British Doctor claims he doped 150 sports stars including Br

[samhocking]

Well he describes himself as a Concierge Doctor, so he has no fixed address as such. He will pay by the minute for a room in various locations depending on the client and the relationship I'd imagine. No 10 Harley St is basically a practice, you rent a room by the minute to meet clients, write prescriptions etc etc.

 

[gillan1969]

Re:

UKAD could have athletes banned from working with Bonar. The problem is, when they asked for evidence from Dan Stevens, he didn't know a single name. This is what they're saying. They can investigate an athlete and a Dr under their jurisdiction. To investigate just a Dr though requires the GMC.

yup it's more than my jobsworth...

so the job of policing doping in the UK can't done by the 'police'....

but people who aren't the 'police' can police it..

welcome to the zany world of international sports administration......fortunes can be made

 

[samhocking]

Coming back to UKAD's response. They are limited by WADA code in what they can and can't investigate in terms of intelligence from whistleblowing and reduced bans:

"There is an important distinction between useful information and information which constitutes ‘substantial assistance’. The information provided by the sportsperson was assessed in detail but did not meet the definition of ‘substantial assistance’ in the World Anti-Doping Code."

Had Dan been able to give substantial assistance, no doubt his ban would have been much more reduced and UKAD investigated further. As far as they knew (well before sunday times investigation and Bonar's 150 atheletes line) was Dan said there's a boxer he's treated. Big deal, who would pump a load of limited resources into simply a cyclist saying there's a boxer out there somewhere who's also a client like me, but when asked for more evidence had none?

 

[samhocking]

Re: Re:

No doubt Bonar knows what he's doing. By essentially being no different than your local GP, he only has to maintain todays twitter statement "I have never prescribed Androgen therapy for the purpose of performance enhancement.. I treat symptomatic men with low Test levels". As long as he maintains this, as a GP he's only answerable to the GMC who have already struck him off anyway. I don't know what the loophole is that allows him to still write prescriptions out, but no doubt it exists as Harley Street is full of them.

I can't find a report that will confirm it, but as the disciplinary case against him for giving unconventional treatments to a terminal cancer case without disclosing her prognosis is not yet concluded, is it not likely that he is suspended rather than actually struck off? That would explain why he is not supposed to be practising or prescribing. He has lately been at the "Omniya Mediclinic" on Montpelier Street in Knightsbridge, London (rather than Harley Street) and they have chucked him out over those revelations. I can't discover if he was never entitled to practise in England, but I would have thought that if that were so, the malpractice case would have taken a different form.

He is registered as a GP with GMC, but no longer has a licence to practice in UK. Omniya is just an address of clinics like 10 Harley Street.

 

[gillan1969]

Re:

Coming back to UKAD's response. They are limited by WADA code in what they can and can't investigate in terms of intelligence from whistleblowing and reduced bans:

"There is an important distinction between useful information and information which constitutes ‘substantial assistance’. The information provided by the sportsperson was assessed in detail but did not meet the definition of ‘substantial assistance’ in the World Anti-Doping Code."

Had Dan been able to give substantial assistance, no doubt his ban would have been much more reduced and UKAD investigated further. As far as they knew (well before sunday times investigation and Bonar's 150 atheletes line) was Dan said there's a boxer he's treated. Big deal, who would pump a load of limited resources into simply a cyclist saying there's a boxer out there somewhere who's also a client like me, but when asked for more evidence had none?

sorry?..so they would have investigated had they known what they would uncover should they investigate? bloomin 'eck

and....eh...that's why they didn't investigate...just in case you've not quite got how this works.....

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re: Re:

No doubt Bonar knows what he's doing. By essentially being no different than your local GP, he only has to maintain todays twitter statement "I have never prescribed Androgen therapy for the purpose of performance enhancement.. I treat symptomatic men with low Test levels". As long as he maintains this, as a GP he's only answerable to the GMC who have already struck him off anyway. I don't know what the loophole is that allows him to still write prescriptions out, but no doubt it exists as Harley Street is full of them.

