Boxing

Page 11 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
I think that's a fair assessment. But you have to agree with what I said to some degree - too many belts, too many weight divisions, and little pressure for great fighters to fight each other.

ILovecycling said:
1)Then you should watch the press conference after The Moment, he talked about Ward, he is back with Showtime and it looked like he has some intentions with him, so who knows, it would be awesome:eek:.On the other hand I dont know if this fight has a PR potential to make 1,5M+ PPV,hard to say...
Such a fight could be hyped to make big money. You're talking about possibly the two best P4P fighters in the world. Floyd could hype the fight, even though Ward is fairly quiet and bland. The real issue though is that Floyd can more easily hype, and make more money, fighting a washed-up Pacquio in a year or two, so why take the risk of fighting Ward if his goal is not to be the best, but fool some people into thinking he's the best by remaining undefeated?

Floyd can run his mouth all he wants, but he won't fight Ward. It won't happen. As I said before, Ward is too big, and too good.

Looks like Clay is trying to force Mayweather and Pacquaio to fight,nice:)
You mean Muhammad Ali?! How old are you?!?! My 87 year old uncle stopped calling him Clay about 40 years ago!
 
Aug 4, 2010
11,337
0
0
Alpe d'Huez said:
I think that's a fair assessment. But you have to agree with what I said to some degree - too many belts, too many weight divisions, and little pressure for great fighters to fight each other.


Such a fight could be hyped to make big money. You're talking about possibly the two best P4P fighters in the world. Floyd could hype the fight, even though Ward is fairly quiet and bland. The real issue though is that Floyd can more easily hype, and make more money, fighting a washed-up Pacquio in a year or two, so why take the risk of fighting Ward if his goal is not to be the best, but fool some people into thinking he's the best by remaining undefeated?
It could be,but imo even Mayweather vs Maidana II could be hyped better than Ward fight,or Pacquaio fight like you said,but in this case imo its fair.I still dont think Pacquio is gone,and if he fights Mayweather he will train hard half a year 24/7 to beat Floyd,and he is the only thread in Floyd's weight during all Mayweather's career.They are still 2 best fighters in their weights so why this disgrace:cool:

Floyd can run his mouth all he wants, but he won't fight Ward. It won't happen. As I said before, Ward is too big, and too good.
Yeah there is a small chance,only if Ward loses lot of weight (something like 154/8 pounds) than maybe,but the chance is pretty small.On the other hand what boxer did box 2 weight classes up to his normal?It would be really special from Floyd and he likes to be special.

You mean Muhammad Ali?! How old are you?!?! My 87 year old uncle stopped calling him Clay about 40 years ago!
Actually Im 88:D



...no kidding:p,Im quite young,but I dont like islam religion,thats why.Sorry if I disobliged you or something.
 
I'm going to let that be your issue.

Ward fights at 168, which means he walks around at about 175. It's possible he could cut weight and starch himself down to 160, maybe. But 154? It's not going to happen.

Many great fighters moved up in weight class just to fight better fighters. Some of them even skipped weight classes doing so. And some of them even won those fights. Just a glace through history, all of these fighters moved up more than one weight class to fight better fighters: Henry Armstrong, Michael Spinks, Roberto Duran, Alexis Arguello, Thomas Hearns, Sugar Ray Leonard, Julio Cesar Chavez, Pernell Whittaker, Oscar DeLaHoya, Johnny Tapia, James Toney, Miguel Cotto, Juan Manuel Márquez (can you guess who's next?) Manny Pacquiao. Even Floyd himself moved up in weight.

The question is, he mostly fights at 147, and seems comfortable at 154. Does he really want to try to bulk up at all at his age to 160 to fight Ward? At fight time Floyd would maybe weight a heavy 162, while Ward would weigh over 170. Ward would push Floyd around and punish him over time to an easy win by lopsided decision, or Floyd would quit late on his stool. The fight won't happen.

As to the Mayweather-Pacquiao fight, I will give Manny a chance, and agree he would train like no fight before. But I don't like the style match-up for him. I still like Floyd in such a fight by about 8-4 in rounds. Though as you say, there may be enough dislike and motivation to push the pace to where someone is KO'd (or TKO). Manny hits hard enough to maybe get some shots in, but it's more likely Floyd would eventually win. Styles make fights.
 
Aug 4, 2010
11,337
0
0
Alpe d'Huez said:
I'm going to let that be your issue.

Ward fights at 168, which means he walks around at about 175. It's possible he could cut weight and starch himself down to 160, maybe. But 154? It's not going to happen.
Yeah,its HIGHLY unlikely.I know its almost impossible to Ward move down to 160 and Floyd up to 160,but money talks (Ward is not very rich).

