BMC 2012 - Dream Team

[Parrulo]

Sagan and Nibali. Who else?

are you ****ing serious? jesus christ do some research yourself and you will see how wrong you are. just a small hint tho: roman kreuziguer ever heard of him?

 

[dlwssonic]

BMC will have a great team and it might be a little of a dream team. But it won't dominate the GTs, classics yes. With Evans, GVA and Gilbert they will be one hell of a force in the ardennes. They will be pretty good too in the cobbled classics but they wont dominate those. They will be a huge threat for MSR too. Ballan and thor could be a good duo for the cobbles but ballan is leaving most probably.

 

[Parrulo]

BMC will have a great team and it might be a little of a dream team. But it won't dominate the GTs, classics yes. With Evans, GVA and Gilbert they will be one hell of a force in the ardennes. They will be pretty good too in the cobbled classics but they wont dominate those. They will be a huge threat for MSR too. Ballan and thor could be a good duo for the cobbles but ballan is leaving most probably.

i thought ballan was leaving. tbh i still consider ballan a better cobbled rider then hushovd and think its a bad trade for bmc.
o
and ya i agree with you bmc will be a major force on the ardennes classics but they don't have a team to dominate any GT(in terms of controlling on the mountains), they may win one if evans goes for the giro but even there facing nibali will be hard for evans. on the cobbled classics bmc does have gilbert for the ronde even tho he has been constantly schooled there by boonen and canc (mostly canc) and honestly putting hushovd on canc's and boonen's level for P-R should be worth a perma ban on this forum imo.

overall it kind of reminds me of saxo pre-mass exodus but not as good, still an amazing team tho for next year

 

[AussieGoddess]

are you ****ing serious? jesus christ do some research yourself and you will see how wrong you are. just a small hint tho: roman kreuziguer ever heard of him?

umm - forgive me if I'm wrong - but doesnt Kruezinger ride for Astana now ?????

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Sagan and Nibali. Who else? Viviani, Gaureni ( i know i did not spell right ) Oss, Capecchi. Good enough but won't be owning Cav in the sprints.

Capecchi's not a sprinter, he's a mountain helper. Lots of promise, has been on the cusp of making the step up since he won the Euskal Bizikleta in 2008. Damiano Caruso is a really big talent, Kristijan Koren is more than serviceable, and Agnoli is a very good mountain helper.

Of course, when we're talking mountain helper they still have Sylwester Szmyd, who's nigh on the best in the business, and on his own is worth more help in the high mountains than the whole BMC support team for Evans this last two years.

And "Sagan, Nibali, who else?" as a query of whether Liquigas could be a super team? Don't you think you're forgetting someone?

Ah yes, that's better.

 

[greenedge]

umm - forgive me if I'm wrong - but doesnt Kruezinger ride for Astana now ?????

Yes he does. He left Liquigas to go to Astana after they would have probably concentrated on nibali and since he is Eastern european.

 

[Dutchsmurf]

The more I think about it, the less impressed I'm with the BMC 2012 team. They are a dream team for the Ardennes, but that is about it. For cobbles I rank Garmin, Quickstep and Cancellara higher. For GTs they aren't even top 5 in my opinion (behind, among others, Rabobank (3 gt riders > 1 gt rider), Liquigas and Contador). For 1 week races they aren't the best either.

 

[auscyclefan94]

The more I think about it, the less impressed I'm with the BMC 2012 team. They are a dream team for the Ardennes, but that is about it. For cobbles I rank Garmin, Quickstep and Cancellara higher. For GTs they aren't even top 5 in my opinion (behind, among others, Rabobank (3 gt riders > 1 gt rider), Liquigas and Contador). For 1 week races they aren't the best either.

Cobbled Classics: How the hell could Garmin be better than BMC's cobbled classics team? Quickstep's cobbled classics team has been quite average for a few years now. Don't rate it.

GT's: Rabobank hardly have 3 GT riders. Gesink clearly is their leader but if he's their best GC prospect with some 4th and 5th at GT's then I don't see how you could call Kruiswijk or Mollema leaders. Anyway, just because you have more leaders isn't necessarily a good thing. Liquigas were hardly that evident when the **** went down this year at the tour.

Stage races: With Evans, van Garderen, Porte (possibly), Pinotti, Morabito and Frank they have some good riders for stage races.

 

[theyoungest]

Cobbled Classics: How the hell could Garmin be better than BMC's cobbled classics team? Quickstep's cobbled classics team has been quite average for a few years now. Don't rate it.

