Boonen VS Cancellara

[The Hitch]

It's really not that odd to find a non-sprinter in a top 10 of a flat stage.

lol top 10.

Troll much?

I wonder why anyone thinks Rujano has a chance at the Giro. I mean its not odd to find a non climber in the top 10 of a stage race

 

[El Pistolero]

1 Mario Cipollini (Ita) 5.30.03 (46.54 km/h)
2 Robbie McEwen (Aus)
3 Erik Zabel (Ger)
4 Andrej Hauptman (Slo)
5 Zoran Klemencic (Slo)
6 Jimmy Casper (Fra)
7 Jaan Kirsipuu (Est)
8 Sven Teutenberg (Ger)
9 Baden Cooke (Aus)
10 Julian Dean (NZl)

 

[Sylvester]

Yes, 10 sprinters there. It's not because you don't remember Hauptman and Klemencic that they were bad riders, you know. Hauptman was a top place getter who almost never won, Klemencic was more of a one-day fly, but both of them were pure sprinters.

Abraham Olano didn't make the top 10 in Zolder, did he?

 

[El Pistolero]

Did I say they were bad riders? They weren't good sprinters though, if you think they are then you're delusional. And the fact that you knew who I was talking about without any indication from me says enough

I wouldn't call Teutenberg or mister one day fly pure sprinters though. Don't you need to win sprints anymore to be called sprinter?


Cancellara isn't Olano now is he? Not that Olano was a great climber, but definitely a lot better than Cancellara.

In 2007 Cancellara nearly outsprinted Boonen at the E3 Prijs. Like I said, he always had enough power for a decent sprint, but he's not a sprinter and he'll never be one

He hasn't improved in sprinting since 2007.

 

[Sylvester]

Did I say they were bad riders? They weren't good sprinters though, if you think they are then you're delusional.

You might consider this result before dismissing Andrej Hauptman as a "bad sprinter". Anyway, this analogy is leading nowhere. This is your original quote:

It's really not that odd to find a non-sprinter in a top 10 of a flat stage.

We were not talking about "good" or "bad" sprinters, but about "non-sprinters". Well, Hauptman and Klemencic were definitely no "non-sprinters". Moreover, they were pure sprinters. You know, those who regularly contest mass sprints (and of course they won some as well). Those who use their sprint as a weapon. Thus, they can't be compared to Cancellara, they're more like, say, Michael Van Staeyen and Koldo Fernandez. Would you point to a result with Van Staeyen and Koldo Fernandez in the top 10 to call them "non-sprinters" and to compare them to Cancellara?

In your logic Amets Txurruka is not a climber because "he has to win MTF's before being called a climber", and Rojas and Boeckmans are no sprinters because they don't win enough sprints. Well, if you don't believe Hauptman and Klemencic were sprinters, then "you're delusional".

 

[El Pistolero]

Boeckmans is a neo pro

Klemencic was a big surprise that day, says enough.

 

[Sylvester]

Klemencic was 26 in 2002. I guess he suffered from a lot of injuries afterwards, never doing much of note again and ending his career at the age of 31.

Boeckmans, who is by no means a neo-pro (he was in 2010 with Topsport Vlaanderen), is 25 years old as of today.

Anyway, that most definitely was not what my post was about.

But please go on defending your ridiculous analogy.

 

[Caruut]

He was never close to win it. It's knowing your strengths and Cancellara made a big mistake for focusing on the road race instead of the time trial. If it was this year ok, but last year it made no sense... Even in a WC you can find a non sprinter there abouts. It's all about positioning and Cancellara obviously has the power to defend himself.

"thereabouts"?

Really?

If by "thereabouts" you mean he pretty much drew with Greipel in a sprint, then I guess he was thereabouts. Still don't understand why then couldn't rustle up a second bronze medal.

 

[El Pistolero]

Greipel, like always, was positioned like crap. Greipel would kick Cancellara's *** in 999 out of 1000 sprints.

Cancellara's biggest weakness(outside his team) will always be his sprint, that will never change.

 

[Caruut]

Greipel, like always, was positioned like crap. Greipel would kick Cancellara's *** in 999 out of 1000 sprints.

Cancellara's biggest weakness(outside his team) will always be his sprint, that will never change.

