British Doctor claims he doped 150 sports stars including Br

[Maxiton]

Well, unless some investigative body with the power to subpoena his records actually subpoenas them, the truth will never be known. And the greater the likelihood that his records will reveal widespread doping among British athletes, the greater the likelihood that no one will subpoena them. So I would say that this story will likely go no where, unless something happens that forces action, or unless there really is no story there.

 

[Benotti69]

i have not read the Sunday Times article as i dont give Murdoch any money, but no doubt the ST lawyers have edited it down to avoid litigation, that is their job and litigation in the UK is expensive.

But who is surprised and why? Doctors are no more ethical than any other member of society. Look at how many work for cycling teams...

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re:

Well, unless some investigative body with the power to subpoena his records actually subpoenas them, the truth will never be known. And the greater the likelihood that his records will reveal widespread doping among British athletes, the greater the likelihood that no one will subpoena them. So I would say that this story will likely go no where, unless something happens that forces action, or unless there really is no story there.

Well I know some may think me naive and insufficiently sceptical but I genuinely believe there is a desire to find out what is not already known and to release it, whatever the outcome. In case you have missed it: http://www.skysports.com/more-sport...n-into-uk-anti-doping-action-on-dr-mark-bonar

 

[Maxiton]

Re: Re:

Well, unless some investigative body with the power to subpoena his records actually subpoenas them, the truth will never be known. And the greater the likelihood that his records will reveal widespread doping among British athletes, the greater the likelihood that no one will subpoena them. So I would say that this story will likely go no where, unless something happens that forces action, or unless there really is no story there.

Well I know some may think me naive and insufficiently sceptical but I genuinely believe there is a desire to find out what is not already known and to release it, whatever the outcome. In case you have missed it: http://www.skysports.com/more-sport...n-into-uk-anti-doping-action-on-dr-mark-bonar

Good luck with that. Whenever something is revealed that threatens establishment interests, the response is to appoint a "blue ribbon panel" - whose job it is to whitewash the whole thing.

 

[Benotti69]

Skysports those unyielding truth seekers!

 

[Semper Fidelis]

I find this is "like deja vu all over again".

Except this time it is a different set of people trying to discredit the story or the person's involved. Very much the same.

What makes anyone think that their countries or favorite athletes are above the use of PED's?

 

[samhocking]

Re:

you seem more interested in discrediting the guy than in addressing the major problems exemplified by his case.

On twitter, Richard Ings usually defends the ADAs. He presided one, after all.
If Richard Ings says this: https://twitter.com/ringsau/status/716573220300857344
then you know something's wrong with UKAD.

I haven't got any issue with UKAD should be doing more, it;s obvious they're grossly under-funded, but Reichard is reacting to UKAD as if the 150 athletes statement from Bonar is already true as reason to state UKAD are not capable of managing anti-doping? The reality is, they have an amateur cyclist called Dan Stevens who used the services of Dr Bonar when he was a licenced GP with GMC. Dan later refused to provide an anti-doping sample and so received a two year ban. To reduce his 24 months UKAD/CIRC asked for more information. Dan gave then two prescriptions we assume were signed by Dr Bonar and that he knows there is a boxer also being treated by Bonar? At the time, Bonar was licenced to write prescriptions, so there's nothing GMC could do there and without the boxers name, what was GMC or even UKAD supposed to do with that information exactly? It's like me saying, 'hey I know someone in Tour de France who doped, I don't know who it was, but someone told me someone there is doping. Can you go investigate fully until you find him?

That's not how you should be allocating limited resources. No doubt UKAD has some serious issues, but I really can't see what the government enquirey is gonna reveal about UKAD not passing over details to GMC, because as far as I can tell, theres not a lot they could have passed on from Dan Stevens.

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re:

Skysports those unyielding truth seekers!

I chose that version because it seemed concise. The same report is in most of the papers. Skysports has changed none of the contents.

It's amusing that you prefer your news from that other Murdoch source, the Sunday Times! You are bound to think that Skysports has a different agenda. Red rag to a bull.

 

[sniper]

Boner untrustworthy? Well obviously.
Same as Ferrari, Leinders, Fuentes, Vanmol, San Millan, Voet, Weltz, Motoman, and other doping providers.
Not to be trusted. Full stop.
150 or 15 patients. It doesn't matter.
Let's not waste time discrediting this guy.
Weltz's missteps in other parts of his life don't make his doping facilitation any less blatant or any less true.

One part of the story that has turned out to be true is that UKAD didn't do *** with the whistleblower's warnings. Didn't flag nothing, didn't start an investigation, didn't forward information to other bodies who could've investigated.