Compare QST's cobbles results to those of any of the BMC riders in recent years. And hang your head in shame.

GT's: Rabobank hardly have 3 GT riders. Gesink clearly is their leader but if he's their best GC prospect with some 4th and 5th at GT's then I don't see how you could call Kruiswijk or Mollema leaders. Anyway, just because you have more leaders isn't necessarily a good thing. Liquigas were hardly that evident when the **** went down this year at the tour.

You're right, having Evans cancels out all GT riders Rabobank might have. They have a lot of them, but none of them is half as good as Evans. Problem with BMC is, they only have Evans. And Pinotti, maybe.

 

[Dutchsmurf]

Cobbled Classics: How the hell could Garmin be better than BMC's cobbled classics team? Quickstep's cobbled classics team has been quite average for a few years now. Don't rate it.

GT's: Rabobank hardly have 3 GT riders. Gesink clearly is their leader but if he's their best GC prospect with some 4th and 5th at GT's then I don't see how you could call Kruiswijk or Mollema leaders. Anyway, just because you have more leaders isn't necessarily a good thing. Liquigas were hardly that evident when the **** went down this year at the tour.

Stage races: With Evans, van Garderen, Porte (possibly), Pinotti, Morabito and Frank they have some good riders for stage races.

First of all, I'm not saying BMC is a bad team. On the contrary, I think they are a quite good team. Just not the level of a dream team.

If Garmin and Quickstep are average, I'm curious what word you will use for BMC's cobbled team. Both of them actually get results, something that can't be said about BMC. They might prove me wrong next year, but I just don't believe in Hushovd winning PR.

Last I checked there are 3GTs. Evans is more likely than not only doing the Tour. After Evans there is a huge gap of nothing. Porte isn't confirmed yet, Van Garderen has yet to prove himself, Pinotti is a good helper and if we start rating Morabito and Frank... That means they basically have nobody for the other 2 GTs. Of course that is a problem shared by many teams. But you can't be called a dream team if your whole GT success depends on 1 guy doing 1 GT. I'm not calling Rabobank or any other team a dream team, but at least Rabobank have people that can realistically aim for a top 5 in all 3 GTs.

Same story for 1 week races. I don't deny they have some good riders. Evans can win something while preparing for the Tour, Van Garderen might improve on this year and win something. Morabito and Frank won't win a 1 week race. So basically it is Evans + Van Garderen, lots of teams can equal or better that. Sky and Radioshack as examples. Contador on his own can equal that.

So basically BMC is a good team, but far away from being called a dream team. At the moment the closest you can get to the title of dream team is the Leopard-Radioshack merger. If all major names stay on that team (which won't happen) you get a team that has a realistic shot at winning almost anything.

 

[toolittle]

My Predition of BMC 2012 Result :

1. No.1 UCI Ranking
2. Win > 2 WorldTour 1 Days Races with More than 10 Podiums
3. Win > 2 WorldTour Medium Tour Stage Races with More than 5 Podiums
4. Win > 20 Stages
5. Win > 10 Races

Comparsion to Previous so-call dream teams.

2012 BMC VS 2011 Leopard

- In Cobbed and Hilly Classic
Leopards a super Cancellera with 2 strong domestiques
Thor + Evans + Gilbert with 5 strong domestiques

- In Medium Stages
Evans + TVG vs Brothers

- In Grand Tour
Evans VS Brothers

But 2012 BMC is still behind 2008 CSC, 199x Discovery Channel

 

[Parrulo]

umm - forgive me if I'm wrong - but doesnt Kruezinger ride for Astana now ?????

he was developed by liquigas which is the point of my post. i said:

they are amazing bringing in more new talent thats for sure.

never mentioned them being a super team.

how much talent has bmc developed?

 

[toolittle]

First of all, I'm not saying BMC is a bad team. On the contrary, I think they are a quite good team. Just not the level of a dream team.

If Garmin and Quickstep are average, I'm curious what word you will use for BMC's cobbled team. Both of them actually get results, something that can't be said about BMC. They might prove me wrong next year, but I just don't believe in Hushovd winning PR.

Last I checked there are 3GTs. Evans is more likely than not only doing the Tour. After Evans there is a huge gap of nothing. Porte isn't confirmed yet, Van Garderen has yet to prove himself, Pinotti is a good helper and if we start rating Morabito and Frank... That means they basically have nobody for the other 2 GTs. Of course that is a problem shared by many teams. But you can't be called a dream team if your whole GT success depends on 1 guy doing 1 GT. I'm not calling Rabobank or any other team a dream team, but at least Rabobank have people that can realistically aim for a top 5 in all 3 GTs.

