British Doctor claims he doped 150 sports stars including Br

[sniper]

Re: Re:

They would need a court order for his records and as doping is not a criminal offence here in the UK, it would likely not be granted and due to confidentiality any testimony from Bonar himself would be inadmissible.

Well, that's very interesting.

After all, the fact that doping was not a criminal offence in Spain at the time was a large part of why it was so difficult to get anything actually achieved with Operación Puerto. And the fact that the authorities were so unwilling and unable to get anything achieved with Operación Puerto was a big reason why Spain has been constantly looked down on for its anti-doping record...

DUHHHH

I have been pointing out all the spitting on the Spanish and Italians is hypocrisie at it's best. They do ten times as much as the Northwestern Europeans yet are still seen as crooked.

The real rot is in Belgium, Netherlands, Germany and the UK. We simply refuse to sanction athletes and managers.

I expect nothing to come out of this. Nobody is interested in exposing Brittish athletes. Way too much cash involved.

Heck notice how people like Sam think cycling doctors are not Quacks, even when history teaches us it are allways quacks. But no, Sam is already dismissing this slandering of his heroes. Only Spanish athletes go to a quack doctor. Brittish athletes are much more intelligent and have a higher moral level.

Nothing to see here, walk along.

good post. seconded.

 

[Franklin]

Re: Re:

It's a Harley Street Dr. You do know how it works in Harley Street?

Good post.It's not as if athletes let themselves be injected with unknown substances.

Cyclists, especially brittish cyclists, are way too intelligent to do that.

Sure, we could look at facts and see that actually cyclists do go to quacks and take incredible risks by just letting anyone inject them with unknown stuff, but let's not look to closely now.

So I agree. Let's dismiss this out of hand.

 

[JRanton]

Re: British Doctor claims he doped 150 sports stars includin

Also, if you think about it logically then it's a bit far fetched to suggest that the only sportsman Dr Bonar worked with ended up getting caught for drugs. In fact the far more likely scenario is that there are at least dozens of others who he worked with that haven't been caught.

 

[Franklin]

All lies. There is no need to investigate this one.

 

[Bobby G]

Re: Re:

...
Hang on. I think there's been some confusion. The undercover athlete isn't the same as the sportsman (whistleblower) who was banned by UKAD for drugs in 2014 and revealed his story to the Times. The undercover athlete was just used by the Sunday Times in late 2015 to get information out of Bonar and has never taken drugs.

EDIT - Reading one of the key extracts on twitter it states that the whistleblower (banned sportsman) had achieved ''some of the best times of his life while taking banned substances''. So that strongly suggests the banned sportsman was an athlete (track?) and therefore not JTL.

exactly.

JTL could be the guy who blew Boner's whistle with UKAD.

Obviously JTL was never going to be the undercover guy.

Yeah, but read my EDIT to that post. The Sunday Times article appears to rule out the banned sportsman being a cyclist by describing him as having achieved ''some of the best times'' of my life while taking banned substances. That suggests a runner doesn't it? The list of athletes (runners) banned by UKAD in 2014 will be very small. Somebody find the list please!

It's not a runner. The article quotes The good Dr as saying this [the undercover reporter] was the first time he'd helped a runner.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

They would need a court order for his records and as doping is not a criminal offence here in the UK, it would likely not be granted and due to confidentiality any testimony from Bonar himself would be inadmissible.

Well, that's very interesting.

After all, the fact that doping was not a criminal offence in Spain at the time was a large part of why it was so difficult to get anything actually achieved with Operación Puerto. And the fact that the authorities were so unwilling and unable to get anything achieved with Operación Puerto was a big reason why Spain has been constantly looked down on for its anti-doping record...

UKAD can't do anything without legally obtaining his files, in this situation I believe this can not happen without consent from the athletes which none of them would give and hell I don't blame them.

I don't blame them either, but it's more about the fact that we have had a decade of mudslinging about the Spanish going easy on doping, when the fact that doping was not criminalized and the justice system was holding the evidence so the anti-doping authorities couldn't get their hands on it whether they wanted to make any cases or not was one of the main reasons Puerto wasn't going anywhere. And now we find out that, actually, Britain is exactly where Spain was a decade ago - the authorities are hamstrung in their ability to act upon doping activities because doping is not a criminal offence.