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re:

Boner untrustworthy? Well obviously.
Same as Ferrari, Leinders, Fuentes, Vanmol, San Millan, Voet, Weltz, Motoman, and other doping providers.
Not to be trusted. Full stop.
150 or 15 patients. It doesn't matter.
Let's not waste time discrediting this guy.
Weltz's missteps in other parts of his life didn't make his doping facilitation any less blatant or any less true.

One part of the story that has turned out to be true is that UKAD didn't do **** with the whistleblower's warnings. Didn't flag nothing, didn't start an investigation, didn't forward information to other bodies who could've investigated.

Only partially true. Lots of room for improvement (particularly no attempt to involve the GMC) but did you read http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-3521932/Cyclist-centre-drug-claims-engulfing-Premier-League-football-revealed-Dan-Stevens.html and see what they actually did try to do?

 

[Cannibal72]

Re: Re:

Well, unless some investigative body with the power to subpoena his records actually subpoenas them, the truth will never be known. And the greater the likelihood that his records will reveal widespread doping among British athletes, the greater the likelihood that no one will subpoena them. So I would say that this story will likely go no where, unless something happens that forces action, or unless there really is no story there.

Well I know some may think me naive and insufficiently sceptical but I genuinely believe there is a desire to find out what is not already known and to release it, whatever the outcome. In case you have missed it: http://www.skysports.com/more-sport...n-into-uk-anti-doping-action-on-dr-mark-bonar

Good luck with that. Whenever something is revealed that threatens establishment interests, the response is to appoint a "blue ribbon panel" - whose job it is to whitewash the whole thing.

'Minister, two basic rules of government: Never look into anything you don't have to. And never set up an enquiry unless you know in advance what its findings will be.'
-Yes Minister

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

....
Only partially true. Lots of room for improvement (particularly no attempt to involve the GMC) but did you read http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-3521932/Cyclist-centre-drug-claims-engulfing-Premier-League-football-revealed-Dan-Stevens.html and see what they actually did try to do?

not sure what's in there that makes UKAD look good. 'Independent' investigation?

Fact is that everybody with even the tiniest bit of historical awareness of doping in topsport knows what time it is.

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re: Re:

Boner untrustworthy? Well obviously.
Same as Ferrari, Leinders, Fuentes, Vanmol, San Millan, Voet, Weltz, Motoman, and other doping providers.
Not to be trusted. Full stop.
150 or 15 patients. It doesn't matter.
Let's not waste time discrediting this guy.
Weltz's missteps in other parts of his life didn't make his doping facilitation any less blatant or any less true.

One part of the story that has turned out to be true is that UKAD didn't do **** with the whistleblower's warnings. Didn't flag nothing, didn't start an investigation, didn't forward information to other bodies who could've investigated.

Only partially true. Lots of room for improvement (particularly no attempt to involve the GMC) but did you read http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-3521932/Cyclist-centre-drug-claims-engulfing-Premier-League-football-revealed-Dan-Stevens.html and see what they actually did try to do?

not sure what's in there that makes UKAD look good. Independent investigation? don't go there. Just don't.

Fact is that everybody with even the tiniest bit of historical awareness of doping in topsport knows what time it is.

Did I say it made them look good? No. Did you say they didn't start an investigation? Yes, you did. Was it entirely true? No it wasn't. Was it all we would have wanted? No it wasn't. Partly I agree with you but there's no need for an economy with the truth that already know. There's enough to be critical about in this story and what we are not told without resort to that.

 

[samhocking]

I just can't see a Murdoch paper ends up investigating a doctor who was doping Britains first Tour de France winning team while wearing one of their logos. That would be amazing lol!

 

[Semper Fidelis]

It is shocking to watch some go at it so hard to deny there is any smoke. Why when anyone remotely interested in cycling over years know what type of sport we are talking about. No one is clean in this game.

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re:

It is shocking to watch some go at it so hard to deny there is any smoke. Why when anyone remotely interested in cycling over years know what type of sport we are talking about. No one is clean in this game.

At the moment it's a story going nowhere.

 

[samhocking]

Two prescriptions from an amateur cyclist, a boxer without a name and the Sunday Times pretending to be a German runner with low testosterone going to a doctor who has already written a prescription out to the cyclist they have paid doesn't make any smoke for me. I'll be happy to be wrong, but this isn't a story yet from what i've read.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

I said in my post above yours "some" did not name anyone on purpose. Hmmmmmmm

I need to go back to the wayback interwebs cache machine and dig up some quotes that are almost word for word to some of the ones in here - the ones that are trying to discredit the info. Reads very much like a few other threads from a time not long ago.

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re:

I said in my post above yours "some" did not name anyone on purpose. Hmmmmmmm

I need to go back to the wayback interwebs cache machine and dig up some quotes that are almost word for word to some of the ones in here - the ones that are trying to discredit the info. Reads very much like a few other threads from a time not long ago.

