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British politics

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gooner said:
rhubroma said:
But this can be said of neoliberal "trickle down" policy and the elité thus created in Washington since Reagan as well. Europe though has also been rocked by neo-migration (the insidious effects of globalization) and here is were the racial issues come to the fore. Let's not kid ourselves about that. They are fueling every nationalist-populist movement in Europe right now and their leaders, from Farange, to Le Pen, to Salvini, etc.
But what Vincent Browne said in the article got lost in the debate among Farage's nonsense and the topic of discussion that should have been discussed more was marginalised to a degree during the campaign.

And the elites were hugely in numerical favour of Remain, to suggest otherwise is preposterous.

I can add to the above piece with the fiscal treaty which Cameron refused to sign up to and spoke about people in the room(namely Sarkozy) who wanted everyone to sign up to it with no questions asked. Then Yanis Varoufakis who was over here last week, spoke about Michael Noonan(Irish finance minster) who was told to sign off on something with Greece having not been told what he actually was signing for.

I'm for the freedom of movement among other things within the EU but would want nothing to do with the EU in its current clique and dictatorial format. You only to see this clique of the founding members of foreign minsters who met the this week to discuss the result, while no place for little old Ireland who it will effect the most. That applies also to the other member countries.
But you need to qualify Gooner, which elité you are talking about. Since the financial establishment yes voted Remain, but the industrial elité voted Brexit.
 
Re: Re:

wrinklyvet said:
Jagartrott said:
wrinklyvet said:
This incisive article (from Salt Lake of all places!) best describes the main reasons for the vote to me and will be instructive to those who cannot see beyond the chaos that currently seems to reign. http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/4055419-155/lowry-brexit-vote-a-victory-for#sthash.0HttxHnm
Well, self-government of course sounds really nice - but then you can forget access to the common European market, because access means living by the rules set by the EU. The EU you do no longer have a voice in. This includes free movement of labour. Your fishery grounds are subject to international regulation, again, no self-government there. The products you want to export into the EU will have to obey EU regulations. Et cetera, et cetera. Self-government is possible - if you accept huge economic changes. Did the 'leave' campaign make this clear? Seeing Johnsen's latest declarations, I don't think so.

By the way, as I think this move is good for the EU in the longer term, I am pro-Brexit.

Yes, it does sound really nice, especially to those who remember it. I have little doubt that the other issues will prove less intractable than at first appears. The Common Fisheries Policy of the EU is another story. I should like to see changes and believe it can be achieved, but sadly so much of the industry has already been lost that in many traditional fishing ports there are nearly no fishermen left. Incidentally, as you will know, we entered a Common Market and found ourselves in a centralising political project. Many people have rebelled against that and it is a trend in other countries too.
But that's because politics, as such, has abdicated to the market diktats, hence the deception Jagartrott raised.
 
http://m.investing.com/rates-bonds/uk-10-year-bond-yield

Ratings agencies are irrelevant vis a vis currency issuing govts. Uk was downgraded in the aftermath of brexit yet the yields went downwards as the country's debt servicing ability improved. The ridiculous maastricht criteria do not bind it even in a roundabout way anymore. It sets the policy rate where it wants and as the issuer of the sterling can always make any payment in the said denomination at will.

Whether brexit serves the little woman remains to be seen as the battle is fought out. As such it does nothing but maybe, just maybe, puts class and inequality back in central stage. There is obviusly the downside that it has come with a cost of having been framed in the ukip anti immigration stance.
 
Re:

meat puppet said:
http://m.investing.com/rates-bonds/uk-10-year-bond-yield

Ratings agencies are irrelevant vis a vis currency issuing govts. Uk was downgraded in the aftermath of brexit yet the yields went downwards as the country's debt servicing ability improved. The ridiculous maastricht criteria do not bind it even in a roundabout way anymore. It sets the policy rate where it wants and as the issuer of the sterling can always make any payment in the said denomination at will.

Whether brexit serves the little woman remains to be seen as the battle is fought out. As such it does nothing but maybe, just maybe, puts class and inequality back in central stage. There is obviusly the downside that it has come with a cost of having been framed in the ukip anti immigration stance.
This has been the lure of the Italian reactionary movements, because pre-Euro the lira was devalued per convenience and this enhanced exports, bolstered the economy and enabled Italy to manage its debt much better.

