Bomb in Oslo

[gregod]

this is an interesting perspective by glenn greenwald on norway's response to its recent tragedy. i have no adequate words for how much i admire this country.

 

[lancaster]

i find it admirable that Norway only imprisons its citizens for 21 years.
is anyone really the same as they were 21 years ago. who we were matters in the make up of who we are and who we will be. we might not be better people, but we're certainly not the same.

with regards to prison as a punishment, does anyone really feel that 21 years without your life is not punishing.
"prison is where they keep you while awaiting your punishment"
(paraphrased from a christopher brookmyre book, i say paraphrased as i don't have the book to hand and can't be sure that my memory of the line is perfect)
basically, while you're not living your life, everyone you know is, and in decades the world, and all the people you know/knew change.

i strongly believe that prison should be about rehabilitation (and protection of society via this method) if you are unable to rehabilitate people in 21 years you're probably not doing it right.

if people are violent and delusional and a danger to society then prison is reasonable, but predicting this sort of behaviour in 20, 30, 50... years time seems like overreaching.

 

[Nielsa]

I have a gut feeling that the maximum sentence will not be 21 years after all of this is over.

No need. With current laws, you can go to prison for 21 or 30 years + 5 years +5 + 5 +5... for the rest of your life. Which is what's most probably going to happen with Breivik.

 

[craig1985]

No need. With current laws, you can go to prison for 21 or 30 years + 5 years +5 + 5 +5... for the rest of your life. Which is what's most probably going to happen with Breivik.

Fair enough you know more than what I do, but I've read a few articles here with some Norwegians upset by the fact that the maximum sentence is 21 years, and one or two others want capital punishment for this guy. Then again emotions are running pretty high at the moment, and nothing short of lynching Breivik will be enough.

 

[Maxiton]

I can see that a lot of people are jumping in their chairs when they see that our maximum penalty is 21 years. This is one of the things that make Norway Norway. We don't necessarily see it as a punishment, but as a rehabilitation. The prison conditions are the best in the world, and the prisoners have a lot of freedom. For dangerous prisoners that haven't been rehabilitated we can keep them longer until we no longer see tham as a danger for our society.

Human rights, democracy and equal rights for all is a strong building block in the Norwegian society, and we have the lowest crimerate in the world. Anders Behring Breivik did his terror attaccks to break down just this culture (he was a christian conservatist, with sympaties with the Tea Party movement in the US). If we react with hate rather than with giving him the same rights as othhers, he is the winner in the end.

And as an answer to this the norwegian people have reacted with prays for more democracy, more openess; make the norwegian society even more "naive" (as I've shockingly heard US and UK news braodcaster say). Our way of life works, Anders Behring Breivik's, and the right wing conservatist's doesn't.

Last I wil just say to everyone that you should not take anything FOX-news says seriously. I've never in my life heard such twisted news coverage as their news coverage over this terror attacks. FOX-news is a fraud, and lot of their "news" is just lies..

Sorry for my bad english.

Wonderful post. My sympathies are with your country. I wish I could live there.

 

[Nielsa]

Fair enough you know more than what I do, but I've read a few articles here with some Norwegians upset by the fact that the maximum sentence is 21 years, and one or two others want capital punishment for this guy. Then again emotions are running pretty high at the moment, and nothing short of lynching Breivik will be enough.

Most Norwegians aren't familiar with this somewhat obscure law; it hasn't been a matter of discussion for a long time. I am 99% sure he will get a lifetime sentence, it'll just be structured as 21/30+5+5+5...

P.S. There've been media reports that the criminal underground have put a bounty on his head. He'll probably be placed in complete isolation, though, so I don't think his fellow inmates will be able to get to him.

 

[craig1985]

In Australia I can only think of maybe 10-15 people that are doing life in prison and will never see the light of freedom again, so it seldom happens here as well. Genuine question, is that '+5+5+5 etc.' for every person that he shot?