I'm not directing anything at you personally at all (and I don't think you were reading me as saying that either), but for me I think it's very interesting to discover that for all the disparaging, snide and cynical comments over the years about the Spanish system protecting its dopers, the British system has the very same flaw that enabled that in it (I note your post about the anti-criminalization thing because of discouraging whistleblowers, which does make some sense I guess). Personally, I don't think this guy is likely to be anything on the scale of Fuentes, even remotely. His figures and statements seem pretty exaggerated. But the sudden publicisation of such a gaping hole in UKAD's ability to combat doping (seemingly not through their own fault) suddenly puts a lot of the prejudices about various countries' doping practices into a little more context.

 

[JRanton]

Re: Re:

...
Hang on. I think there's been some confusion. The undercover athlete isn't the same as the sportsman (whistleblower) who was banned by UKAD for drugs in 2014 and revealed his story to the Times. The undercover athlete was just used by the Sunday Times in late 2015 to get information out of Bonar and has never taken drugs.

EDIT - Reading one of the key extracts on twitter it states that the whistleblower (banned sportsman) had achieved ''some of the best times of his life while taking banned substances''. So that strongly suggests the banned sportsman was an athlete (track?) and therefore not JTL.

exactly.

JTL could be the guy who blew Boner's whistle with UKAD.

Obviously JTL was never going to be the undercover guy.

Yeah, but read my EDIT to that post. The Sunday Times article appears to rule out the banned sportsman being a cyclist by describing him as having achieved ''some of the best times'' of my life while taking banned substances. That suggests a runner doesn't it? The list of athletes (runners) banned by UKAD in 2014 will be very small. Somebody find the list please!

It's not a runner. The article quotes The good Dr as saying this [the undercover reporter] was the first time he'd helped a runner.

You're right it does. What do you think ''best times'' refers to then? Swimming, triathlon?

 

[Franklin]

Re: Re:

the British system has the very same flaw that enabled that in it

That's not a flaw, that's how it is intended.

Do you seriously think nobody in sports government/politics failed to spot this "oversight"? It's one thing to *** upon the Spainiards and Italians (also because they are unpopular anyways due to the crisis^^), but there's no way that we are going to expose our own athletes.

I'm actually at a loss that you only noticed the hypocrisy now. The evidence of the lack of political effort to fight doping is shameful. At least Spain gets people to court. We sure as hell don't let it get that far.

 

[Cannibal72]

Re: Re:

Um, no. In this country, the truth is not a watertight defence to a libel action, so just...no.

It is. Where's your LL.B. from, the University of Google?

Nice jibe. Now try reading my post.

 

[samhocking]

There are no 150 pro athletes, it's a sales pitch guys. He's an anti-ageing Dr operating out of the same clinic address as hundreds of other Harley Street Dr's offering prescriptions and alternative (expensive) treatments to those that won't get it via ethical and NHS methods. i.e. plastic surgery, anti-ageing, cancer treatment, slimming etc etc. In 2015 he was exposed for basically prolonging the suffering of a cancer sufferer in order to continue selling his 'alternative' prescriptions instead of the right prescription that would be more effective for her. This was a pretty big story in national press in December 2015.
I would say, he has some basic PED knowledge from his cellular anti-ageing specialism and simply filling the gap in 2016 now he's been disgraced. You can just tell this story will go nowhere, there's nothing in it other than the guys a creep of a Dr.

 

[Franklin]

Re:

There are no 150 pro athletes, it's a sales pitch guys.

Your record is stuck Sam. Good to see you are able to skip the whistleblower problem as a true believer.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

the British system has the very same flaw that enabled that in it

That's not a flaw, that's how it is intended.

Do you seriously think nobody in sports government/politics failed to spot this "oversight"? It's one thing to **** upon the Spainiards and Italians (also because they are unpopular anyways due to the crisis^^), but there's no way that we are going to expose our own athletes.

I'm actually at a loss that you only noticed the hypocrisy now. The evidence of the lack of political effort to fight doping is shameful. At least Spain gets people to court. We sure as hell don't let it get that far.

indeed.

if this were just some flaw in the legal system it begs the question why UKAD never flagged it.

 

[John de Savage]

Re: British Doctor claims he doped 150 sports stars includin

Got news on the #doping story. Stay tuned for teams & names.

Leicester: Mahrez, Kante, Okazaki, Drinkwater
Arsenal: Welbeck and Gabriel
Chelsea: Traore, Willian, Costa
Spurs: Alli, Toby and Lamela

https://twitter.com/Ainsworth1980/status/716373169637101568

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

...
It's not a runner. The article quotes The good Dr as saying this [the undercover reporter] was the first time he'd helped a runner.