And precisely because they are reactionaries, which by definition means those who oppose social changes too sudden and destabilizing (and globalization from many points of view is), the downside you bring up is real. Since every action must have its equal and contrary action (a "reaction" in point of fact), reactionary was the Vande insurrection against the Parisian Jacobins, reactionary was sanfedismo against the advance of bourgeoisie democracy and reactionary is ukip and the other Euro nationalist parties nostalgic for the "good ol' times." Of course there is also another reactionary type connected with its old categories and social solidarity causes, to which I may, from a few perspectives, belong.
 
I think Gordon Brown's piece in The Guardian today hits the nail on the head. (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/29/key-lesson-of-brexit-globalisation-must-work-for-all-of-britain)

I mean, what does leave really solve? I can understand why people are unhappy with the EU and with their government, but if one wants to deal with the challenges of today, turning your back to international cooperation does not work.

Surely their dissatisfaction should be expressed at their national election, so they make their leaders understand what they want fixed.
 
Jul 4, 2009
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Re:

Netserk said:
I think Gordon Brown's piece in The Guardian today hits the nail on the head. (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/29/key-lesson-of-brexit-globalisation-must-work-for-all-of-britain)

I mean, what does leave really solve? I can understand why people are unhappy with the EU and with their government, but if one wants to deal with the challenges of today, turning your back to international cooperation does not work.

Surely their dissatisfaction should be expressed at their national election, so they make their leaders understand what they want fixed.
....always nice to hear from the "Blair Brigade" their Third Way has been so critical in helping do something or other.....

.....soooo, exactly which vehicle for international cooperation are you referring to....surely not the EU ( lets remember that cooperation implies a two way street, a collaboration, a partnership, not imposition of diktats from all powerful unelected officials )....if international cooperation is the goal there are other avenues available that operate in a democratic fashion and not like the diktatorial bulldozer that crushed Greece....

Cheers
 
Jul 4, 2009
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....very nice to see the EU responding to recent troubling developments in such a fashion....

European Parliament Plans To Remove English As An Official Language

by Tyler Durden

Jun 28, 2016 3:55 PM

There has been a lot of speculation surrounding what the changes will be in the relationship between the UK and the European Union as a result of the Brexit referendum. One thing we do know, is that according to a senior MEP, English will no longer be an official language of the European Union.

Danuta Hubner, the head of the European Parliament's Constitutional Afairs Committee (AFCO), warned Monday that English will not be one of the European Union's official languages after Britain leaves the EU. As Politico reports, English is one of the EU's 24 official languages because the UK identified it as its own official language, Hubner said. But as soon as Britain completes the process to leave the EU, English could lose its status.

"We have regulation, where every EU country has the right to notify one official language. The Irish have notified Gaelic, and the Maltese have notified Maltese, so you have only the UK notifying English. If we don't have the UK, we don't have English." said Hubner.

As we reported, during a Tuesday speech to EU lawmakers European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker didn't speak any English, instead making the speech only in French and German. The games started much earlier than Tuesday however. According to the WSJ, last Friday and over the weekend, Juncker gave statements and interviews only to German media, a decision that officials said was deliberate. Then on Monday during the commission's daily media briefing, chief spokesman Margaritis Schinas made his opening statement at in French only, rather than the usual French and English.

Several members of the European Parliament are worried that Juncker's decision not to speak English might send the wrong message, not only to British people.

From the WSJ

“It’s as provocative as some of the arguments of the Leave campaign. Now we should react with openness and generosity,” said Sorin Moisa, a center-left lawmaker from Romania.

“It’s like children in the playground,” said Cecilia Wikström, a centrist MEP from Sweden. “Brexit is to me so dramatic, so huge…that we shouldn’t react in this symbolic way.”

Ms. Wikström said that keeping English now could actually make communications in the EU a bit fairer, since most of those speaking it would be using a foreign language.
....well at the very least this helps the Leave side feel good about their decision....like really, who wants to deal with organizations that act, uhhh, "like children in the playground".....well done EU, bravo....so venial, so short-sighted, so stupid....and its not like this was a single isolated incident...

Cheers
 
Jul 4, 2009
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....some more Brexit fallout....

