Boonen VS Cancellara

[Wallace]

Another thing that helped Cancellara's success in 2010 was the surprise factor. He'd always been hugely strong, but in that year he reached a new level. Prior to 2010, he'd never been able to ride Boonen off his wheel, and Boonen said exactly that in an interview right before the 2010 Flanders ("to win he'll have to ride me off his wheel, and he won't find that easy to do" is pretty much the exact quote). Boonen was understandably devastated to find out that this was now the case. Up until 2010 Boonen could and did go head to head with Cancellara, exchange pulls and attacks, and win. However much it might gall him to accept that FC is stronger than him, he now knows it. So he'll use the advantages he has: a better team and better tactics. If he does find himself up the road with Fabian, Tom will let the stronger man do the bulk of the work. FC has let everyone know that he's the strongest rider in the world. Starting in 2011 all the other teams accepted this and integrated it into their strategies. The result hasn't been good for Cancellara's palmares.

 

[EvansIsTheBest]

Actually, the Boonen/Cancellara rivalry makes me think of another great rivalry in sport namely Federer/Nadal. Boonen being the prodigy like Federer and Cancellara being the physical beast like Nadal. Recently there was seemingly a shift in power toward Nadal/Cancellara and people were quick to declare both the greatest of their generation/all time. However, anybody that has followed cycling/tennis for a few years and seen Boonen/Federer at their absolute peak knows who the best will be when it will all be said and done. Boonen/Federer are not necessarily better but have a larger register than Nadal/Cancellara and do not need to rest on one tactic to win, but have a plan B which is a luxury that Nadal/Cancellara do not have.
Boonen elevated cobbled classics to the rank of an exact science (for example each of his win at Roubaix followed the same pattern) and his opponents despite knowing what he was/is going to do were/are unable to prevent him from winning, whereas Cancellara has yet to show he can win despite his adversaries trying to mark him out of contention. There is a reason why, while being as old as the other, one has 1 more P-R, 1 more Flanders, 3 more GW and 3 more GP E3. On the cobbles, Boonen has almost the double of Cancellara’s palmarès (just like Federer has almost the double of Nadal’s palmarès).
As for Cancellara having a good sprint, the two last times he won from a group was TdS 2008 and the Swiss nationals last year against Morabito. Which isn't exactly impressive when faced with Boonen's record/the fact that he so often fights for the win inside a small group.

 

[barmaher]

Nadal has won the last 5 H2H matches in Grand Slams. And he is 8-2 ahead in Grand Slams.

Does that make Gilbert Djokovic?

 

[mr. tibbs]

Nadal has won the last 5 H2H matches in Grand Slams. And he is 8-2 ahead in Grand Slams.

Does that make Gilbert Djokovic?

Haha nice.

I do like E is B's tennis analogy. Seems to fit pretty well.

 

[Wallace]

Actually, the Boonen/Cancellara rivalry makes me think of another great rivalry in sport namely Federer/Nadal. Boonen being the prodigy like Federer and Cancellara being the physical beast like Nadal. Recently there was seemingly a shift in power toward Nadal/Cancellara and people were quick to declare both the greatest of their generation/all time. However, anybody that has followed cycling/tennis for a few years and seen Boonen/Federer at their absolute peak knows who the best will be when it will all be said and done. Boonen/Federer are not necessarily better but have a larger register than Nadal/Cancellara and do not need to rest on one tactic to win, but have a plan B which is a luxury that Nadal/Cancellara do not have.
Boonen elevated cobbled classics to the rank of an exact science (for example each of his win at Roubaix followed the same pattern) and his opponents despite knowing what he was/is going to do were/are unable to prevent him from winning, whereas Cancellara has yet to show he can win despite his adversaries trying to mark him out of contention. There is a reason why, while being as old as the other, one has 1 more P-R, 1 more Flanders, 3 more GW and 3 more GP E3. On the cobbles, Boonen has almost the double of Cancellara’s palmarès (just like Federer has almost the double of Nadal’s palmarès).
As for Cancellara having a good sprint, the two last times he won from a group was TdS 2008 and the Swiss nationals last year against Morabito. Which isn't exactly impressive when faced with Boonen's record/the fact that he so often fights for the win inside a small group.

Except that Boonen has won P-R three times, and the last time he soloed into the velodrome.