I can't find a report that will confirm it, but as the disciplinary case against him for giving unconventional treatments to a terminal cancer case without disclosing her prognosis is not yet concluded, is it not likely that he is suspended rather than actually struck off? That would explain why he is not supposed to be practising or prescribing. He has lately been at the "Omniya Mediclinic" on Montpelier Street in Knightsbridge, London (rather than Harley Street) and they have chucked him out over those revelations. I can't discover if he was never entitled to practise in England, but I would have thought that if that were so, the malpractice case would have taken a different form.

He is registered as a GP with GMC, but no longer has a licence to practice in UK. Omniya is just an address of clinics like 10 Harley Street.

It appears to be the case that the malpractice case against him is likely to have prevented him from renewing his licence, or if not he has failed to do whatever it takes. The reports don't actually say. In any event, with regard to your earlier comment, it's clear that legally he can't prescribe and there are no loopholes that would allow that, which is a small blessing.

 

[samhocking]

Re: Re:

Coming back to UKAD's response. They are limited by WADA code in what they can and can't investigate in terms of intelligence from whistleblowing and reduced bans:

"There is an important distinction between useful information and information which constitutes ‘substantial assistance’. The information provided by the sportsperson was assessed in detail but did not meet the definition of ‘substantial assistance’ in the World Anti-Doping Code."

Had Dan been able to give substantial assistance, no doubt his ban would have been much more reduced and UKAD investigated further. As far as they knew (well before sunday times investigation and Bonar's 150 atheletes line) was Dan said there's a boxer he's treated. Big deal, who would pump a load of limited resources into simply a cyclist saying there's a boxer out there somewhere who's also a client like me, but when asked for more evidence had none?

sorry?..so they would have investigated had they known what they would uncover should they investigate? bloomin 'eck

and....eh...that's why they didn't investigate...just in case you've not quite got how this works.....

I think the point is, they need at least more than 'there's a boxer' kind of evidence to go on. You go to your local police station and say someone stole £100K from under my bed and it was "a man with brown hair" and see how serious they'll take you!

 

[kwikki]

Re: Re:

UKAD could have athletes banned from working with Bonar. The problem is, when they asked for evidence from Dan Stevens, he didn't know a single name. This is what they're saying. They can investigate an athlete and a Dr under their jurisdiction. To investigate just a Dr though requires the GMC.

yup it's more than my jobsworth...

so the job of policing doping in the UK can't done by the 'police'....

but people who aren't the 'police' can police it..

welcome to the zany world of international sports administration......fortunes can be made

You're are kind of spot on with this.

It's a very nuanced situation with no one single viewpoint across the whole array of vested interests. Within the current UK government there are a range of views of criminalisation of doping, with sports minister Tracy Crouch open to a discussion. Of course, UKAD are against it because it undermines their position, and they would cede ground and influence to law enforcement agencies with bigger budgets. UKAD is a minnow.

Interestingly, and for the cynics, there was a petition to government to criminalise doping after the 2012 Olympics.

Who tabled it? None other than the chairman of the British Olympic Committee (2005-12), former sports minster and ex-Olympic athlete, Lord Moynihan.

It's politics, and frankly anti-doping is way down on the agenda for a country with huge structural economic issues.

 

[Hawkwood]

Re: Re:

UKAD could have athletes banned from working with Bonar. The problem is, when they asked for evidence from Dan Stevens, he didn't know a single name. This is what they're saying. They can investigate an athlete and a Dr under their jurisdiction. To investigate just a Dr though requires the GMC.

yup it's more than my jobsworth...

so the job of policing doping in the UK can't done by the 'police'....

but people who aren't the 'police' can police it..

welcome to the zany world of international sports administration......fortunes can be made

Police numbers in the UK have been cut, with further reductions in the pipeline. Given this I don't think the police would welcome being asked to investigate doping, nor would they have the resources.

 

[samhocking]

UKAD got £7m a year from state funding. Think their funding is now cut 25% this year, so no doubt they need a bit more meat to investigate withthan simply Dan's 'a boxer' line. They said themselves at announcement of the cuts, with the 25% less funding they would be dead in the water in the fight against doping. I think they said something like "Something's got to give, so the testing would certainly go."