The thing is that this story is incomplete and has been over-hyped, the doctor is totally unreliable, dishonest, under a cloud already and is back-tracking on what he was recorded saying. None of the alleged dopers are named. There are other extensive denials that are capable of being busted if untrue. Even Sniper says "Boner untrustworthy? Well obviously."

So why do you apparently believe all that he says? I accept he has probably dished out drugs but to whom and to what extent? I am as anxious as the next man to know, but I do not accept at face value all that Bonar has said.

 

[Maxiton]

Re: Re:

Well, unless some investigative body with the power to subpoena his records actually subpoenas them, the truth will never be known. And the greater the likelihood that his records will reveal widespread doping among British athletes, the greater the likelihood that no one will subpoena them. So I would say that this story will likely go no where, unless something happens that forces action, or unless there really is no story there.

Well I know some may think me naive and insufficiently sceptical but I genuinely believe there is a desire to find out what is not already known and to release it, whatever the outcome. In case you have missed it: http://www.skysports.com/more-sport...n-into-uk-anti-doping-action-on-dr-mark-bonar

Good luck with that. Whenever something is revealed that threatens establishment interests, the response is to appoint a "blue ribbon panel" - whose job it is to whitewash the whole thing.

'Minister, two basic rules of government: Never look into anything you don't have to. And never set up an enquiry unless you know in advance what its findings will be.'
-Yes Minister

Ha! Good find!

I just can't see a Murdoch paper ends up investigating a doctor who was doping Britains first Tour de France winning team while wearing one of their logos. That would be amazing lol!

Good point. Very good point. In fact, it really makes you wonder why they broke this story in the first place - but maybe they wanted to be the ones to break it so that they could be the ones to manage it, or massage it.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

Well, unless some investigative body with the power to subpoena his records actually subpoenas them, the truth will never be known. And the greater the likelihood that his records will reveal widespread doping among British athletes, the greater the likelihood that no one will subpoena them. So I would say that this story will likely go no where, unless something happens that forces action, or unless there really is no story there.

Well I know some may think me naive and insufficiently sceptical but I genuinely believe there is a desire to find out what is not already known and to release it, whatever the outcome. In case you have missed it: http://www.skysports.com/more-sport...n-into-uk-anti-doping-action-on-dr-mark-bonar

Good luck with that. Whenever something is revealed that threatens establishment interests, the response is to appoint a "blue ribbon panel" - whose job it is to whitewash the whole thing.

'Minister, two basic rules of government: Never look into anything you don't have to. And never set up an enquiry unless you know in advance what its findings will be.'
-Yes Minister

well said indeed.

And yes, whitewash the whole thing under the umbrella of an 'independent investigation'.
Fool me once, shame on you.

Again, anybody with the tiniest bit of historical awareness of corruption, fraud and doping should be able to do a Jan Ulrich on this latest story and UKAD / WADA's attempts to bend it like beckham.

 

[wrinklyvet]

@Maxiton

I think they rushed to print with half a story and not worrying greatly where it leads because later this month Bonar's malpractice case (over his treatment of the cancer patient) may be concluded and once he is struck off as seems quite likely he will be damaged goods (i.e. even less credible in the eyes of readers of the publication). It has sold a lot of papers and generated on-line sales. And no, I don't think it will lead back to Team Sky. This is not their style, whether you think they dope or that they don't.

 

[Maxiton]

Re:

@Maxiton

I think they rushed to print with half a story and not worrying greatly where it leads because later this month Bonar's malpractice case (over his treatment of the cancer patient) may be concluded and once he is struck off as seems quite likely he will be damaged goods (i.e. even less credible in the eyes of readers of the publication). It has sold a lot of papers and generated on-line sales. And no, I don't think it will lead back to Team Sky. This is not their style, whether you think they dope or that they don't.

Yeah, you could be right, on both counts.

 

[samhocking]

The thing is the Sunday Times tip off came from Dan Stevens himself. At the end of the full-length video there's a disclaimer "The Sunday Times has no independent evidence Dr. Bonar treated the sports people he has named". So, it sounds like they might have additional video not yet public with specific athlete names or I think most likely the disclaimer is in relation to when Bonar simply says "I have worked with lots of professional athletes'.
The big question, is if Dan himself withheld names to CIRC and UKAD, but gave them to Sunday Times? If he did ,then I think it puts UKAD in much better light given that all they have is a statement from Dan about a boxer he doesn't know the name of.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

I find this is "like deja vu all over again".

Except this time it is a different set of people trying to discredit the story or the person's involved. Very much the same.

What makes anyone think that their countries or favorite athletes are above the use of PED's?

Weakness. Some people are so weak, even something as trivial as an athlete doping is too hard for them to accept, so they delude themselves.