Yet they came in almost exactly together in the biggest race of Greipel's life. I agree that his biggest weakness is (and probably always will be) his sprint, but that's partly because the other aspects of his riding are phenomenally strong.

Besides, if Canc could sprint, then it'd just be unfair.

 

[El Pistolero]

Positioning bad is and always will be Greipel's biggest weakness

The WC isn't going to ignore that

 

[The Hitch]

Positioning bad is and always will be Greipel's biggest weakness

The WC isn't going to ignore that

Positioning is part of sprinting.

You can't just say, oh it was his positioning that let him down therefore the sprinting aspect doesn't matter.

The positioning is part of the sprint.

 

[Caruut]

Positioning bad is and always will be Greipel's biggest weakness

The WC isn't going to ignore that

He's still considered an elite-level sprinter, though.

 

[karlboss]

Cancellara should put a little focus on learning how to sprint for wins. Actually attempt it in a few smaller races.

 

[cineteq]

Cancellara should put a little focus on learning how to sprint for wins. Actually attempt it in a few smaller races.

We'll let him know, not to worry mate

 

[El Pistolero]

Positioning is part of sprinting.

You can't just say, oh it was his positioning that let him down therefore the sprinting aspect doesn't matter.

The positioning is part of the sprint.

With positioning alone you're rarely going to win a sprint though. Which is the point I'm making.

 

[will10]

"thereabouts"?

Really?

If by "thereabouts" you mean he pretty much drew with Greipel in a sprint, then I guess he was thereabouts. Still don't understand why then couldn't rustle up a second bronze medal.

Ehm. Because Greipel was 3rd and Cancellara was 4th. Tricky to understand?

 

[Caruut]

Ehm. Because Greipel was 3rd and Cancellara was 4th. Tricky to understand?

What was that meant to add at all? You've just deliberately misunderstood what I was saying, then acted all smug about it.

 

[iZnoGouD]

if he focus on sprint his other abilities will suffer, and he would have to really focus to it to be worth it.
the best he can do his continue with his normal training, throw a big attack and hope no one follows..

 

[meat puppet]

if he focus on sprint his other abilities will suffer, and he would have to really focus to it to be worth it.
the best he can do his continue with his normal training, throw a big attack and hope no one follows..

This might be so, but how dramatically? Considering the trade-off, in hypothetical terms, doesn't Canc have surpluses to spend to begin with? So surely he can let his threshold power drop some to gain sprinting abilities and still be dominant endurance-wise. Only less so, but anyhow. The question is whether he can pull the transformation off and attain the fast-twitch fibres in the first place, I guess.

Apart from having those, isn't sprinting largely about leg speed and positioning? Leg speed, for one thing, clearly isn't a limiter for Canc since he uses a high cadence anyhow.

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

Lets turn the question: could Boonen ever had become a good TT-specialist, if he focused on it?

I don't know, I don't care. Didn't happen, will never happen. Same with Canc.

 

[Angliru]

Lets turn the question: could Boonen ever had become a good TT-specialist, if he focused on it?

I don't know, I don't care. Didn't happen, will never happen. Same with Canc.

After his horrific crash, Jalabert went from a sprinter to an all-arounder. It's not impossible. It's up to him whether he feels the need to adapt to what his opponents have done to alter their strategy to defeat him. He's has the engine and the work ethic to do it.

 

[c&cfan]

After his horrific crash, Jalabert went from a sprinter to an all-arounder. It's not impossible. It's up to him whether he feels the need to adapt to what his opponents have done to alter their strategy to defeat him. He's has the engine and the work ethic to do it.

lol.. yes.. that was the reason.

just like with lance.. and kelly.. etc.

 

[karlboss]

Lets turn the question: could Boonen ever had become a good TT-specialist, if he focused on it?

I don't know, I don't care. Didn't happen, will never happen. Same with Canc.

Not the same thing. I doubt he needs to up his max Watts to win a sprint. As pistolero pointed out positioning is super important. Cancellara has speed, however maybe his positioning could do with a little work. How many tour stages is Cancellara in the finishing bunch of a sprint stage? Maybe he should try contesting the win, if nothing else just for practice for when he faces a group of 10 at the end of the ronde. Wouldn't cost him anything.

 

[greenedge]

Didn't he do that on the Champs last year???

Also an attack for Cancellara is practically a sprint ( just not near the finish line ).