 

[wrinklyvet]

It appears from this that UKAD may originally have relied on information from Stevens but were embarrassed when some of it turned out to be false or at least led nowhere.

Stevens also said he knew of an athlete trafficking banned substances, prompting UKAD officials to contact border control officers. The raid on the athlete proved unsuccessful, however. Officers found nothing — a source, apparently, of some embarrassment to UKAD.

Apart from the obvious problems with evidence referred to by samhocking above, this may explain a lack of enthusiasm (if there was one) to take matters further at the time.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sp...ier-League-football-revealed-Dan-Stevens.html

 

[samhocking]

UKAD are partnered with the National Crime Agency. This allows them to at least raid addresses of athletes, dealers, doctors, illegal labs etc. Again though, they need to have confidence in their intelligence from a whistleblower.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Don't post much in the Clinic these days but just wanted to put my 2 cents in and say this is no surprise to me at all. Or should it be to any serious fan if you want my honest truth.

Some interesting responses here. Keep them coming.

 

[thehog]

Re:

Don't post much in the Clinic these days but just wanted to put my 2 cents in and say this is no surprise to me at all. Or should it be to any serious fan if you want my honest truth.

Some interesting responses here. Keep them coming.

It's like we've learnt nothing from every other doping scandal. I understand fans want to downplay events on doping, facing the question that your favourite athlete is doper is hard for some to contemplate. In cycling, when there's a sniff of a doping problem it inevitably turns out to take down the biggest stars.

As for the whistle blower; he spent £60,000 of his own money to try and bring it to the attention of those with the power to do something about it. Why would he do that if it was a bunch of Cat 3 riders spending £800 a visit?

Fuentes had a assistant, he was severely dyslexic. It is thought he messed up the Siberia blood bags as the letters became jumbled. He was the interface to the riders. Small time guy doing the leg work for the Doctors.

Then there was "white dove"; she delivered EPO to riders in the might in the 2000s. She was a nurse from a hospital in Spain, hence her name.

Landis received his blood bags via an autograph hunger at the Tour....

Point being; nothing about doping has ever been normal, or looked anything realistic. Doping is ridiculous, it's use is even more ridiculous. A doctor wearing a pink shirt with a plaid jacket big noting himself to athletes is the norm. That's how doping is. It's these types of people & nut jobs who get involved in it because it is so ridiculous...

The story has legs and fairly obvious there's a lot more to it then this first sampling....

Manzano recounted how riders paid a nurse whose nickname was the Paloma Blanca (white dove) to transport the doping products between hotels to avoid detection from police and racing officials.

“She was paid 27,000 euros to do this. Each cyclist paid 3000 euros,” he said. “She carried EPO, testosterone, synthetic hemoglobin from hotel to hotel.”

 

[kwikki]

Agreed. The Boner guy comes across as a despicable creep. Hideous in fact. He may or may not have been exaggerating his 150 clients, time will tell, but he was obviously trying to drum up custom as a doping doctor. If he was exaggerating, this doesn't mean all is rosy in UK sport as he obviously felt there was a market.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

Couple of points re this doc.

1. Top athletes will know what substances they want and by going to one " outside " the system they create " plausible deniability " for there teams.
2. Bragging.... Doc,s..doping suppliers ...come in all types of personality.
Back in my day I recall a meet at Herne Hill track in London were I was feeling a bit under the weather. I mentioned this in the changing rooms to the sougnior of a former Brit World Champion.
With no prompting from me he quickly offered me "something that would take all my ( cold) symptoms away and have me "flying".
I refused.

seconding maxiton, good to see you back.

two very interesting points here.

 

[samhocking]

Re: Re:

Don't post much in the Clinic these days but just wanted to put my 2 cents in and say this is no surprise to me at all. Or should it be to any serious fan if you want my honest truth.

Some interesting responses here. Keep them coming.