A significant crack has been unexpectedly opened in the wall of Europe’s disciplined obedience to the United States. I’m not only referring to the possible long-term consequences for U.S.-European relations in the wake of Britain’s decision to leave the European Union, but the unlikely blow against Washington’s information war on Moscow delivered by Germany’s foreign minister, Frank-Walter Steinmeier, who a week ago shockingly accused the North Atlantic Treaty Organization of “war-mongering” against Russia.

Since the Bush administration’s twisting of events in the 2008 Russia-Georgia war, which the E.U. blamed on Georgia, Western populations have been subjected to the steady message that Russia is a “threat” to the West and is guilty of “aggression.” This reached a peak with the false narrative of events in Ukraine, in which blatant evidence of the West’s complicity in a violent coups d’état was omitted from corporate media accounts, while Russia’s assistance to eastern Ukrainians resisting the coup has been framed as a Russian “invasion.”
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article44985.htm

....and....

Britain’s exiting of the EU puts Washington’s in a geopolitical dilemma. As the New York Times headlined: “With ‘Brexit,’ Washington’s direct line to the continent suddenly frays”.

The NY Times reports: “American officials struggling to reimagine their strategy after Britain’s decision to divorce the European Union say the most urgent challenge will be to find a way to replace their most reliable, sympathetic partner in the hallways of European capitals. It will not be easy.” When Britain first joined the early European Economic Community in 1973, it was following a policy directed by Washington. With its “special relationship”, as coined by Churchill, Britain would ensure that Washington’s geopolitical interests prevailed on the continental Europeans, in particular the Germans and French, who were always suspected of being inclined towards socialism and rapprochement with Russia.

It is arguable that the EU was a political project engineered by the American Central Intelligence Agency, for which Britain served a crucial steering role.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article44991.htm

Cheers
 
Re:

Scott SoCal said:
A small taste of what the Brits have been getting from the EU for some time now.
Hmmm. Except that, it's the Brits that have been trolling the EU for decades now. Exceptional status, privilages, stalling or blocking many reforms, pushing forward the agenda of rapid expansion, etc etc.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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Re: Re:

Amsterhammer said:
Scott SoCal said:
A small taste of what the Brits have been getting from the EU for some time now.
What exactly are you talking about? Source(s)?
Hey man, directives coming down from Brussels banning hair dyers and vacuum cleaners are just the beginning. Light bulbs, overly curvaceous bananas, water really doesn't hydrate, prunes don't make you regular, driving while diabetic, Danish pastries with cinnamon content....

Paternalism. Apparently the Brits have had enough.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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Re: Re:

Jagartrott said:
Scott SoCal said:
A small taste of what the Brits have been getting from the EU for some time now.
Hmmm. Except that, it's the Brits that have been trolling the EU for decades now. Exceptional status, privilages, stalling or blocking many reforms, pushing forward the agenda of rapid expansion, etc etc.
Reforms? Like straight bananas?
 
Jul 4, 2009
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Re: Re:

ferryman said:
Scott SoCal said:
Jagartrott said:
Scott SoCal said:
A small taste of what the Brits have been getting from the EU for some time now.
Hmmm. Except that, it's the Brits that have been trolling the EU for decades now. Exceptional status, privilages, stalling or blocking many reforms, pushing forward the agenda of rapid expansion, etc etc.
Reforms? Like straight bananas?
Are you being straight. Idiot.
....no he has his tongue firmly pressing into his cheek....its called sarcasm, you may want to acquaint yourself with the concept because it is in very common use in these here parts...and if you can't figure that one out , please, for the sake of everyone that enjoys playing here, find another playground...

Cheers
 
Jun 22, 2009
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Re: Re:

Scott SoCal said:
Amsterhammer said:
Scott SoCal said:
A small taste of what the Brits have been getting from the EU for some time now.
What exactly are you talking about? Source(s)?
Hey man, directives coming down from Brussels banning hair dyers and vacuum cleaners are just the beginning. Light bulbs, overly curvaceous bananas, water really doesn't hydrate, prunes don't make you regular, driving while diabetic, Danish pastries with cinnamon content....

Paternalism. Apparently the Brits have had enough.
This is even more pitiful than your usual non grasping of what's going on. So much stupid. Come live in the EU, then you can talk about British motives for their suicide head shot.

Blutto, Scotty's first sentence was not tongue-in cheek, just really, really dumb and uninformed.
 
