Boxing

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It may be just another tease, but after the fight last night, Floyd was asked about Pacquiao, and he replied, “let’s make it happen”. We’ll see if there’s anything to this after Manny’s upcoming fight, assuming he wins it, which he certainly should.

In Mayweather’s defense, which I don’t come to very often, he has fought a lot of world champions and future HOFers. Beyond Pacquiao, I don’t think he’s avoided anyone who stands out as someone he should have fought. The biggest criticism of him has been that he has often fought great fighters past their prime (de la Hoya, Moseley, Cotto; he also avoided Margarito when the latter was really feared, and of course if the Pacquiao fight is actually made, this will be another example), or forced them into unfavorable weight classes (Hatton, Marquez, and he used this ploy to avoid an earlier fight with Moseley). He also could have done what Pacquiao did, go up in weight classes to face bigger men, e.g., Martinez when he was in his prime.

I agree he won’t be considered as great as he thinks he is, but except for fighting Pacquiao in his prime, and these other points I mentioned, I don’t think there’s much more he could have done. Certainly there’s no one else out there now that he’s passing up who would make a decent match. To a large extent his legacy is defined by who was around to fight him when he was in his prime, and it also doesn’t help that he is a defensive, counter-punching specialist, so he doesn’t get into those epic toe-to-toe battles that the fans love.
 
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Yes,this fight wasnt really enjoyable. I think if he risked more he could have (maybe) KO Maidana on the canvas in 8 or 9 round with those uppercuts in lower body. Maidana looked hurt for few minutes,but then the 'bite' happen and that was practically end of the match.

About primes. I think its a bit overestimated. He only fight Cotto more after his prime than Pacquaio.Also when Pacman fought Margarito, he wasnt at his best either imo.

--- Pacquaio . Mayweather
Oscar 2008 2007
Hatton 2009 2007
Mosley 2011 2010
Cotto 2009 2012
JMM 2011/12 2009

Only one they didnt fight is each other and Mayweather didnt fight with Bradley, who imho is not a threat at all to him.So that only leaves him with Pacquiao fight.
Of course he could go up to middleweight, but tbh thats quite a ubelievebale scenario to guy who is 173cm fight classic middleweight at 160lbs.
I dont say he wouldnt hav won fights, I wish he did this, esp fight with maravilla could have been the missing epic one (how Alpe dHuez says :)).I still think he would have won as maravilla was a bit overrated,he only fight Williams of great fighters.But he was even in worse situation than Money competition wise.

About Pacman vs Mayeather fight. I hate people whinning about Pacman is after his prime, hell Mayweather is too. And he is 2 years older than Pac, even it doesnt look like this. Its a problem of Pacquaio he isnt as a champion to train properly and box younger than he is. He is 35 years old thats quite a good age for boxing.
Ali fought Norton at 35, Holyfield fought Tyson at 35, Mosley fought Vargas at 35,all those matches were one of their great, and they won.
Too many apologies for manny:), not only for Floyd.

Of course agree Pacman has more epic fights than floyd, he has better style to be entertainment, but cuz of this style he is not unbeatable. Mayweather on the other hand...
Its abour styles, I know you guys really follow boxing, so you know what is all about,but I think people like you (and me) should give more credit to Mayweather for not losing, I know the competition is not great but still its admireable. Apart from Bradley I fight, Pacman was just not good enough in those lost fights, and that never happend to Mayweather, and I think people dont give credit to him for that (of course he doesnt need any :D with his personality).

And I dont think its any less entertaining or interesting if they fight in 2015 instead of 2011. They are still 2 best fighters of this past decade from 140-154.Nothing changed about this.
 
Wow, is the Mayweather-Pacquiao fight really going to happen? At the very least, this is the most encouraging sign since the first attempt fell through five years ago:

Promoter Bob Arum told Yahoo Sports on Tuesday that Manny Pacquiao has agreed to terms for a May 2 bout with Floyd Mayweather, and that the only thing in the way of the long-awaited fight occurring is Mayweather's approval.

Arum said Mayweather's representatives have also agreed to the deal but have not been able to get Mayweather's agreement. However, there is no verification from anyone representing Mayweather whether Arum's side is accurate.
Unfortunately, the key figure in the whole deal is not yet on board. But if his reps are, it will be difficult for Mayweather to save face if he declines to go through with the fight.

The sources told Yahoo Sports that not only have the sides agreed for the fight to be May 2 at the MGM, but also on a 60/40 purse split that would favor Mayweather. Mayweather could make in the range of $120 million...

