.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Van Garderen actually seemed much stronger on that stage... but he rode stupid. He was at the front constantly and kept attacking while Costa kept rested and rode smart. Then when he tired from the effort, Costa took advantage.

That wasn't a lack of ability causing that drop... just a lack of tactics or way too much confidence.

costa had attacked earlier also. Tejay was no match, excuses or not.

There are riders who have shown much more in their first two GT riders. IMO he looks more like a short stage racer, as I just don't think he is an outstanding climber. OFC he might devolp to become of the best GT guys, but at this point I see much better potential elsewhere from this generatio.

 

[kurtinsc]

costa had attacked earlier also. Tejay was no match, excuses or not.

There are riders who have shown much more in their first two GT riders. IMO he looks more like a short stage racer, as I just don't think he is an outstanding climber. OFC he might devolp to become of the best GT guys, but at this point I see much better potential elsewhere from this generatio.

Oh, I'm not claiming he's going to be a great GT rider. I think he's going to be much more of a 1-week racer (unless the GT's start going back to having a lot more ITT kilometers).

I just thought on that stage he was primarily the one leading over the climbs. He was the one driving the pace and dropping others, Costa (with the exception of one brief attack) rode his wheel up the entire climb. At the begginning of the final climb, after the first spate of attacks he again rode a high pace at the front with no help for 3km. Then Gautier attacked and TVG did all the work to bring him back, then as Gautier was caught, Costa attacked immediately. TVG tried to bring that one back too... but he didn't have the gas left.

It was a very well timed attack by Costa, and Costa rode a superior race. I'm just not certain TVG wasn't stronger overall... he spent so much time on the front during the climbs that he seemed to just run out of juice at the end. He was the one doing the work in dropping people on the climbs prior to Costa's attack with 5km to go.

If you find the race day thread, I think you'll see most others on here felt he was the strongest until he couldn't pull back Costa's attack too. Maybe Costa was stronger and just hiding it... he clearly rode a smarter race. But TJVG did a lot to fatigue himself. Without him pushing the pace, Costa probably wouldn't have had enough of a gap to win the stage.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

tejay van dropped by rui costa garderen . . . . ya thats a lot of climbing potential. him and richie porte are no doubt future GT winners. . . .

Tejay was the better climber that day. Rui raced way smarter however, and allowed Tejay to use up his energy - Tejay was willing to take the lead most of the time to help them stay away, burnt himself trying to shake Costa on the attacks, and dropped him at the top of the climb, but Costa descended right to his wheel; Tejay cooked himself trying to drop Costa where it really wasn't practical, Costa conserved his energy where he could and made sure he did just enough to make the victory possible.

Tejay is a serviceable climber and a very good ITT rider. He should be a star in the future. His signing is a shrewd and very good one for Evans in that they can blood him to take over from Evans as GT leader when Evans goes off the boil in 2-3 years as he grows older. However, signing him at the present time improves their mountain domestique corps a bit, but is still a long way away from making them a superteam.

 

[Parrulo]

Tejay was the better climber that day. Rui raced way smarter however, and allowed Tejay to use up his energy - Tejay was willing to take the lead most of the time to help them stay away, burnt himself trying to shake Costa on the attacks, and dropped him at the top of the climb, but Costa descended right to his wheel; Tejay cooked himself trying to drop Costa where it really wasn't practical, Costa conserved his energy where he could and made sure he did just enough to make the victory possible.

Tejay is a serviceable climber and a very good ITT rider. He should be a star in the future. His signing is a shrewd and very good one for Evans in that they can blood him to take over from Evans as GT leader when Evans goes off the boil in 2-3 years as he grows older. However, signing him at the present time improves their mountain domestique corps a bit, but is still a long way away from making them a superteam.

actually costa said in an interview that TJVG attacked to get the mountain points and costa thought it wasn't worth to waste energy there as he didn't care about the points.

 

[Anonymous]

Liquigas will be a super team very soon.

 

[Parrulo]

Liquigas will be a super team very soon.

they are amazing bringing in more new talent thats for sure.

 

[greenedge]

Sagan and Nibali. Who else? Viviani, Gaureni ( i know i did not spell right ) Oss, Capecchi. Good enough but won't be owning Cav in the sprints.

I think all these riders will Help BMC in two ways:
1. They are all good riders who can help each other if they agree to. Have a good support class/ Ballan, Kroon, and Hincapie for the Cobbles. Evans and GVA for Gilbert in the Ardennes. Riders like Quinziato and Moinard to help Pinotti/ TJVG at stage races and the best riders at a current time/ suitability to help Evans in his big season goal at the TDF. I'm sure TJVG will acquire the tactical nous to ride and he has helped Tony Martin a lot this year at stage races. Add that to the fact at the TDF he had to ride as part of Cav's train.

And at the TDF next year Cadel will have to put his team on the front in the mountains so getting any help is better than none. Also riders like Hushovd can drive on the flats and own in the TTT's

2. Fostering a winning culture.
To the point hat Kruijswijk won a stage at the Tour de Suisse i reply that TJVG, did all the work for Martin at P-R, finished 3rd at the Dauphinie and 2nd this year at the Volta ao Algarve??? I do like them both equally and i think they are =. Maybe because TJVG is Anglo i know more about him but on CN they hype him up a lot.


Geelong screwed me up against Collingwood but at least my beloved Knights won and got into the top 8.