Same story for 1 week races. I don't deny they have some good riders. Evans can win something while preparing for the Tour, Van Garderen might improve on this year and win something. Morabito and Frank won't win a 1 week race. So basically it is Evans + Van Garderen, lots of teams can equal or better that. Sky and Radioshack as examples. Contador on his own can equal that.

So basically BMC is a good team, but far away from being called a dream team. At the moment the closest you can get to the title of dream team is the Leopard-Radioshack merger. If all major names stay on that team (which won't happen) you get a team that has a realistic shot at winning almost anything.

Leopard-Radioshack merger won't be a dream team also.

- Average in Hilly classic
- Average in Cobbled stone classic
- Super strong in a week race
- Strong in Grand Tour

To be a dream team, the team must includes :
Evans + Contador + Schlecks + Levi
Thor + Boonen + Cancellera
Tony Martin + Mark Cavendish
Gilbert

And have RODRIGUEZ OLIVER Joaquin, nabii, TVG, Robert Genish etc as domestique.

 

[auscyclefan94]

he was developed by liquigas which is the point of my post. i said:



never mentioned them being a super team.

how much talent has bmc developed?

BMC haven't developed talent? Are you fricken serious?????

 

[greenedge]

Yes i know i forgot Basso but the quote "SOON" insinuates the idea of youngish riders. I don't think he can win the TDF and we don't know whether he will do the Giro again. However Nibali should do the TDF in my view and Basso the Giro. Apparently he hungers for a 3rd one.

I knew Cappechi was not a sprinter. I meant to have a full stop. Caruso is good i agree. Szmyd did ok this year, he was not that great. He is not that explosive. This year his best ride was on stage 12/14 at the TDF. At that point i thought Basso would win as he was said to be peaking for the 3rd week with his "stamina"

I think that Liquigas will not be as big a team as BMC in terms of big name rider across all fields. However they do have good team ethics and work for each other well. They also will not have riders for all races. Sagan needs another 2 years maximum to challenge Gilbert at the Ardennes I could envisage him however winning M-SR. For the cobbles they have no one except for maybe Oss in future.( even then might be stretching it ). Riders like Nibali and Basso do not also win a lot of one week stage races ( Tour of Poland Nibali worked for Sagan )

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Szmyd did ok this year, he was not that great. He is not that explosive. This year his best ride was on stage 12/14 at the TDF. At that point i thought Basso would win as he was said to be peaking for the 3rd week with his "stamina"

Szmyd's role isn't to be explosive though, he's meant to be grinding to put people out the back, to set up the winning move, whether that be an attack or Basso getting on the front and putting on the hurt.

The other thing with Szmyd is that because he's consistently working in support of a leader, he is hamstrung by having to ride at the tempo that leader wants. On the Colle delle Finestre few people were shelled by Szmyd once we got to the heads of state group. But we soon learnt why, because almost as soon as Szmyd peeled off, Nibali went out the back. Szmyd's reputation as a climber also meant that few attacks were forthcoming as many riders were probably happy to feel that they were comfortable with Szmyd's pace, where he was probably having to ride within himself a bit for Nibali, who wasn't having a good day.

 

[greenedge]

Compare QST's cobbles results to those of any of the BMC riders in recent years. And hang your head in shame.


You're right, having Evans cancels out all GT riders Rabobank might have. They have a lot of them, but none of them is half as good as Evans. Problem with BMC is, they only have Evans. And Pinotti, maybe.

+100. As long as Evans has support he can still go well for next year at the TDF and he will have a good support cast. How come all these other teams are better but have not had great results this year. QS have Boonen and Chavanel and next year Martin, Velits and Levi. That is good i fully agree and will be a super team. Leopard have the Shlecks and Cancellara but have won nothing of note this year, including the TDF, Classics or stage races ( except for Criterium international ). Rabobank have done well developing Dutch youth but they had a great start to the season then fizzled out a bit. ( i would look like an idiot if Mollema wins the Vuelta, which is highly probable )

Admittedly they will all go great next year. QSOP look to win at least one classic and win a few stage races. However Evans/ BMC have now got the previous winner of the TDF, stage races, young talent in Phinney/ TJVG and Thor and Gilbert for classics. I am sure most teams would have liked to have had them.

 

[greenedge]

he was developed by liquigas which is the point of my post. i said:

But you did go off at me for a reason which you were wrong in. Irrespective of where he was developed, he's not there any more.