In order to pay the astronomical salaries the fighters will command, ticket prices will be scaled at an all-time high. The top ticket at the MGM Grand Garden is expected to go for $5,000 so that the arena can be scaled to produce a $40 million live gate.
This will also make it hard to back off. No other fight that could be made would make anything remotely close to this.

Arum refused Tuesday to speak about details, but said Pacquiao was on board with all terms.
Arum said he and Pacquiao were "ignorant about the drug-testing stuff," when Mayweather first made the request for testing in the 2009 negotiations. He said Pacquiao has educated himself on it and has no problem to being tested and readily agreed to testing as part of his deal in getting the Mayweather fight.
Hahaha, right, a fighter with fifteen years of pro experience was ignorant about drug-testing.

I'd still probably give this fight less than a 50-50 chance of happening. Despite his protests, this does look like Arum's trying to shame Floyd into accepting. Still, this is the first time I think that it's reached the point where anyone is claiming a date has been set, and that one fighter is completely on board. After seeing Manny struggle vs. JMM, whose style is a lot like Floyd's, Mayweather shouldn't be that worried that he might lose.
 
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Wow,I just wanted to post about it,but I see you americans are faster :p:D

Great info,I hope its made soon! (altough I want it to happen next year,as I might go to see it:()
But like you said,its still a very long way to an agreement,I give it 70%
 
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Alpe d'Huez said:
This fight should have happened six years ago when it was first announced. It's almost absurd at this point. Floyd is getting old and fights not to lose, Manny is getting old and ring worn.
Please name me 2 best welterweight fighters nowadays.
 
Alpe d'Huez said:
This fight should have happened six years ago when it was first announced. It's almost absurd at this point. Floyd is getting old and fights not to lose, Manny is getting old and ring worn.
This.

I might have been interested in this bout years ago, but at this point I just plain damn don't give a damn anymore whether these two ever face each other.
 
Having said that - the only thing this supposed bout might be good for is a halfway decent boxing party -

BYOB, I'll supply the chips, and we all split the cost of PPV. (Which is probably bound to be around $74, which I'm sure no sucker is willing to pay on his/her own.)
 
Of course this fight should have been made five years ago, not only because both were in their primes, but because there would have been plenty of time for a rematch, maybe a trilogy. Both fighters still are very good, though, not simply the best in their division, but head-and-shoulders above just about everyone else. Pacquiao has dominated everyone he has fought recently except Marquez, because of a style match-up problem (their fights have always been close), and Bradley, whom he did beat convincingly twice (though was robbed of a decision the first time). Mayweather has had trouble with no one but Maidana, and the second time around it was no contest.

This is still far and away a more intriguing match than just about anything else possible in boxing, not just in the WW division. The only other fighter who might be capable of dominating his opposition to this degree is Gennady Golovkin, but unfortunately, middleweight is the wrong place to be right now. He’s a little too big for Floyd and Manny, and a little too small for Andre Ward. He should be fighting Cotto or Alvarez, though. The Klitchskos are never going to fight each other, and other great boxers like Ward and Rigondeaux also lack a challenging opponent.

What’s really surprising to me is that nothing more has been announced since yesterday. Mayweather has to respond to a story like this, either confirming or denying that his reps have agreed to the fight. Yet AFAIK he’s been silent. Why? You’d think if he hadn’t agreed to anything, he’d say so, because the longer Arum’s claim goes unanswered, the more pressure mounts on Floyd to agree.

Update: Showtime, which televises Mayweather's fights, seemed to confirm Mayweather's interest.

Floyd Mayweather Jr. wants a fight with Manny Pacquiao more than ever, a top Showtime executive said Thursday, and negotiations continue to make the long anticipated bout a reality on May 2…

But [Stephen] Espinoza said there were still some issues to discuss, though progress has been made.
Espinoza, Showtime's executive vice president for sports, confirmed there have been parallel talks between Showtime and HBO over how the fight would be televised, and that those talks were ongoing. Pacquiao is an HBO fighter, while Mayweather would be fighting for the fifth time in a six-fight deal with Showtime.
An HBO spokesman said he was not aware of any talks, and said no HBO executives would comment on the possibility of the fight.
It would likely have the biggest pay-per-view price, too, expected to be in the $85-90 range.
 