It's like we've learnt nothing from every other doping scandal. I understand fans want to downplay events on doping, facing the question that your favourite athlete is doper is hard for some to contemplate. In cycling, when there's a sniff of a doping problem it inevitably turns out to take down the biggest stars.

As for the whistle blower; he spent £60,000 of his own money to try and bring it to the attention of those with the power to do something about it. Why would he do that if it was a bunch of Cat 3 riders spending £800 a visit?

Fuentes had a assistant, he was severely dyslexic. It is thought he messed up the Siberia blood bags as the letters became jumbled. He was the interface to the riders. Small time guy doing the leg work for the Doctors.

Then there was "white dove"; she delivered EPO to riders in the might in the 2000s. She was a nurse from a hospital in Spain, hence her name.

Landis received his blood bags via an autograph hunger at the Tour....

Point being; nothing about doping has ever been normal, or looked anything realistic. Doping is ridiculous, it's use is even more ridiculous. A doctor wearing a pink shirt with a plaid jacket big noting himself to athletes is the norm. That's how doping is. It's these types of people & nut jobs who get involved in it because it is so ridiculous...

The story has legs and fairly obvious there's a lot more to it then this first sampling....

Manzano recounted how riders paid a nurse whose nickname was the Paloma Blanca (white dove) to transport the doping products between hotels to avoid detection from police and racing officials.

“She was paid 27,000 euros to do this. Each cyclist paid 3000 euros,” he said. “She carried EPO, testosterone, synthetic hemoglobin from hotel to hotel.”

At the moment, all we know is Bonar is a doctor who recently lost his licence and has written a very expensive testosterone prescription out to an amateur German runner working for Sunday Times as an investigation. Even given all the stories in cycling's past, this storey barely has any toes, let-alone legs. I'd be happy if Bonar turns out to be another Fuentes, but at the moment I think sadly it's Sunday Times stabbing around in the dark trying to find the British Fuentes or Ferrari.

 

[sniper]

As Tucker said, it doesn't matter if Boner treated 150 or 15 athletes. He's merely symptomatic for a much wider problem in the UK (and Germany, and the Netherlands, etc.).

Gotta appreciate how UKAD never flagged any of this to anybody.
doping facilitators. omerta.
full stop.

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re: Re:

Don't post much in the Clinic these days but just wanted to put my 2 cents in and say this is no surprise to me at all. Or should it be to any serious fan if you want my honest truth.

Some interesting responses here. Keep them coming.

It's like we've learnt nothing from every other doping scandal. I understand fans want to downplay events on doping, facing the question that your favourite athlete is doper is hard for some to contemplate. In cycling, when there's a sniff of a doping problem it inevitably turns out to take down the biggest stars.

As for the whistle blower; he spent £60,000 of his own money to try and bring it to the attention of those with the power to do something about it. Why would he do that if it was a bunch of Cat 3 riders spending £800 a visit?

Fuentes had a assistant, he was severely dyslexic. It is thought he messed up the Siberia blood bags as the letters became jumbled. He was the interface to the riders. Small time guy doing the leg work for the Doctors.

Then there was "white dove"; she delivered EPO to riders in the might in the 2000s. She was a nurse from a hospital in Spain, hence her name.

Landis received his blood bags via an autograph hunger at the Tour....

Point being; nothing about doping has ever been normal, or looked anything realistic. Doping is ridiculous, it's use is even more ridiculous. A doctor wearing a pink shirt with a plaid jacket big noting himself to athletes is the norm. That's how doping is. It's these types of people & nut jobs who get involved in it because it is so ridiculous...

The story has legs and fairly obvious there's a lot more to it then this first sampling....

Manzano recounted how riders paid a nurse whose nickname was the Paloma Blanca (white dove) to transport the doping products between hotels to avoid detection from police and racing officials.

“She was paid 27,000 euros to do this. Each cyclist paid 3000 euros,” he said. “She carried EPO, testosterone, synthetic hemoglobin from hotel to hotel.”