Many great fighters moved up in weight class just to fight better fighters. Some of them even skipped weight classes doing so. And some of them even won those fights. Just a glace through history, all of these fighters moved up more than one weight class to fight better fighters: Henry Armstrong, Michael Spinks, Roberto Duran, Alexis Arguello, Thomas Hearns, Sugar Ray Leonard, Julio Cesar Chavez, Pernell Whittaker, Oscar DeLaHoya, Johnny Tapia, James Toney, Miguel Cotto, Juan Manuel Márquez (can you guess who's next?) Manny Pacquiao. Even Floyd himself moved up in weight.
But this fighters lost at least once in their career and I think one of the reason is moving up the weight,it would be a huge risk to fight someone at 160 lbs for Floyd.And most of them are 'worse' boxers than Floyd imo cuz they lost a lot of times.I think people underestimate the status - Undefeated.Ok he didnt fight Pacquaio,or some of the others in prime (not even Pacman did that in all fights) but that he didnt lose in 17 years in 46 matches,it proves something.

The question is, he mostly fights at 147, and seems comfortable at 154. Does he really want to try to bulk up at all at his age to 160 to fight Ward? At fight time Floyd would maybe weight a heavy 162, while Ward would weigh over 170. Ward would push Floyd around and punish him over time to an easy win by lopsided decision, or Floyd would quit late on his stool. The fight won't happen.
I dont reallly agree with your prediction.Ward is a hell of a fighter but he is slow.If Floyd brings his A game,he wont catch him with this speed and very short arms.Of course Ward can put him on the ropes but thats questionable,if so,he has a chance to KO Floyd honestly and thats his only chance to beat him imo.

As to the Mayweather-Pacquiao fight, I will give Manny a chance, and agree he would train like no fight before. But I don't like the style match-up for him. I still like Floyd in such a fight by about 8-4 in rounds. Though as you say, there may be enough dislike and motivation to push the pace to where someone is KO'd (or TKO). Manny hits hard enough to maybe get some shots in, but it's more likely Floyd would eventually win. Styles make fights.
 
It sounds like you're paying a lot more attention to this than me. Maybe Floyd could beat Ward? But the Floyd I've recently seen doesn't have the foot speed he did a decade ago, so regardless of how slow Ward is, I don't see Floyd constantly dancing around and scoring enough to win. Maybe he would though.

I don't see Ward calling Floyd out. First, not his style. Next, bigger guys don't usually call out little guys. Not cool.
 
Aug 4, 2010
11,337
0
0
Alpe d'Huez said:
It sounds like you're paying a lot more attention to this than me. Maybe Floyd could beat Ward? But the Floyd I've recently seen doesn't have the foot speed he did a decade ago, so regardless of how slow Ward is, I don't see Floyd constantly dancing around and scoring enough to win. Maybe he would though.

I don't see Ward calling Floyd out. First, not his style. Next, bigger guys don't usually call out little guys. Not cool.
I'm sorry,probably my bad language skills.
Its about opinions, I think he has still incredible foot and hand speed (maybe a bit worse,but nothing serious) like years ago.This fight with Maidana was probably one of the fights when he was the worst prepared (same for Guerrero and Ortiz).It can be a decline, but imo in fall(september e.g.) fights he is always lot better.

Agree on bolded one,it would be stupid:D
 
Aug 4, 2010
11,337
0
0
Ferminal said:
Anyone see JMM v Alvarado? Sounds like it was entertaining. I guess they will cash in with a fifth v Pac now before it's too late, not sure why Pacquiao would take it though.
I havent seen it yet,but it looks he destroyed Alvarado pretty easily (according to scorecards).

bolded: Revenge!:cool::D

edit: and 5 is a nice number :D
 
Aug 4, 2010
11,337
0
0
I found imo one of the most important quotes of boxing in years.

TR promoter Bob Arum said:
"There's a lot of stuff happening now and we have to see how this all shakes out," Arum said. "It may actually end up that the fighters who end up with Golden Boy, meaning Oscar, could be available to fight Manny, and they'd certainly want to do that."
We have to pray that Oscar will win inner fight with Schaefer,and then we could have sport of boxing almost without any stupid boundaries!

source: Article post fight JMM vs Alavarado
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/juan-manuel-marquez-s-win-over-mike-alvarado-sets-up-fifth-fight-against-pacman----if-he-wants-it-053453624-boxing.html
 
May 24, 2014
15
0
0
Ferminal said:
Anyone see JMM v Alvarado? Sounds like it was entertaining. I guess they will cash in with a fifth v Pac now before it's too late, not sure why Pacquiao would take it though.
It was okay all in all. Much too one-sided to be called a good fight. There were some really good rounds late in the fight though, and that kind of made up for the rest of the fight i guess.
 