(sorry, i'm screwing up the quoting)
you were right that "times" would normally not refer to yclists, but I guess that could be a case of the reporter choosing the wrong word.
so i guess it could still be JTL, just that with "times" what is meant is "achievements".
but sure, JTL is just one of many candidates, I think.

 

[thehog]

Re:

All lies. There is no need to investigate this one.

Awful lot of denial going on around here. Soon we'll be at "never tested positive".

The article certainly proves a few points;

PED use at a top level is a alive and well in Britain, testing is not working as no one is testing positive, prescribing PED drugs is very simple and unsanctionable by UKAD, the doping authority in Britain turns a blind eye to doping or possible doping, UKAD is powerless, anti-doping is PR, all sports are doping just like they always have. Nothing has changed.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: British Doctor claims he doped 150 sports stars includin

Got news on the #doping story. Stay tuned for teams & names.

Leicester: Mahrez, Kante, Okazaki, Drinkwater
Arsenal: Welbeck and Gabriel
Chelsea: Traore, Willian, Costa
Spurs: Alli, Toby and Lamela

https://twitter.com/Ainsworth1980/status/716373169637101568

I'd be shocked

 

[Ramon Koran]

Dont believe the names for one second, what's his source? I hope these players reputation don't get tarnished because of misinformation if such is the case.

 

[vedrafjord]

Re: Re:

Tiernan-Locke?

I would have said the same.

JTL's blood values were so silly when he got caught that I think he was just ordering EPO off some dodgy Chinese website and taking Pantani-size doses - if there was a doctor involved they must have been a complete idiot.

 

[thehog]

Re:

Dont believe the names for one second, what's his source? I hope these players reputation don't get tarnished because of misinformation if such is the case.

Agreed. Clearly the athlete involved tested positive, is bitter and twisted and wants to get a book deal. Certainly hasn't raised $500m for cancer research.

 

[samhocking]

All we know is:

1. Banned athlete tries to reduce ban with UKAD in 2014. Gives some information on Dr Bonar for UKAD to pursue.
2. UKAD say they haven't enough evidence to take up the case.
3. Bonar struck of BMC after his 2015 cancer treatment scandal
3. We assume banned athlete then passes (sells) same UKAD information to Sunday Times because Bonar, no longer practicing under BMC in 2016
4. Sunday Times sends an undercover reporter pretending to be an amateur athlete with his Uncle because he want's to make Olympic Trials.
5. For several hundred £ Bonar prescribes a PED

There's just nothing in this story to me, other than a banned athlete trying to get his ban reduced and Dr Bonar believing his own hype to sell £20 of PED for £700 out of Harley Street.

 

[HSNHSN]

Re: British Doctor claims he doped 150 sports stars includin

It's good to see that finally some investigation has gone on about doping in the UK. I'd be surprised, though, if this is 'the big fish' in UK doping. I haven't read the article in the Sunday Times and I don't think I will. Can anyone describe which PEDs the doctor claims to prescribe that are also mentioned in the article?

Apart from that, what's making me most suspicious is that dr. Bonar apparently claims to have prescribed PEDs for seven years. Which is exactly the time frame of existence for the Sky cycling team. This just seems too much of a coincidence.

 

[Bobby G]

Re: Re:

...
It's not a runner. The article quotes The good Dr as saying this [the undercover reporter] was the first time he'd helped a runner.

(sorry, i'm screwing up the quoting)
you were right that "times" would normally not refer to yclists, but I guess that could be a case of the reporter choosing the wrong word.
so i guess it could still be JTL, just that with "times" what is meant is "achievements".
but sure, JTL is just one of many candidates, I think.

Or more likely, that the doctors turn of phrase was poor. Didn't strike me as a linguist in the video.

 

[samhocking]

Also, I thought everyone in the clinic thinks Leinders was the reason for British Tour de France winner ; )

 

[TheGreenMonkey]

Re: Re:

...
It's not a runner. The article quotes The good Dr as saying this [the undercover reporter] was the first time he'd helped a runner.

(sorry, i'm screwing up the quoting)
you were right that "times" would normally not refer to yclists, but I guess that could be a case of the reporter choosing the wrong word.
so i guess it could still be JTL, just that with "times" what is meant is "achievements".
but sure, JTL is just one of many candidates, I think.

Times could refer to TT times or times up climbs, perhaps even training climbs that the cyclist climbs regularly and could easily measure their improvement in times.

 

[thehog]

Re:

Also, I thought everyone in the clinic thinks Leinders was the reason for British Tour de France winner ; )

The theory veritably fits. Leinders was providing "screening" and the Zorzoli connection component for "never tested positive"..

Thanks for closing the circle though, makes more sense.