Re: Re:

Amsterhammer said:
Scott SoCal said:
Amsterhammer said:
Scott SoCal said:
A small taste of what the Brits have been getting from the EU for some time now.
What exactly are you talking about? Source(s)?
Hey man, directives coming down from Brussels banning hair dyers and vacuum cleaners are just the beginning. Light bulbs, overly curvaceous bananas, water really doesn't hydrate, prunes don't make you regular, driving while diabetic, Danish pastries with cinnamon content....

Paternalism. Apparently the Brits have had enough.


This is even more pitiful than your usual non grasping of what's going on. So much stupid. Come live in the EU, then you can talk about British motives for their suicide head shot.

Blutto, Scotty's first sentence was not tongue-in cheek, just really, really dumb and uninformed.
I thought it was supposed to be post, not poster.

Anyway, when it turns out that the Brits have more cards to play than you seem to think, it will be obvious that this was not a suicide head shot. Suicides don't usually have any cards to play. Even Angela Merkel realises the need to handle this carefully, for the common good.
 
Dec 7, 2010
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Re: Re:

Amsterhammer said:
Scott SoCal said:
Amsterhammer said:
Scott SoCal said:
A small taste of what the Brits have been getting from the EU for some time now.
What exactly are you talking about? Source(s)?
Hey man, directives coming down from Brussels banning hair dyers and vacuum cleaners are just the beginning. Light bulbs, overly curvaceous bananas, water really doesn't hydrate, prunes don't make you regular, driving while diabetic, Danish pastries with cinnamon content....

Paternalism. Apparently the Brits have had enough.
This is even more pitiful than your usual non grasping of what's going on. So much stupid. Come live in the EU, then you can talk about British motives for their suicide head shot.

Blutto, Scotty's first sentence was not tongue-in cheek, just really, really dumb and uninformed.
I disagree. I thought it was sarcasm as well. The fact that someone got away with calling another person an idiot is also a little well out of line,,,,,,,,,, even for here.

Also I think it is obvious that we will disagree with respect to the UK here on the subject of an exit from the EU.
They voted and the vote was to exit. I'm sure they can handle themselves without the EU. I suspect some other countries have had about enough of it also.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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Re: Re:

Amsterhammer said:
Scott SoCal said:
Amsterhammer said:
Scott SoCal said:
A small taste of what the Brits have been getting from the EU for some time now.
What exactly are you talking about? Source(s)?
Hey man, directives coming down from Brussels banning hair dyers and vacuum cleaners are just the beginning. Light bulbs, overly curvaceous bananas, water really doesn't hydrate, prunes don't make you regular, driving while diabetic, Danish pastries with cinnamon content....

Paternalism. Apparently the Brits have had enough.
This is even more pitiful than your usual non grasping of what's going on. So much stupid. Come live in the EU, then you can talk about British motives for their suicide head shot.

Blutto, Scotty's first sentence was not tongue-in cheek, just really, really dumb and uninformed.
Why in the hell would I want to live under EU rule when I've got the brilliant governance here in the good ol' US of A?

Elites like you and Jamie Dimond are upset? So what?
 
Nov 8, 2012
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Re: Re:

wrinklyvet said:
Amsterhammer said:
Scott SoCal said:
Amsterhammer said:
Scott SoCal said:
A small taste of what the Brits have been getting from the EU for some time now.
What exactly are you talking about? Source(s)?
Hey man, directives coming down from Brussels banning hair dyers and vacuum cleaners are just the beginning. Light bulbs, overly curvaceous bananas, water really doesn't hydrate, prunes don't make you regular, driving while diabetic, Danish pastries with cinnamon content....

Paternalism. Apparently the Brits have had enough.


This is even more pitiful than your usual non grasping of what's going on. So much stupid. Come live in the EU, then you can talk about British motives for their suicide head shot.

Blutto, Scotty's first sentence was not tongue-in cheek, just really, really dumb and uninformed.
I thought it was supposed to be post, not poster.

Anyway, when it turns out that the Brits have more cards to play than you seem to think, it will be obvious that this was not a suicide head shot. Suicides don't usually have any cards to play. Even Angela Merkel realises the need to handle this carefully, for the common good.
It is rather interesting how concerned the powerful are over the prospects of further break up. I wonder why?

By the measure of some here on this thread the EU managed to ditch a bad seed. Things should be great now.
 

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