Leopard trek have two top notch GC riders who don't ride the Giro or Vuelta which is a pity. Most teams will send a bad team to a GT at least once a year. (Leopard to the Giro). However they did not win the TDF whereas Evans did. I'm sure if Evans lost he would have tried the Vuelta.

I think Sky will be a super team next year. EBH, Geraint, Wiggins ( winner of this year's Vuelta??? ) and of course Cav.

Let's just say the point is BMC will chances for a lot of races. That makes a team most Directors would dream of having with 3 top notch riders who challenge in Cobbled classics, Hilly classics and GT's. When i told my father ( who knows some info about cycling ) when i told him that BMC signed Gilbert, Hushovd and even TJVG he was like WOW. He then asked how would it work in GT's??? That will be the main problem for BMC.

Just wait till next year.

 

[Parrulo]

But you did go off at me for a reason which you were wrong in. Irrespective of where he was developed, he's not there any more.

Leopard trek have two top notch GC riders who don't ride the Giro or Vuelta which is a pity. Most teams will send a bad team to a GT at least once a year. (Leopard to the Giro). However they did not win the TDF whereas Evans did. I'm sure if Evans lost he would have tried the Vuelta.

I think Sky will be a super team next year. EBH, Geraint, Wiggins ( winner of this year's Vuelta??? ) and of course Cav.

Let's just say the point is BMC will chances for a lot of races. That makes a team most Directors would dream of having with 3 top notch riders who challenge in Cobbled classics, Hilly classics and GT's. When i told my father ( who knows some info about cycling ) when i told him that BMC signed Gilbert, Hushovd and even TJVG he was like WOW. He then asked how would it work in GT's??? That will be the main problem for BMC.

Just wait till next year.

you do realize i never said liquigas was going to be a super team don't you? zamasailo said it. i only said they are good at bringing new talent.

sporting is one of the best football clubs in the world at bringing new talent. players like figo, cristiano ronaldo, quaresma, simão, nani etc all came from their developing system. just because they are no longer playing there does it mean they aren't good at developing talent doens't it?

 

[PCutter]

Did someone say GT Dream Team?

 

[Kazistuta]

BMC haven't developed talent? Are you fricken serious?????

Well, I'd say he is.

Which talents would you say BMC has developed? To some extent Mathias Frank, but don't tell me you consider guys like Phinney, TOAK etc. "talent developed" by BMC. They've GOT some talents (Phinney, Eijssen, Roe), but that's it.

Liquigas (Sagan, Oss, Kreuziger, Nibali, Viviani etc.)
Lampre (Ulissi, Spilak, Malori, Gavazzi)
Saxo - earlier (Schlecks, Breschel, Fuglsang)
HTC (Goss, Degenkolb, Hagen, Martin, to some extent even Cav)
Rabobank (Gesink, Mollema, Kruijswijk, Boom, Boogerd etc.)

All the teams above have proven they can develop talent.

I'm sure you wouldn't claim Sky has developed any talents yet either? Dowsett might be on the way, and G as well, but hard to say these new-ish teams have got a record of talent developing... And that does include BMC imo.

 

[dlwssonic]

Well, I'd say he is.

Which talents would you say BMC has developed? To some extent Mathias Frank, but don't tell me you consider guys like Phinney, TOAK etc. "talent developed" by BMC. They've GOT some talents (Phinney, Eijssen, Roe), but that's it.

Liquigas (Sagan, Oss, Kreuziger, Nibali, Viviani etc.)
Lampre (Ulissi, Spilak, Malori, Gavazzi)
Saxo - earlier (Schlecks, Breschel, Fuglsang)
HTC (Goss, Degenkolb, Hagen, Martin, to some extent even Cav)
Rabobank (Gesink, Mollema, Kruijswijk, Boom, Boogerd etc.)

All the teams above have proven they can develop talent.

I'm sure you wouldn't claim Sky has developed any talents yet either? Dowsett might be on the way, and G as well, but hard to say these new-ish teams have got a record of talent developing... And that does include BMC imo.

They are trying to develop talents, although not all of them have been successful yet.
They have lots of neo pros, the ones you have mentioned and butler, beyer and barton. Isn't that enough? They might not be as successful as some of the others in the other teams but BMC are trying to develop talent

 

[greenedge]

I said Sky will be a super team next year, not a team that has developed riders so much. However Rowe will be developed by them and he is a huge talent.

 

[dlwssonic]

Haven't they developed Froome, he is a big rider now.

 

[greenedge]

Barloworld developed him and Geraint. Though i suppose both were taught by Brailsford.