 

[Forunculo]

Cancellara seems to be back his self old this season. Easy Canc

 

[El Pistolero]

The only time Cancellara nearly out-sprinted Boonen was in the E3 Prijs Vlaanderen 2007.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIUhUpi-5u0

 

[FignonLeGrand]

Actually, the Boonen/Cancellara rivalry makes me think of another great rivalry in sport namely Federer/Nadal. Boonen being the prodigy like Federer and Cancellara being the physical beast like Nadal. Recently there was seemingly a shift in power toward Nadal/Cancellara and people were quick to declare both the greatest of their generation/all time. However, anybody that has followed cycling/tennis for a few years and seen Boonen/Federer at their absolute peak knows who the best will be when it will all be said and done. Boonen/Federer are not necessarily better but have a larger register than Nadal/Cancellara and do not need to rest on one tactic to win, but have a plan B which is a luxury that Nadal/Cancellara do not have.
Boonen elevated cobbled classics to the rank of an exact science (for example each of his win at Roubaix followed the same pattern) and his opponents despite knowing what he was/is going to do were/are unable to prevent him from winning, whereas Cancellara has yet to show he can win despite his adversaries trying to mark him out of contention. There is a reason why, while being as old as the other, one has 1 more P-R, 1 more Flanders, 3 more GW and 3 more GP E3. On the cobbles, Boonen has almost the double of Cancellara’s palmarès (just like Federer has almost the double of Nadal’s palmarès).
As for Cancellara having a good sprint, the two last times he won from a group was TdS 2008 and the Swiss nationals last year against Morabito. Which isn't exactly impressive when faced with Boonen's record/the fact that he so often fights for the win inside a small group.

Its an interesting metaphor however maybe over complicates things. Isnt it true that in 2010 Boonen was way off best, Cancellara moved up to a new gear and this combined to leave Cancellara way out front.

Having seen both of them this year looks like Canc is good and Boonen is better than he has been for past 2 years. Maybe they will share RVV and PR

 

[Cancellator]

I think they both deserve a monument win this year. Maybe Flanders for Fabian and Roubaix for Boonen? Although some underdog might win again. It's an exciting year anyway.

 

[hmsgenoa]

Another thing that helped Cancellara's success in 2010 was the surprise factor. He'd always been hugely strong, but in that year he reached a new level. Prior to 2010, he'd never been able to ride Boonen off his wheel, and Boonen said exactly that in an interview right before the 2010 Flanders ("to win he'll have to ride me off his wheel, and he won't find that easy to do" is pretty much the exact quote). Boonen was understandably devastated to find out that this was now the case. Up until 2010 Boonen could and did go head to head with Cancellara, exchange pulls and attacks, and win. However much it might gall him to accept that FC is stronger than him, he now knows it. So he'll use the advantages he has: a better team and better tactics. If he does find himself up the road with Fabian, Tom will let the stronger man do the bulk of the work. FC has let everyone know that he's the strongest rider in the world. Starting in 2011 all the other teams accepted this and integrated it into their strategies. The result hasn't been good for Cancellara's palmares.

Some common sense here! Speaking of which one wonders why Fabian doesn't do some very specific work on his sprint. I think from now on he's going to need to otherwise he'll forever be giving others armchair rides to the finish (if a ride on his wheel can be described as an armchair ride!).

 

[Cancellator]

Some common sense here! Speaking of which one wonders why Fabian doesn't do some very specific work on his sprint. I think from now on he's going to need to otherwise he'll forever be giving others armchair rides to the finish (if a ride on his wheel can be described as an armchair ride!).

I would love to see a better sprinting Cancellara! I wonder if it is possible without losing some of his other qualities, though.

 

[Angliru]

Some common sense here! Speaking of which one wonders why Fabian doesn't do some very specific work on his sprint. I think from now on he's going to need to otherwise he'll forever be giving others armchair rides to the finish (if a ride on his wheel can be described as an armchair ride!).

Now here I agree with you and I was going to post the same thing. Some sprint specific training seems would maybe increase his chances since teams have caught on to how to occasionally nullify his strengths to their advantage.

 

[Angliru]

I would love to see a better sprinting Cancellara! I wonder if it is possible without losing some of his other qualities, though.

That is the risk.

 

[screaming fist]

Hasn't he said his sprint is something he wants to work on? Maybe for next year, after his 2nd olympic TT gold

 

[El Pistolero]

Yeah, just like Boonen said he wants to work on his time trial

 

[screaming fist]

Yeah, just like Boonen said he wants to work on his time trial

True.