May 24, 2014
15
0
0
ILovecycling said:
I found imo one of the most important quotes of boxing in years.



We have to pray that Oscar will win inner fight with Schaefer,and then we could have sport of boxing almost without any stupid boundaries!

source: Article post fight JMM vs Alavarado
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/juan-manuel-marquez-s-win-over-mike-alvarado-sets-up-fifth-fight-against-pacman----if-he-wants-it-053453624-boxing.html
It would of course be great for boxing if the cold war ends. But i have my doubts that it will happen with Schaefer in charge of GB, he flat out refuses to work with Arum (can't say that i blame him either), and GB is pretty much nothing without Richard imo.
 
May 24, 2014
15
0
0
Quiet weekend of boxing this, with only a few quality fighters in action this week.. and any decent fighters in action this week are involved in complete mismatches.

But next weekend Froch vs Groves II. My God, i can't wait!!! :D
 
I'll repeat what I said before, he could finish 50-0 and he still won't be among the greats because he never fought anyone good in their prime. I'm sure he'll do the same for his next four fights. He'll fight a few guys he knows he can beat, then take on an already aged Pacquiao for his 50th win, a fight he should win somewhat handily.
 
Aug 4, 2010
11,337
0
0
Alpe d'Huez said:
I'll repeat what I said before, he could finish 50-0 and he still won't be among the greats because he never fought anyone good in their prime. I'm sure he'll do the same for his next four fights. He'll fight a few guys he knows he can beat, then take on an already aged Pacquiao for his 50th win, a fight he should win somewhat handily.
Yep,I agree.
Its all about money,if he will lose in future,his value will go down in a blink of an eye.

To be honest,I think in present boxing world,nobody will be among the greatest (at least not in next 20-30 years).If I do this analysis with your logic, (prime fights etc,which is reasonable) nobody do this nowadays,cuz of promoters,money etc.
Boxing has changed.
 
That is very true. I noted before I can't entirely blame Floyd for not fighting everyone else in their prime, because he just took advantage of a system set-up that way. There are so many belts, so many weight divisions, everyone is a champion. Plus, boxers got royally screwed by the likes of Don King and Bob Arum for years, now fighters often act as their own promoter (as Floyd does), or works with promoters merely looking to find easy money. It makes it much simpler, almost logical, for him to just fight whom he wants, when he wants, at what weight he wants.
 
Aug 4, 2010
11,337
0
0
Alpe d'Huez said:
That is very true. I noted before I can't entirely blame Floyd for not fighting everyone else in their prime, because he just took advantage of a system set-up that way. There are so many belts, so many weight divisions, everyone is a champion. Plus, boxers got royally screwed by the likes of Don King and Bob Arum for years, now fighters often act as their own promoter (as Floyd does), or works with promoters merely looking to find easy money. It makes it much simpler, almost logical, for him to just fight whom he wants, when he wants, at what weight he wants.
Yeah,but its a pity.

as we are talking boxing...
What are you thoughts to Cotto vs Martinez fight?
How did you react when you heard there will be Money vs Maidana rematch?And what do you expect?


As for me for the 2.,I was content,cuz I dont think there are many fighters who can surprise Floyd as Chino did in May.Garcia?Bradley?Khan?Marquez? all easier fights for him imo
 
Detailed account of Mayweather’s battered women. I hadn’t realized that it started long before the incident that finally landed him in jail. The guy really is a thug, and of course his run-ins with the law extend to incidents beyond women.

Floyd Mayweather is a misogynist. And not just a misogynist, but a batterer, and a serial batterer at that. This is a statement of fact that you will rarely see or hear from the professional boxing media, many of whom remain hopelessly dependent on the reigning box office king's goodwill for access. It's certainly not one you will hear from any of the assembled talking heads on Showtime, the CBS-owned cable network to which Mayweather is contractually wed. And while it may be easy enough to guess why the boxing media has been so willing to cover for Mayweather's sins, it's less obvious why so many others are so willing to look the other way.
In other boxing news, a lot of people are asking, who is Chris Algieri, Pacquiao’s next opponent. His main claim to fame seems to be a victory over hard punching Ruslan Provodnikov. But he really looks out of his element here, and even worse, he doesn’t have the kind of style that suggests a very exciting fight. Sort of like Rigondeaux, but not as good.

ILovecycling said:
What are you thoughts to Cotto vs Martinez fight?
How did you react when you heard there will be Money vs Maidana rematch?And what do you expect?
Cotto-Martinez hard to pick. In their primes, Martinez, easily, but now, I think Maravilla has declined a lot more than Cotto. He hasn't looked good against weak opponents in recent fights. I fear he could get schooled badly, but if he does, maybe he will retire. I really think he should, rather than continuing as a shell of what he once was. He depends so much on his speed and athleticism, and age is not kind to those qualities.

