British Identity

[Morbius]

From wikipedia
Citizenship in the Isle of Man is governed by UK law. Passports issued by the Isle of Man Passport Office say "British Islands - Isle of Man" on the cover but the nationality status stated on the passport is simply "British Citizen"

 

[FignonLeGrand]

I'm not crazy about this trend for "national" teams in cycling, truth be told. But if you look at the history of sport it's full of people changing nationality to get a better chance to compete, so I don't think that the UK's any worse than any other country really.

But are there really any national teams? Isnt it positive for the sport as a whole that nations such as UK and Austrailia are now at a point where they have enough national riders to make a 'spine' of a decent international team, and can find domestic backing? Lets be honest ANC Halfords or Linda Mccartney were not the best examples of a UK based continental squad. Less than 40% of the Sky team are GB riders, would this be any different to say Spanish riders for Movistar, Italians at Liquigas or Dutchies in the rabobank squad?

If cycling really want to become an world class proffesional sport surely it needs to embrace the developments across the world and hope that UK, Austrailian and hopefully South American based squads can succeed.

This board often seems to reduce itself to squabbles based on nationality or cycling history. Why has no one ever started a 'how can we aid an african team' rather than taking pot shots at countries who are emerging and embracing this great sport.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Using Sofia's rule of thumb, Australia is now run by the Welsh and the USA more or less have permanent chairmanship of the EU!

 

[Sofía_]

Please don't turn this into a discrimination-forum-thread, it wasn't my original idea.

My point is: if you born in Malta, you must represent the cycling federation of Malta. You can hold a British/Italian/Finish passport and be whatever you want... but it's cycling, it's not a war or politics.

 

[Derrick]

I think "ultimobici" means Phil, not Mick, Edwards. David Akam was a Moser man too.

 

[tomazo]

But this is impossible, because the rule in many countries is that you get citizenship after your parents(that law is most commonly used in Europe, i think its different in Americas) so the the fact that Wiggins was born in Belgium does not make him Belgian at all

 

[hrotha]

Please don't turn this into a discrimination-forum-thread, it wasn't my original idea.

My point is: if you born in Malta, you must represent the cycling federation of Malta. You can hold a British/Italian/Finish passport and be whatever you want... but it's cycling, it's not a war or politics.

If you're born in Malta almost by accident but spend your childhood in Scotland and your teen years in Hong Kong, why would you represent Malta?

 

[will10]

 

[Sofía_]

If you're born in Malta almost by accident but spend your childhood in Scotland and your teen years in Hong Kong, why would you represent Malta?

you don't represent a country, you represent the cycling federation of that country.

@ will10: hehe, funny

 

[Ragerod]

you don't represent a country, you represent the cycling federation of that country.

@ will10: hehe, funny

In that case the British team at the Olympics would represent multiple cycling federations from different countries but not the one that has had a direct impact on their development as a cyclist and invested resources in them.

 

[hrotha]

you don't represent a country, you represent the cycling federation of that country.

@ will10: hehe, funny

Millar has even less of a relationship with the Maltese cycling federation than with Malta itself.

 

[Wiesmier]

By your definition Phil Anderson is British not Australian by virtue of his place of birth.

But to answer your original question, not hard at all. Robert Millar, Deno Davie, Mick Edwards, Dave Lloyd, David Rayner (RIP), Malcolm Elliott were all great riders. Edwards was Moser's gregario, Elliott won the points title in the Vuelta. So it's not hard at all!

Phil Edwards as it happens. Lives in Italy afaik

 

[Sofía_]

In that case the British team at the Olympics would represent multiple cycling federations from different countries but not the one that has had a direct impact on their development as a cyclist and invested resources in them.

it's true in the actual constest: now they invest in their development 'cause they can ride for them. whatever they're from..........

in my "evil-paralel-world" the develepment is a resposability of the cycling federeation.

 

[Mambo95]

Millar has even less of a relationship with the Maltese cycling federation than with Malta itself.

He once represented Malta in the "Games of the Small States of Europe" in 2001. He won the time-trial.
See here: http://www.nocmalta.org/page.asp?p=7667&l=1

 

[happychappy]

Don't worry your little head about it.

 

[craig1985]

Froome did race under a Kenyan licence for a long time (I first saw him starting off first at the 2006 Commonwealth Games TT in Melbourne) but the Kenyan Cycling Federation is basically non existent, I don't see the need to represent them. Dan Martin is riding for Ireland because he's not a track cyclist so the British Cycling Academy was of no use for him which catered towards those that come from a track background (Wiggins, Cavendish, Bellis, Thomas, Swift just to name a few), which for him makes perfect sense IMO.

Although he's not British, Heinrich Haussler only rode under a German licence so he could turn pro for Gerolsteiner.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

How hard can be build a cycling identity if you're british?

Wiggins: from Belgium
Froome: from Kenya
Daniel Martin: yes! Birmingham, no wait, he rides for Ireland.
Jeremy Hunt: Brit... no, Canada
Peter Kennaugh & Cavendish: Isle of Man (a self-governing British Crown Dependency)
David Millar: this one is from... Malta

do you know another examples?

Do you think there was a problem with a British cycling identity in late Sept last year and do you think Wiggins, Froome, Hunt, Millar and Cav had a problem buying into that identity?

 

[The Hitch]

You're talking about a country whose royal family is effectively German so...

You get the same thing with "Australian" movie stars.

Mel Gibson - American since about 11yrs old I think
Russel Crowe - Kiwi?
Nicle Kidman - born in Hawaii or somewhere wasnt she?

My own kids are Australian but born to a Colombian mother and they have been living in Colombia for about 6 months so... as of right now are they Aussie or Colombian? Who cares, they're mine.

Poland

Chopin - French
Curie - French
Mickiewicz- Lithuanian
Pilsudski - Lithuanian
The Hitch - British
Our Kings from 1570- 1796 French, Sweedish and German


And yet we are the most ethnically homogeonous state in europe.

Btw I know my list doesnt quite measure up to yours in terms of greatness

 

[tomazo]

Poland

Chopin - French
Curie - French
Mickiewicz- Lithuanian
Pilsudski - Lithuanian
The Hitch - British
Our Kings from 1570- 1796 French, Sweedish and German


And yet we are the most ethnically homogeonous state in europe.

Btw I know my list doesnt quite measure up to yours in terms of greatness

well, technically none of them were born in Poland (except you?), beacause at the time there was no such country and the kings were elected so that doesnt count i think
but i guess everyone can see how vague the term of nationatility can be, its mostly about feelings of certain person IMO

 

[bobbins]

Does this thread win a prize for the most pointless thread of 2012. Even a helmets / campag v shimano thread would be preferable!

 

[Anonymous]

Dario Cioni - Born in Reading..
Max Sciandri - Bord in Derby..
Phil Anderson - Born in London..


Not sure what my point is there

 

[El Pistolero]

You're talking about a country whose royal family is effectively German so...

And they're family from the Belgian royal family

 

[FreeWheelin]

For me when it comes to sport the athlete's 'nationality' should be taken from where they learnt their skills rather then where they were born. They may have been born in X but are they a product of british cycling?

 

[El Pistolero]

Poland

Chopin - French
Curie - French
Mickiewicz- Lithuanian
Pilsudski - Lithuanian
The Hitch - British
Our Kings from 1570- 1796 French, Sweedish and German


And yet we are the most ethnically homogeonous state in europe.

Btw I know my list doesnt quite measure up to yours in terms of greatness

Belgium:

Our "kings" from 1396 - 2011: French, Austrian/Germanic, Spanish mixed with Austrians, Spanish, Austrian, French again, Dutch and then finally... German.

Ps: you forgot a Polish Tour winner who rode for France
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Walkowiak

 

[phanatic]

I don't think bringing up royalty is quite fair, as they tend to be inter-related with one another rather than with the other classes or groups. To be fair though, the Nazis did kind of save much of Europe from the Jewish-Bolshevik menace. I mean, the tens of thousands of Poles, Hungarians, etc, murdered after the war pales in comparison to what people like Yagoda and Kaganovich accomplished during the thirties.