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Merckx index said:
Of course this fight should have been made five years ago, not only because both were in their primes, but because there would have been plenty of time for a rematch, maybe a trilogy. Both fighters still are very good, though, not simply the best in their division, but head-and-shoulders above just about everyone else. Pacquiao has dominated everyone he has fought recently except Marquez, because of a style match-up problem (their fights have always been close), and Bradley, whom he did beat convincingly twice (though was robbed of a decision the first time). Mayweather has had trouble with no one but Maidana, and the second time around it was no contest.

This is still far and away a more intriguing match than just about anything else possible in boxing, not just in the WW division. The only other fighter who might be capable of dominating his opposition to this degree is Gennady Golovkin, but unfortunately, middleweight is the wrong place to be right now. He’s a little too big for Floyd and Manny, and a little too small for Andre Ward. He should be fighting Cotto or Alvarez, though. The Klitchskos are never going to fight each other, and other great boxers like Ward and Rigondeaux also lack a challenging opponent.

What’s really surprising to me is that nothing more has been announced since yesterday. Mayweather has to respond to a story like this, either confirming or denying that his reps have agreed to the fight. Yet AFAIK he’s been silent. Why? You’d think if he hadn’t agreed to anything, he’d say so, because the longer Arum’s claim goes unanswered, the more pressure mounts on Floyd to agree.
Very good post,I agree pretty much with everything,esp the last sentense...Ithink they should agree fast cuz there is not much remaining for press tour etc
 
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Alpe d'Huez said:
Sadly, it's these two.

Still, this fight should have happened years ago. Would have been much more interesting then.

Maybe I'm just old and remember the days of Leonard-Hearns, etc.
oh my,you lucky basterd :p:D
 
Alpe d'Huez said:
Sadly, it's these two.

Still, this fight should have happened years ago. Would have been much more interesting then.

Maybe I'm just old and remember the days of Leonard-Hearns, etc.
I think the Pac Man is the one who has deteriorated the most. Can't see him winning. The Hearns Leonard fights were great to watch. Hearns was a much better fighter when he went up to middleweight as the second fight showed but he fought too long and copped too much punishment. To hear him talk now is painful. Leonard never took too many beatings except for the Terry Norris fight and hard fights against Duran and Hearns but only in two fights.
 
It's kind of hard to explain what the "old days" were like to today's generation. Just a glimpse into the heavyweights; between March of 1971 and January of 1976, a short five- year time span, we had these fights:

Frazier-Ali 1 "Fight of the Century" (and it was)
Foreman-Frazier 1 "Sunrise Showdown"
Ali-Norton 1
Foreman-Roman
Ali-Norton 2
Ali-Frazier 2
Foreman-Norton "Caracas Caper"
Ali-Foreman "Rumble in the Jungle"
Ali-Frazier 3 "Thrilla in Manila"
Foreman-Lyle

Of course, one could create a list of the great WW and MW fights from the 80's as well.

As the old saying goes, you had to be there.
 
Alpe d'Huez said:
It's kind of hard to explain what the "old days" were like to today's generation. Just a glimpse into the heavyweights; between March of 1971 and January of 1976, a short five- year time span, we had these fights:

Frazier-Ali 1 "Fight of the Century" (and it was)
Foreman-Frazier 1 "Sunrise Showdown"
Ali-Norton 1
Foreman-Roman
Ali-Norton 2
Ali-Frazier 2
Foreman-Norton "Caracas Caper"
Ali-Foreman "Rumble in the Jungle"
Ali-Frazier 3 "Thrilla in Manila"
Foreman-Lyle

Of course, one could create a list of the great WW and MW fights from the 80's as well.

As the old saying goes, you had to be there.
One of boxing's most famous pictures:



So Money vs Pac Man, bring it on but don't ask me to pay for it.
 
Great photo. Here's another.



Floyd would like to be mentioned in the same breath as greats like Hagler, Hearns, Duran and Leonard. But here's something about the Sugar man Floyd could never touch: From November 1979 to September 1981, Leonard fought Wilfred Benitez, Roberto Duran (twice), Ayub Kalule, and Thomas Hearns. They had a combined record of 177-1-1 when he faced them, and all were at or near their prime. The fact that Ray lost one of these fights fairly (Duran 1), is meaningless in the eyes of historians, and his legacy.

If you look back at Floyd's career it wouldn't be right to compare him to someone like Gerry Cooney who made a name of himself fighting washed up former greats (Young, Lyle, Norton), while avoiding other contenders. But Floyd most risky fights were probably against Corrales and Hernandez, who were highly touted at the time, and Floyd whipped Corrales, and used deft skill in the Hernandez fight. But this was over a decade ago, and as time went on, the fights against Gatti, De La Hoya, Hatton, and Mosley were guys whose skills were definitely on the downside and well past their prime, with Floyd showing them the door. He did beat Marquez, but he was just coming up in weight. All of these fights occurred when he should have been fighting the other best fighter in the world, and the one guy with likely the best shot of beating him: Manny Pacqiao.