I would love to see MM take it to Floyd again, but I doubt it very much. He benefited last time from the shock value of what he did, going in there and throwing wild, unpredictable punches. That won't be a surprise this time. I think Floyd will handle him easily. If he doesn't, I will conclude that Floyd is finally declining seriously.
 
Aug 4, 2010
11,337
0
0
Merckx index said:
Detailed account of Mayweather’s battered women. I hadn’t realized that it started long before the incident that finally landed him in jail. The guy really is a thug, and of course his run-ins with the law extend to incidents beyond women.



In other boxing news, a lot of people are asking, who is Chris Algieri, Pacquiao’s next opponent. His main claim to fame seems to be a victory over hard punching Ruslan Provodnikov. But he really looks out of his element here, and even worse, he doesn’t have the kind of style that suggests a very exciting fight. Sort of like Rigondeaux, but not as good.



Cotto-Martinez hard to pick. In their primes, Martinez, easily, but now, I think Maravilla has declined a lot more than Cotto. He hasn't looked good against weak opponents in recent fights. I fear he could get schooled badly, but if he does, maybe he will retire. I really think he should, rather than continuing as a shell of what he once was. He depends so much on his speed and athleticism, and age is not kind to those qualities.

I would love to see MM take it to Floyd again, but I doubt it very much. He benefited last time from the shock value of what he did, going in there and throwing wild, unpredictable punches. That won't be a surprise this time. I think Floyd will handle him easily. If he doesn't, I will conclude that Floyd is finally declining seriously.
Very good point,I completely agree.
 
Aug 4, 2010
11,337
0
0
Hi to all boxing experts here ;)

how do you see today's may vs chino match?
Mayweather easy or a history breaking upset?

To me,Chino looks sharp better than ever :eek:, but hopefully it will be at least as good match as the last one. KO would be nice of course :D
 
Floyd is still an 8-1 favorite. I expect the fight to go pretty much the same as the last one, with Floyd moving more, scoring a little more, and Maidana not tiring as much, but he is aggressive, so who knows. But in the end I see another decision win for Floyd.

Again, Floyd won't fight anyone that is a serious threat to beat him. He never has, and never will. I expect a couple more fights against over-matched opponents, he'll try to hype up, then a final fight against an over-the-hill, washed up Pacquiao to end his career. After which he will proclaim himself the greatest boxer ever, since he never lost. Better than Ali, Leonard, Hagler, Robinson, Louis, etc. etc.
 
Aug 4, 2010
11,337
0
0
Alpe d'Huez said:
Floyd is still an 8-1 favorite. I expect the fight to go pretty much the same as the last one, with Floyd moving more, scoring a little more, and Maidana not tiring as much, but he is aggressive, so who knows. But in the end I see another decision win for Floyd.

Again, Floyd won't fight anyone that is a serious threat to beat him. He never has, and never will. I expect a couple more fights against over-matched opponents, he'll try to hype up, then a final fight against an over-the-hill, washed up Pacquiao to end his career. After which he will proclaim himself the greatest boxer ever, since he never lost. Better than Ali, Leonard, Hagler, Robinson, Louis, etc. etc.
But who is an not 'over-matched' threat to him NOWADAYS?
And who would be a better opponent than Pacquaio? tbh in a match against Bradley he looked sharp and fast, I dont think he is on a decline yet. maybe a bit but not more than floyd.

rank me please 5 best fighters from 140-154 according to you :)
Agree with your first paragraph.;)
 
You're right, there is no one, really. Unless he moves up in weight. But as I said about 10 posts ago, I can't entirely blame him, as the system is set-up this way. There are too many weight divisions, too many belts, he's his own promoter, and the media will hype every title fight of any kind as a monumental fight, while Floyd can make millions of dollars doing it.

I didn't watch the fight, but from what I can tell it went pretty much as I expected. Floyd winning somewhat easily. No monumental moments. Just like the rest of his career.

This doesn't mean he isn't any good. He's great. A highly skilled fighter. What it means is that when his career is over and historians look back on it, even if he's 50-0, he won't be revered the way he thinks he should, because he never fought anybody good in their prime. He avoided any chance over a 15+ year career to risk his chance at staying undefeated. There's no shining moment, no seminal fight where you look back and go "that was amazing". You look back at all the greats he wants to be considered better than, and all of them lost fights, but all of them did have those amazing moments, those great fights where they rose above all expectations, more than one. When I look back on Floyd's career I remember snippits of fights and thinking "too bad he never..." He's also going to be judged on his character, more than he thinks he is, and will come off to many like a nearly illiterate jerk with a reprehensible history of misogyny.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS