British politics

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

The fear of the elderly and rural workers prevailed. The gap between those who profit from globalization and those who are the inert recipients of its consequences is too large.

These people's concerns must be listened to and addressed —not by buying their anti-foreigner stance and raising economic barriers, but by doubling efforts to make sure globalisation works for as many people as possible.

Beautiful, now let's talk about what that might look like and, more importantly, how it might come about. Since all that's been merchandized so far is vapid ideology.

 

[CheckMyPecs]

Re: Re:

Beautiful, now let's talk about what that might look like and, more importantly, how it might come about. Since all that's been merchandized so far is vapid ideology.

Let's start with wages. Instead of tackling migrants who allegedly drive down wages by working for peanuts, let's tackle those who are making them work for peanuts —abusive bosses.

Step 1, get rid of zero-hours contracts.

 

[blutto]

.....more of the same... http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027957881

Greenwald calls-out the dominant Brexit narrative

https://theintercept.com/2016/06/25/brexit-is-only-the-latest-proof-of-the-insularity-and-failure-of-western-establishment-institutions/

Brexit is Only the Latest Proof of the Insularity and Failure of Western Establishment Institutions

THE DECISION BY UK VOTERS to leave the EU is such a glaring repudiation of the wisdom and relevance of elite political and media institutions that – for once – their failures have become a prominent part of the storyline. Media reaction to the Brexit vote falls into two general categories: (1) earnest, candid attempts to understand what motivated voters to make this choice, even if that means indicting one’s own establishment circles, and (2) petulant, self-serving, simple-minded attacks on disobedient pro-leave voters for being primitive, xenophobic bigots (and stupid to boot), all to evade any reckoning with their own responsibility. Virtually every reaction that falls into the former category emphasizes the profound failures of western establishment factions; these institutions have spawned pervasive misery and inequality, only to spew condescending scorn at their victims when they object.

The Los Angeles Times‘ Vincent Bevins, in an outstanding and concise analysis, wrote that “both Brexit and Trumpism are the very, very wrong answers to legitimate questions that urban elites have refused to ask for thirty years”; in particular, “since the 1980s the elites in rich countries have overplayed their hand, taking all the gains for themselves and just covering their ears when anyone else talks, and now they are watching in horror as voters revolt.” The British journalist Tom Ewing, in a comprehensive Brexit explanation, said the same dynamic driving the UK vote prevails in Europe and North America as well: “the arrogance of neoliberal elites in constructing a politics designed to sideline and work around democracy while leaving democracy formally intact.”

In an interview with The New Statesman, the political philosopher Michael Sandel also said that the dynamics driving the pro-Brexit sentiment were now dominant throughout the west generally: “a large constituency of working-class voters feel that not only has the economy left them behind, but so has the culture, that the sources of their dignity, the dignity of labour, have been eroded and mocked by developments with globalisation, the rise of finance, the attention that is lavished by parties across the political spectrum on economic and financial elites, the technocratic emphasis of the established political parties.” After the market-venerating radicalism of Reagan and Thatcher, he said, “the centre left” – Blair and Clinton and various European parties – “managed to regain political office but failed to reimagine the mission and purpose of social democracy, which ­became empty and obsolete.”

Corrupt elites always try to persuade people to continue to submit to their dominance in exchange for protection from forces that are even worse. That’s their game. But at some point, they themselves, and their prevailing order, become so destructive, so deceitful, so toxic, that their victims are willing to gamble that the alternatives will not be worse, or at least, they decide to embrace the satisfaction of spitting in the faces of those who have displayed nothing but contempt and condescension for them.

As I write this, two of the top five "Greatest Threads" here at DU are precisely the dominant Brexit narrative that Greenwald eviscerates above (with plenty more detail and evidence at the link). I think that DU can and should bring a more critical eye to the Brexit issue, and take the lessons of it to heart before the USA's politics goes similarly off the rails.

....and....

The enraged liberal reaction to the Brexit vote is in full flood. The anger is pathological – and helps to shed light on why a majority of Britons voted for leaving the European Union, just as earlier a majority of Labour party members voted for Jeremy Corbyn as leader.

A few years ago the American writer Chris Hedges wrote a book he titled the Death of the Liberal Class. His argument was not so much that liberals had disappeared, but that they had become so coopted by the right wing and its goals – from the subversion of progressive economic and social ideals by neoliberalism, to the ethusiastic embrace of neonservative doctrine in prosecuting aggressive and expansionist wars overseas in the guise of “humanitarian intervention” – that liberalism had been hollowed out of all substance.

Liberal pundits sensitively agonise over, but invariably end up backing, policies designed to benefit the bankers and arms manufacturers, and ones that wreak havoc domestically and abroad. They are the “useful idiots” of modern western societies.

Reading this piece on the fallout from Brexit by Zoe Williams, a columnist who ranks as leftwing by the current standards of the deeply diminished Guardian, one can isolate this liberal pathology in all its sordid glory.

Here is a revealing section, written by a mind so befuddled by decades of neoliberal orthodoxy that it has lost all sense of the values it claims to espouse:

“There is a reason why, when Marine le Pen and Donald Trump congratulated us on our decision, it was like being punched in the face – because they are racists, authoritarian, small-minded and backward-looking. They embody the energy of hatred. The principles that underpin internationalism – cooperation, solidarity, unity, empathy, openness – these are all just elements of love"

https://off-guardian.org/2016/06/27/brexit-and-the-diseased-liberal-mind/

Cheers

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

Beautiful, now let's talk about what that might look like and, more importantly, how it might come about. Since all that's been merchandized so far is vapid ideology.

Let's start with wages. Instead of tackling migrants who allegedly drive down wages by working for peanuts, let's tackle those who are making them work for peanuts —abusive bosses.

Step 1, get rid of zero-hours contracts.

Ahh and this means peeling back 30 years of neoliberalism since Reagan and Thatcher, reinforced by Clinton (NATA), which has acted as a giant vacuum cleaner (Ross Perot) sucking up industry and jobs and transplanting them to cheap labor markets.

Now let's move on to Step 2...

 

[ebandit]

fear .

cosy

Thoughtless, aye, well I did pondered a few issues in the subsequent post. Anybody got any ideas? But if you think "bravo" Brexit prevailed, you need to qualify that with the kind of world such an impetus foresees.

bravo! is just a personal response....joy in the unexpected.....guidance ignored

..as to 'the spanner in the works'....again i can smile it's not me that must sort...

Mark L

 

[rhubroma]

Re:

fear .

cosy

Thoughtless, aye, well I did pondered a few issues in the subsequent post. Anybody got any ideas? But if you think "bravo" Brexit prevailed, you need to qualify that with the kind of world such an impetus foresees.

bravo! is just a personal response....joy in the unexpected.....guidance ignored

..as to 'the spanner in the works'....again i can smile it's not me that must sort...

Mark L

Ahh but so much is at stake, which requires exceptional folks sorting out the muck...but I don't see any exceptional folks, just hacks and charlatans and revolting opportunists. Indeed Cameron put out Brexit as a personal wager to reenforce his own standing within British conservatism and egregiously miscalculated. Imagine one British politico's personal battle, against the fate of the entire union...other than being disgusted with how the EU has bludgeoned Greece.

 

[ebandit]

...may idealists inherit the earth....

i generally ignore politics ...it's not my beef....sod y'all...why? should i work......

Mark L

 

[blutto]

Re: Re:

fear .

cosy

Thoughtless, aye, well I did pondered a few issues in the subsequent post. Anybody got any ideas? But if you think "bravo" Brexit prevailed, you need to qualify that with the kind of world such an impetus foresees.

bravo! is just a personal response....joy in the unexpected.....guidance ignored

..as to 'the spanner in the works'....again i can smile it's not me that must sort...

Mark L

Ahh but so much is at stake, which requires exceptional folks sorting out the muck...but I don't see any exceptional folks, just hacks and charlatans and revolting opportunists. Indeed Cameron put out Brexit as a personal wager to reenforce his own standing within British conservatism and egregiously miscalculated. Imagine one British politico's personal battle, against the fate of the entire union...other than being disgusted with how the EU has bludgeoned Greece.

....yeah but you gotta admit that was a monumental biggie in terms of the democratic thingee....you could almost say that Stalin would have been proud of that bureaucratic bludgeoning...

Cheers

 

[python]

Re: Re:

A key assumption in any Brexit scenario is what happens to trade agreements. The EU is the United Kingdom's largest trading partner, receiving about half of all U.K. exports. Upon leaving the EU, the United Kingdom will lose its automatic right to the favorable trade terms that EU membership bestows.

....


Suffice it to say that a whole host of new U.K. regulatory frameworks need to be developed to conduct business and trade in a post-EU world.

indeed, that article was sober and balanced. unlike most stuff written in the aftermath and filled with that useless gloating, cross-blaming and such...as quoted, the key will be in the eventual shape of the eu-uk trade agreements. i read recently that there are roughly 3 models on which the negotiations may be centred: a) as few changes to the current agreements as possible. not likely though germany may try the accomodation given the amount it exports to the uk. b) a special status modeled on norway. to me, it would be the best outcome the uk could get but probably wont b/c the circumstances are vastly different plus the resentment, and c) the trade largely based on the rules and guidance of the world trade organization, that is, the proud lion will get equal among equals. this route will also require the minimum wrt to creating new procedures b/c they are already developed and well understood.

at the moment, i think something between b) and c) is most likely.

everything else, the immigration, foreign policy changes etc will be insignificant compared to THAT ^

 

[Amsterhammer]

I'm posting this in all three political topics because the learned professor's wonderfully articulate words are relevant to all. I sincerely urge all of you to take 23 minutes to listen to him. You will not regret the time!

Mark Blyth (born in 1967) is a Scottish political scientist, and a professor of international political economy at Brown University. He is best known for his critique of austerity, Austerity: The History of a Dangerous Idea, described by Salon.com and AlterNet as "necessary reading" and as simultaneously functioning as an economics explainer, a polemic, and a history book offering "insight into austerity’s lineage, its theories, its champions and its failures." Blyth characterized the argument advanced by austerity advocates as "a canard" and "complete horsesh!t."[1][2]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGvZil0qWPg

 

[CheckMyPecs]

Now that the EEA scenario is coming up in the media, I've read about it and it seems to be just like EU membership but without democratic representation.

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

....yeah but you gotta admit that was a monumental biggie in terms of the democratic thingee....you could almost say that Stalin would have been proud of that bureaucratic bludgeoning...

Cheers

The issue of Greece though, as you have intended, didn't enter the thought horizens of Brexit. To the contrary, subsidizing Greece was among the contingent reasons for voting "Britain First!"

 

[CheckMyPecs]

Re: Re:

Ahh and this means peeling back 30 years of neoliberalism since Reagan and Thatcher, reinforced by Clinton (NATA), which has acted as a giant vacuum cleaner (Ross Perot) sucking up industry and jobs and transplanting them to cheap labor markets.

Parliament has the power to pass legislation to ban zero-hours. It would be a good start.

 

[Jagartrott]

Blutto seems to be romanticizing the 'leave' vote. In reality, it's far uglier, with blatant racism and xenophobia among the nr 1 reasons to vote 'leave'.

 

[python]

Poland 'shocked' by xenophobic abuse of Poles in UK
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/06/turkey-erdogan-russian-jet-160627131324044.html

when i first saw this in the rt ticker, i passed it over as was/is my practice unless it was confirmed by another source.

interesting how the poles posting here and living in the uk would comment...

Poland's ambassador in London has expressed shock and concern about what he said were incidents of xenophobic abuse directed against the Polish community following the UK's decision to leave the European Union.

Dozens of alleged racist incidents were reported to the police in parts of England over the weekend, including cases where Poles and other eastern Europeans were the victims of racial abuse.

In Huntingdon, Cambridgeshire, local media said police were investigating reports that signs reading "No more Polish vermin" had been distributed in the area, including outside schools, hours after the referendum's result - a 52 to 48 split in favour of Britain's exit - was announced on Friday.

In a separate incident in Hammersmith, west London, the front of a Polish cultural centre was reportedly smeared with offensive graffiti.

"We are shocked and deeply concerned by the recent incidents of xenophobic abuse directed against the Polish community and other UK residents of migrant heritage," Witold Sobkow, the Polish ambassador in London, said in a statement on Monday.

Sobkow said the embassy had been in contact with the "relevant institutions" and that police were investigating the Hammersmith and Huntingdon cases.

"We call on all Polish nationals who fall victim of xenophobic abuse and on all witnesses to report such incidents to local authorities," Sobkow said.

 

[Jagartrott]

By the way, does 'BoJo' (per The Sun) really thought he could have the cake and eat it, or is this some 'clever' maneuver?
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...-johnson-pipe-dream-over-single-market-access

 

[Amsterhammer]

Standard & Poor's Global Ratings slashed the United Kingdom’s credit grade on Monday in the wake of the country’s stunning referendum vote to leave the European Union.

The agency dropped the U.K.’s credit rating from AAA to AA, according to multiple reports, pointing to the economic risk and uncertainty stemming from last Thursday’s vote.

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/285039-sp-slashes-britains-credit-raiting

 

[Irondan]

Re:

Standard & Poor's Global Ratings slashed the United Kingdom’s credit grade on Monday in the wake of the country’s stunning referendum vote to leave the European Union.

The agency dropped the U.K.’s credit rating from AAA to AA, according to multiple reports, pointing to the economic risk and uncertainty stemming from last Thursday’s vote.

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/285039-sp-slashes-britains-credit-raiting

Ouch!

 

[blutto]

Re:

Standard & Poor's Global Ratings slashed the United Kingdom’s credit grade on Monday in the wake of the country’s stunning referendum vote to leave the European Union.

The agency dropped the U.K.’s credit rating from AAA to AA, according to multiple reports, pointing to the economic risk and uncertainty stemming from last Thursday’s vote.

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/285039-sp-slashes-britains-credit-raiting

....appears the banking industry is starting to fight back because their huge profit centre in London is really not going to work as well outside of the EU....read it will cost them billions and billions in lost profit....and as for the rating companies playing this straight one just has to look at their performance prior to the 2008 collapse to see they as corrupt as anyone in the banking industry ( and that is saying a lot )...

Cheers

 

[python]

Re: Re:

blutto:

and as for the rating companies playing this straight one just has to look at their performance prior to the 2008 collapse to see they as corrupt as anyone in the banking industry ( and that is saying a lot )...

agree 100%.

i used to be an active market participant. 'active' as in following everything and anything that affected the markets. of course to the extent i had the time for. the rating agencies news/updates were on the top of my list.

it took some years, but i came to a firm conclusion that the 3 biggies of rating agencies (the s&P, fitch, moody) are little more than another set of market manipulators (along with other american tools) tasked with advancing the us business interests.

think about it...they are all STILL the credit 'gold standard' in the world and (incidentally ?) ALL based in america. that all while the world financial capital had moved from nyc to london and while china had become the economic output parity to america.

what's more... the supposedly 'purely' financial organizations are often acting in strange coincidence with the us state department political declarations. etc etc. i recall, some years ago the eu, irritated by the naked american rating agencies political inclinations, had announced the creation of its own rating agency.

frankly, i don't recall what came out of the logical european intention.

it probably died out, just like many other fair initiatives designed to redress the american financial dominance. simply b/c the int. monetary fund, the world bank, the dollar a reserve currency etc etc are still the de facto instruments of the us financial domination that no one had succeeded to thwart much less to supplement or replace.

to suggest that the us - the self-appointed beacon of everything freedom and democracy - isn't acting to preserve the dominance....that would be in the face of known facts.

yep, the american rating agencies 'conclusions' are political. just as they were crap predicting the world economic troubles. the 2008 is just one bit.

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re:

Blutto seems to be romanticizing the 'leave' vote. In reality, it's far uglier, with blatant racism and xenophobia among the nr 1 reasons to vote 'leave'.

Not totally so. There's no denying this is one of the reasons but to tar 17 million people with that brush is entirely wrong. Many people in Britain have never been totally behind the EU and in many respects they can't be blamed for that. There are issues of sovereignty that are significant for some, coupled with objections to regulation by nameless bureaucrats and EU interference. There has been austerity and hardship for many people and they saw this as an opportunity to hit back against the ruling classes and the EU. Some people who remember how Britian has been treated in the past by De Gaulle, Delors and suchlike have been only too happy to vote to escape what they saw as a yoke. They also believed we can still do well outside the European political project. To the plethora of reasons and beliefs that inspired the Leave voters can be added the abject failure of Britain's traditionally Europhile socialist party, Labour, to get its supporters to vote Remain in sufficient numbers, which is in part a major leadership issue there. Education about the real isues was clouded by the "Project Fear" tactics of the Remain side, which few fully believed.

 

[Jagartrott]

Re: Re:

There's no denying this is one of the reasons but to tar 17 million people with that brush is entirely wrong.

I did not 'tar 17 million people'.
But it's quite clear that Blutto sees this in another light than many others. Immigration was the number one issue in the tabloids, and those tabloids supported the Brexit for the most part (with their usual nuanced portrayal of matters). And to people 'getting back' at De Gaulle et al. - I'm not too impressed with such reasoning. Not sure if De Gaulle is.

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re: Re:

There's no denying this is one of the reasons but to tar 17 million people with that brush is entirely wrong.

I did not 'tar 17 million people'.
But it's quite clear that Blutto sees this in another light than many others. Immigration was the number one issue in the tabloids, and those tabloids supported the Brexit for the most part (with their usual nuanced portrayal of matters). And to people 'getting back' at De Gaulle et al. - I'm not too impressed with such reasoning. Not sure if De Gaulle is.

I am sure you remember who he was! He was one of the reasons we did not enter the Common Market sooner than we did. There are passionate Europeans in Britain but the project has never been viewed here as a bulwark against a recurrennce of the wars that bedevilled continental Europe on its own lands.

I am sure you appreciate that not only did some of the tabloids take the other side, but not all the 17 million Leave voters read them. People have had other significant motives. You don't like the "tarred" metaphor - fair enugh but it is an over-generalisation and will not explain the Leave vote. It could possibly explain why leave won i.e. the margin in the outome between the two options.

 

[roundabout]

Re:

....this is absolutely hilarious and bang on....


https://off-guardian.org/2016/06/25/guardian-watch-insults-fly-in-post-brexit-hysteria/

....pretty nice summation of the story so far...." voting isn't that democratic" indeed....bravo Guardian....good job shilling there...and I can actually remember when that was a paper worth reading....has Murdoch secretly bought it or something...

Cheers

Yes, it's absolutely hilarious how the author is using an index made up of companies who benefit from the drop in the pound to show that voting to leave is not a big deal.

A 14% loss for FTSE 250 over just 2 days is less funny and doesn't fit the agenda.

 

[roundabout]

And for anyone caring enough, here are the possible exit strategies

http://www.eureferendum.com/documents/flexcit.pdf