You know the rest of the story.
 
Alpe d'Huez said:
Great photo. Here's another.



Floyd would like to be mentioned in the same breath as greats like Hagler, Hearns, Duran and Leonard. But here's something about the Sugar man Floyd could never touch: From November 1979 to September 1981, Leonard fought Wilfred Benitez, Roberto Duran (twice), Ayub Kalule, and Thomas Hearns. They had a combined record of 177-1-1 when he faced them, and all were at or near their prime. The fact that Ray lost one of these fights fairly (Duran 1), is meaningless in the eyes of historians, and his legacy.

If you look back at Floyd's career it wouldn't be right to compare him to someone like Gerry Cooney who made a name of himself fighting washed up former greats (Young, Lyle, Norton), while avoiding other contenders. But Floyd most risky fights were probably against Corrales and Hernandez, who were highly touted at the time, and Floyd whipped Corrales, and used deft skill in the Hernandez fight. But this was over a decade ago, and as time went on, the fights against Gatti, De La Hoya, Hatton, and Mosley were guys whose skills were definitely on the downside and well past their prime, with Floyd showing them the door. He did beat Marquez, but he was just coming up in weight. All of these fights occurred when he should have been fighting the other best fighter in the world, and the one guy with likely the best shot of beating him: Manny Pacqiao.

You know the rest of the story.
Yep, essentially beautiful (picture). Can't fault Sugar Ray much and agree we have significant distance to current champs.

Money and Pac Man.
Sub prime and toys.

Motor City Cobra

Wild concoction of words, on the surface.
 
Pacquiao says Floyd has about ten more days to make up his mind:

"My promoter and I, we've already agreed to the terms and conditions of whatever he wants. We're just waiting on the signed contract from him," Pacquiao told the Los Angeles Times on Monday. "That's the hard part -- if they will fight or not. We have to know soon, because if they will not fight, we can move on and choose another opponent. We have a deadline … this month."
Doesn’t sound good. This was basically what happened five years ago. Manny got tired of waiting, even while Floyd was still expressing some interest, and moved on.

OTOH, Floyd, Sr., who last October predicted the fight would happen this year, is already talking trash:

“I see him giving Pacquiao a good beatdown,” Floyd Sr. said in an interview with Tha Boxing Voice. “Him bleeding at the ears, at the nose, at the mouth, around the eyes.”

He also claimed that Pacquiao doesn’t have the skills and punching power of Saul “Canelo” Alvarez, whom Floyd Jr. soundly defeated by majority decision.

“Pacquiao isn’t strong as Canelo. Pacquiao don’t box good like Canelo...Canelo’s much bigger, much stronger, hit much harder, a much better boxer,” said Floyd Sr.

When asked how his son plans to handle Pacquiao’s speed, which is clearly the Filipino boxer’s advantage over his previous opponents, Floyd Sr. said they already have a game plan in place.

“All you gotta do is time him… all he gotta do right now is time him to death,” said the boxing trainer.
Canelo is a little bigger and stronger than Pac, but he's not as good a boxer, and I don't think he hits harder.
 
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Merckx index said:
Pacquiao says Floyd has about ten more days to make up his mind:



Doesn’t sound good. This was basically what happened five years ago. Manny got tired of waiting, even while Floyd was still expressing some interest, and moved on.

OTOH, Floyd, Sr., who last October predicted the fight would happen this year, is already talking trash:



Canelo is a little bigger and stronger than Pac, but he's not as good a boxer, and I don't think he hits harder.
me neither.And Floyd Sr knows it too,just talking trash imho.He knows Pac is good,he knows boxing.

edit: I dont like the thing with deadline.
 
Big surprise. Arum is the problem:

Appearing on the online hip hop interview program, The Whoolywood Shuffle — hosted by DJ Whoo Kid — Mayweather broke his silence regarding the Pacquiao fight talks, claiming that he “absolutely” wanted to make the fight with Pacquiao, but there’s no deal on the table yet, and may not be as long as Arum’s company is involved.

“I’ve been saying this for a long time, Pacquiao has no say because he fights for Top Rank Promotions. He’s not in a position to call the shots right now. He’s not the A-side. I have Mayweather Promotions, it’s my company,” said Mayweather, whose 47-0 record could face its greatest threat in Pacquiao.