At the moment, all we know is Bonar is a doctor who recently lost his licence and has written a very expensive testosterone prescription out to an amateur German runner working for Sunday Times as an investigation. Even given all the stories in cycling's past, this storey barely has any toes, let-alone legs. I'd be happy if Bonar turns out to be another Fuentes, but at the moment I think sadly it's Sunday Times stabbing around in the dark trying to find the British Fuentes or Ferrari.

Just at the moment, the story is stymied and further revelations are needed to make any sense of it. He's been disowned by everyone, including Premiership teams and even himself -

A Twitter account purporting to belong to Bonar on Sunday night, although not verified, read: "The @SundayTimesNews allegations are false and very misleading. I have never had a relationship with any premier football club or player.

Nobody suggests there is no problem, but this guy can't tell the truth, that's obvious.

So far as the Tour de France is concerned, most people in the UK, probably including him, have any idea who has ridden in the Tour or not so I don't take his recorded boasts at face value. He could even have thought Stevens was a TdF rider. After all, he wore Lycra and rode a bike.

I hope the investigations get somewhere - these revelations were not the best investigative work ever published by the Sunday Times and were wildly over-hyped.

 

[sniper]

you seem more interested in discrediting the guy than in addressing the major problems exemplified by his case.

On twitter, Richard Ings usually defends the ADAs. He presided one, after all.
If Richard Ings says this: https://twitter.com/ringsau/status/716573220300857344
then you know something's wrong with UKAD.

 

[python]

i don't see the new doping accusations as an attempt to find 'another ferrari or fuentes'....

rather, if the doc himself is to be believed - and i dont see a good reason why not - there probably is a wide ranging doping problem in the elite british sports. just like there was and is - yet seldom reflected on but profusely gloated about - the problem to the south and east of some western and nordic nations.

the questions that need answers are: why the alleged dopers have not been caught ? why the ukad kept quiet up on learning of the doc 2 yo ? do the brits really deserve the wada mission of managing/testing/lecturing the russian sports after their athletics debacle ?

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re:

not that i'm surprised, but you seem more interested in discrediting the guy than in addressing the major problems exemplified by his case.

In a way you're right (in para 1 before you edited your post) - he hardly needs any help with that and I look forward to hearing how he gets on in his ongoing misconduct case.

The problem is that the Sunday Times investigation has failed to come up with facts upon which we can rely and the best that can be said is probably what Tucker said. But there's no real reliable information to do more than speculate. I certainly do warn against believing all that this charlatan Bonar says.

 

[LeindersGains]

Cyclist named as British ‘doping doctor’ whistleblower by newspaper.

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/cyclist-named-british-doping-doctor-whistleblower-newspaper-219487

His name is Dan Stevens. Don't know anything about this guy but it's getting interesting.

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re:

i don't see the new doping accusations as an attempt to find 'another ferrari or fuentes'....

rather, if the doc himself is to be believed - and i dont see a good reason why not - there probably is a wide ranging doping problem in the elite british sports. just like there was and is - yet seldom reflected on but profusely gloated about - the problem to the south and east of some western and nordic nations.

the questions that need answers are: why the alleged dopers have not been caught ? why the ukad kept quiet up on learning of the doc 2 yo ? do the brits really deserve the wada mission of managing/testing/lecturing the russian sports after their athletics debacle ?

At the risk of upsetting those who think I am pre-occupied with discrediting Bonar I must ask you to read these allegations against him that pre-date the Sunday Times sting http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...doctor-kept-patient-dark-terminal-cancer.html

If, after that, you think there is no reason to doubt him do also bear in mind that he now appears to deny what he said, even though the Sunday Times recorded him.

So that is why we must hope that the inquiry that is taking place will get nearer the truth, whether good or bad.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: British Doctor claims he doped 150 sports stars includin

Got news on the #doping story. Stay tuned for teams & names.

Leicester: Mahrez, Kante, Okazaki, Drinkwater
Arsenal: Welbeck and Gabriel
Chelsea: Traore, Willian, Costa
Spurs: Alli, Toby and Lamela

https://twitter.com/Ainsworth1980/status/716373169637101568

I'd be shocked

Out of all those you choose to focus on Mahrez, when Kante and Okazaki literally don't stop running?