Cance has sprinted in the drops in MSR iirc, so maybe that's his work on sprinting

 

[Wallace]

True.

Cance has sprinted in the drops in MSR iirc, so maybe that's his work on sprinting

A few years ago (maybe after the won the Tour de Suisse?) Cancellara said he always wanted new challenges, that after winning MSR and Paris Roubaix, he'd try for Flanders (which he obviously did), and that after that he might lose weight so he could contest LBL and Lombardia. Part of the interview was a bit of a dig at Boonen--that he didn't want to spend his career contesting the same few races, that he wanted to be all-round racer, not a specialist. I haven't heard him say anything like that for a while. He seems to decided that his current racing style, as The Most Powerful Man on Two Wheels, is what he does. He also seems galled by last year's losses, including the World's ITT. I wonder if he's still thinks losing a little muscle weight and giving Gilbert a run in the steeper monuments is still a possibility.

 

[Caruut]

A few years ago (maybe after the won the Tour de Suisse?) Cancellara said he always wanted new challenges, that after winning MSR and Paris Roubaix, he'd try for Flanders (which he obviously did), and that after that he might lose weight so he could contest LBL and Lombardia. Part of the interview was a bit of a dig at Boonen--that he didn't want to spend his career contesting the same few races, that he wanted to be all-round racer, not a specialist. I haven't heard him say anything like that for a while. He seems to decided that his current racing style, as The Most Powerful Man on Two Wheels, is what he does. He also seems galled by last year's losses, including the World's ITT. I wonder if he's still thinks losing a little muscle weight and giving Gilbert a run in the steeper monuments is still a possibility.

His first move has got to be getting a proper classics team. When's his contract with JB up? Would Lotto have the cash to splash on him?

 

[The Hitch]

Yeah, just like Boonen said he wants to work on his time trial

Has Boonen come joint 3rd in a worlds tt?

 

[El Pistolero]

That means nothing... Is Geslin a super sprinter all of a sudden?

He didn't come third by the way, he was fourth

In a sprint a lot of things can happen... In a time trial not so much... Boonen has never ridden the WC TT.

Cancellara has never won a sprint in his life, not even from a group of 3. At least Boonen has won a prologue lol.

 

[maltiv]

Hasn't he said his sprint is something he wants to work on? Maybe for next year, after his 2nd olympic TT gold

That was last year. He worked on his sprint ahead of Copenhagen and did an amazing sprint from 300 meters out or so to finish 4th. But he regretted it afterwards, admitting that this focus had caused him to lose some of his TT skills.

Still, it was a massive performance by him and only goes to show how versatile he is as a rider. If he didn't go so early he'd have beaten Greipel easily...

 

[The Hitch]

That means nothing... Is Geslin a super sprinter all of a sudden?

In a sprint a lot of things can happen... In a time trial not so much... Boonen has never ridden the WC TT.

Cancellara has never won a sprint in his life, not even from a group of 3. At least Boonen has won a prologue lol.

He only decided to focus on the sprint last year and already got a 4th in the most important sprint in the world.

Don't see what the fact that he didn't win any sprint before he even decided to focus on the sprint has to do with it. if anything it shows just how big his improvement has been.

 

[El Pistolero]

It's really not that odd to find a non-sprinter in a top 10 of a flat stage... Big deal over nothing. If you ask me, Cancellara was being dumb again for focusing on the road race over the time trial.

I really haven't seen any improvement what so ever as far as his sprinting goes the last 5-6 years.

 

[Cancellator]

It's really not that odd to find a non-sprinter in a top 10 of a flat stage...

Only it wasn't a random "stage" in a race, it was the WC, where I would assume people would be trying pretty hard to get a medal. Also, "top 10", as you put it, does not really convey how close he was to the top sprinters that day.

 

[El Pistolero]

Only it wasn't a random "stage" in a race, it was the WC, where I would assume people would be trying pretty hard to get a medal. Also, "top 10", as you put it, does not really convey how close he was to the top sprinters that day.

He was never close to win it. It's knowing your strengths and Cancellara made a big mistake for focusing on the road race instead of the time trial. If it was this year ok, but last year it made no sense... Even in a WC you can find a non sprinter there abouts. It's all about positioning and Cancellara obviously has the power to defend himself.