“He has a boss, it’s called Top Rank Promotions, not Pacquiao Promotions,” Mayweather continued.

“We’re trying but its been extremely difficult. I don’t want to point the finger at Pacquiao, it’s not him, it’s his promoter.”

In Los Angeles, Mayweather strength coach Alex Ariza — who formerly worked for Pacquiao — reiterated Mayweather’s position.

It’s not going to happen. We’re fighting May 2nd but it’s not going to be Manny Pacquiao… Hopefully eventually Bob Arum will blow away in the wind or whatever. As soon as we get rid of him, we can get it on.”
I understand Floyd's antipathy for Arum, who he had a bitter split with before over money, but why is this coming up now? Floyd said about a month ago that he hoped a fight could be made, but this was right after Pacquiao re-signed with Arum. Floyd knew that Arum would be representing Pacquiao in any fight.

If the arrangments in terms of money, location, gloves, etc., are to Floyd's liking, is he going to refuse just because he doesn't like Arum? Is there some specific problem with the fight because Arum is involved? I'm sure Floyd doesn't like the idea of Arum making money off a fight involving him, but Floyd would get his agreed-upon share. Also, Arum represents Cotto to some extent, who fought Mayweather before and is talked about as a possible future opponent.

The article also suggests that if the fight can't be made, Amir Khan might be an opponent. I'm not sure who they mean Khan would fight. Khan and Pacquiao know each other well, have been sparring partners, but Freddie Roach claims that Pacquiao has KOd Khan in several sessions, that a fight between the two would be no contest, so true or not, I don't think Pacquiao would fight Khan.

Would Mayweather fight Khan? Roach thinks Khan could beat Mayweather. I'd like to see that fight; it almost happened before, but Mayweather picked Maidana instead. Khan's speed would present problems for Floyd. Khan's biggest weakness is his chin, but that's not so much a problem with a defensive fighter like Mayweather.
 
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Merckx index said:
Big surprise. Arum is the problem:



I understand Floyd's antipathy for Arum, who he had a bitter split with before over money, but why is this coming up now? Floyd said about a month ago that he hoped a fight could be made, but this was right after Pacquiao re-signed with Arum. Floyd knew that Arum would be representing Pacquiao in any fight.

If the arrangments in terms of money, location, gloves, etc., are to Floyd's liking, is he going to refuse just because he doesn't like Arum? Is there some specific problem with the fight because Arum is involved? I'm sure Floyd doesn't like the idea of Arum making money off a fight involving him, but Floyd would get his agreed-upon share. Also, Arum represents Cotto to some extent, who fought Mayweather before and is talked about as a possible future opponent.

The article also suggests that if the fight can't be made, Amir Khan might be an opponent. I'm not sure who they mean Khan would fight. Khan and Pacquiao know each other well, have been sparring partners, but Freddie Roach claims that Pacquiao has KOd Khan in several sessions, that a fight between the two would be no contest, so true or not, I don't think Pacquiao would fight Khan.

Would Mayweather fight Khan? Roach thinks Khan could beat Mayweather. I'd like to see that fight; it almost happened before, but Mayweather picked Maidana instead. Khan's speed would present problems for Floyd. Khan's biggest weakness is his chin, but that's not so much a problem with a defensive fighter like Mayweather.
Khan is one option, the other option will be a Cotto rematch if Carnelo vs Cotto isn't happening.
 
Bleacher Report nails it.

Floyd Mayweather Would Confirm His Shortcomings by Choosing Cotto over Pacquiao.

If Floyd Mayweather chooses a rematch against Miguel Cotto over a long-awaited showdown with Manny Pacquiao, he...will prove once and for all that he cares more about protecting his ego and undefeated record than he does about competing in compelling and historically important prizefights, and at the end of his career, that’s all anyone will probably care about.

Mayweather has trained his fans to think of his career as a board game of Monopoly rather than a fighting campaign. In his mind, they should laud the vastness of his bank account and how smartly he’s gamed the system rather than worry about trivial matters like fighting the best opponents.

But maybe Mayweather is the best ever at other things. He could be the best ever at swindling fight fans out of their hard-earned money. After all, Mayweather made millions last year fighting a slow-handed slugger named Marcos Maidana twice, one who had already suffered losses at junior welterweight to Andriy Kotelnik, Devon Alexander and Amir Khan.

Or maybe he’s the best ever at avoiding his most obvious competition. Mayweather is sure adept at managing to avoid fighting Pacquiao, and he’s done it for about six years now.
 

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