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

I can see that a lot of people are jumping in their chairs when they see that our maximum penalty is 21 years. This is one of the things that make Norway Norway. We don't necessarily see it as a punishment, but as a rehabilitation. The prison conditions are the best in the world, and the prisoners have a lot of freedom. For dangerous prisoners that haven't been rehabilitated we can keep them longer until we no longer see tham as a danger for our society.

Human rights, democracy and equal rights for all is a strong building block in the Norwegian society, and we have the lowest crimerate in the world. Anders Behring Breivik did his terror attaccks to break down just this culture (he was a christian conservatist, with sympaties with the Tea Party movement in the US). If we react with hate rather than with giving him the same rights as othhers, he is the winner in the end.

And as an answer to this the norwegian people have reacted with prays for more democracy, more openess; make the norwegian society even more "naive" (as I've shockingly heard US and UK news braodcaster say). Our way of life works, Anders Behring Breivik's, and the right wing conservatist's doesn't.

Last I wil just say to everyone that you should not take anything FOX-news says seriously. I've never in my life heard such twisted news coverage as their news coverage over this terror attacks. FOX-news is a fraud, and lot of their "news" is just lies..

Sorry for my bad english.

Thanks for the post.

In line with that, Norway's PM says 'we are going to answer hatred with love'.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43939974/ns/world_news-europe/
That's an honorable stance.

 

[Nielsa]

In Australia I can only think of maybe 10-15 people that are doing life in prison and will never see the light of freedom again, so it seldom happens here as well. Genuine question, is that '+5+5+5 etc.' for every person that he shot?

Ah, I should've clarified.
Once his 21 years (if charged with terrorism, or 30 years if they charge him with crimes against humanity) are up, a board of judges will review his case.

If they believe he still remains a threat to society, they can re-commit him to prison (without re-trial) for another five years.

This process can be repeated for the remainder of the prisoner's life.

So, no, it's not a 100% guarantee of lifetime prison. However I can't imagine that a board of judges, even 40 years from now, would let this man out of prison. Domestic journalists have been saying the same thing. Of course, that's just me and them - we don't know 100% for sure, just 99%.

(20 years from now, there will most probably be politicians in government who actually saw him shoot their friends on that island, or even future politicians who got shot and survived. Our future judges and lawyers are kids aged 10-20 who're watching this tragedy on the news. I really don't see any other option than containment for life.)

 

[Balleballe]

If he shows regret and a better view on the society, he will be set free before he dies.

Personal feelings and opinions have to give in to professionalism. And I hope we have the same humane policy in the future, and that this will not disturb anything.

But he will be a watched man when he gets out. Alot of people will be after him. And since i guess no countries will let him in to live a more anonymous life, he will be better off in prison.

 

[craig1985]

Ah, I should've clarified.
Once his 21 years (if charged with terrorism, or 30 years if they charge him with crimes against humanity) are up, a board of judges will review his case.

If they believe he still remains a threat to society, they can re-commit him to prison (without re-trial) for another five years.

This process can be repeated for the remainder of the prisoner's life.

So, no, it's not a 100% guarantee of lifetime prison. However I can't imagine that a board of judges, even 40 years from now, would let this man out of prison. Domestic journalists have been saying the same thing. Of course, that's just me and them - we don't know 100% for sure, just 99%.

(20 years from now, there will most probably be politicians in government who actually saw him shoot their friends on that island, or even future politicians who got shot and survived. Our future judges and lawyers are kids aged 10-20 who're watching this tragedy on the news. I really don't see any other option than containment for life.)

Thanks

Not a bad system there.

 

[python]

interesting stuff about the tragedy

as i was researching some aspects of the tragedy in norway, i had come across this sober, dispassionate analysis by stratfor. .

http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20110727-norway-lessons-successful-lone-wolf-attackerNorway: Lessons from a Successful Lone Wolf Attacker.

also, i am quite surprised that virtually no media including the main stream outlets, blogs (nor even the clinic) paid due to the fact that Breivik was a regular user of anabolic steroids.

the reasons for his crimes are certainly more complex than a simple steroid rage. but the well known effects of abusing peds should not be overlooked !!