British politics

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Honestly, the PLP right now is making d'Alema look like a faithful dog. Appalling behaviour. Trying to oust a leader without an election less than a year after he won with 58% of the vote. Had this been a Blairite there wouldn't be this discussion, the right of the PLP care more about their careers than principles and what the Labour party stands for. Eagle knows she will lose any election, by a lot, so wants the coup to finish before that happens. Disgusting IMO. This is been a long time coming, the right and even soft left of the party couldn't handle a Socialist at the helm of a Socialist party, so have done everything they can to eliminate him. They have gone against him, in fought, belittled him during an election campaign (local ones, which were pretty good considering most of the PLP wanted to lose). The one time a politician is honest he gets insulted. They have no respect for democracy. I am no big fan of Corbyn himself, I agree with what he stands for (mostly) but he doesn't inspire, but another right wing leader is the last thing we need. I will vote Green next election should Labour have a faux Tory as leader
 
Mar 14, 2016
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Brullnux said:
Honestly, the PLP right now is making d'Alema look like a faithful dog. Appalling behaviour. Trying to oust a leader without an election less than a year after he won with 58% of the vote.
Corbyn was elected to lead the party, was he not? And he has proven unable to do this job, has he not?
 
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CheckMyPecs said:
Brullnux said:
Honestly, the PLP right now is making d'Alema look like a faithful dog. Appalling behaviour. Trying to oust a leader without an election less than a year after he won with 58% of the vote.
Corbyn was elected to lead the party, was he not? And he has proven unable to do this job, has he not?
It's difficult to lead a party when most the MPs in it wanted you out before you even became leader.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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python said:
here's another informative article on the subject:

What are the odds of putting Blair in the Hague for what he did to Iraq?
http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/will-tony-blair-end-hague-what-he-did-iraq-899592101

i believe wholeheartedly that if politicians(any politicians, particularly the hot heads from the western societies basking themselves in a superiority complex) were involved in illegal war crimes, the MUST face a criminal prosecution.

so far, we mostly see some small fish and few careless dictators among the convicts, but it would spare a great deal of human lives if the lapdog, and better yet, his monkey-faced master went into a dungeon.

hundreds of young brits, thousands of young americans, millions of middle easterners would not die and perhaps many more will be saved if the politician KNOW it could be a crime. but as long as america and its lapdogs will be acting with impunity, the crimes will go on...
Thanks. I'll be following this with great interest.
Indeed it would be a milestone event if Blair were to face prosecution.
Agree of course about Bush and Cheney.
But hey, Blair would be a promising start.
 
Mar 14, 2016
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Brullnux said:
CheckMyPecs said:
Brullnux said:
Honestly, the PLP right now is making d'Alema look like a faithful dog. Appalling behaviour. Trying to oust a leader without an election less than a year after he won with 58% of the vote.
Corbyn was elected to lead the party, was he not? And he has proven unable to do this job, has he not?
It's difficult to lead a party when most the MPs in it wanted you out before you even became leader.
So you agree Corbyn, for whatever reasons, is unable to do the job to which he was elected?
 
Apr 3, 2016
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Chilcot. 7 years and quite a few million pounds to state the obvious.

Be interesting to see the Conservatives response, given that they were just as hawkish as Bliar.
 
Re: Re:

CheckMyPecs said:
Brullnux said:
CheckMyPecs said:
Brullnux said:
Honestly, the PLP right now is making d'Alema look like a faithful dog. Appalling behaviour. Trying to oust a leader without an election less than a year after he won with 58% of the vote.
Corbyn was elected to lead the party, was he not? And he has proven unable to do this job, has he not?
It's difficult to lead a party when most the MPs in it wanted you out before you even became leader.
So you agree Corbyn, for whatever reasons, is unable to do the job to which he was elected?
No, because by using 'is' you imply that him being unable to do his job is a permanent action. He has been unable to do his job to his maximum ability, yes.

Not sure what point you are trying to make here. If an athlete is signed to race but injures themselves, they are not sacked for not racing at their full ability are they? It is not Corbyn's fault that the PLP are so disconnected with the party membership and voters. It is not Corbyn's fault that a (large) group of his MPs have decided that they are more important and know better than 400,000 little people. It is not Corbyn's fault that his MPs have little respect for democracy when it isn't in their favour.

The MPs have created more of an opposition to Corbyn than the Tory government, which shows so much disregard towards the people whom Labour are supposed to represent. Corbyn can win an election, it's wrong to believe otherwise when it is May, a former hedge fund manager and Gove on the other side. But he will only win with a united party, just like every political leader. Even a facade of unity will do. When Blair was elected you did not see the left of the party being so unresponsive and counter productive. They criticised, constructively usually, but mostly sucked it up and continued, acknowledging that Blair was the rightful leader. Anyway, Corbyn will not be removed now because it is too late - most of the coup leaders voted for the Iraq War so they have little chance of winning an election against an anti-Iraq was activist, now that it has been thrust onto the main stage of UK politics again.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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kwikki said:
Chilcot. 7 years and quite a few million pounds to state the obvious.

Be interesting to see the Conservatives response, given that they were just as hawkish as Bliar.
This was a problem in the Netherlands, too.
Both the government and the opposition supported the war, so when the whole thing was exposed as a scam, the opposition was toothless and nothing really happened.
 
Mar 14, 2016
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Brullnux said:
No, because by using 'is' you imply that him being unable to do his job is a permanent action.
Unless Labour MPs start resigning en masse, the situation could last at least until 2020. Not a short-term problem.
 
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CheckMyPecs said:
Brullnux said:
No, because by using 'is' you imply that him being unable to do his job is a permanent action.
Unless Labour MPs start resigning en masse, the situation could last at least until 2020. Not a short-term problem.
So we agree on the problem - Labour MPs refusing to create a united front for Corbyn, but disagree on the solution? I think that it's the MPs fault and they should just suck it up and move on, try to win and if they lose then they will win the leadership campaign in 2020. I don't think they want to win, though: their fear of actual socialism rivals the American Republicans' of the 1950s. I feel you believe that it is Corbyn's fault, and hence he should leave.
 
Mar 14, 2016
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Brullnux said:
CheckMyPecs said:
Brullnux said:
No, because by using 'is' you imply that him being unable to do his job is a permanent action.
Unless Labour MPs start resigning en masse, the situation could last at least until 2020. Not a short-term problem.
So we agree on the problem - Labour MPs refusing to create a united front for Corbyn, but disagree on the solution? I think that it's the MPs fault and they should just suck it up and move on, try to win and if they lose then they will win the leadership campaign in 2020. I don't think they want to win, though: their fear of actual socialism rivals the American Republicans' of the 1950s. I feel you believe that it is Corbyn's fault, and hence he should leave.
Since getting elected, what do you think Corbyn has done to earn his MPs' trust?
 
Not much, but they had no trust in him to begin with, and therein lies the problem

Anyway, you know that report saying that only 36% of 18-24 year olds voted in the EU referendum? According to a Politics Professor that was bs, and the figure is closer to 70%. Not much below overall turnout, and much higher than normal.
 
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Brullnux said:
Not much, but they had no trust in him to begin with, and therein lies the problem

Anyway, you know that report saying that only 36% of 18-24 year olds voted in the EU referendum? According to a Politics Professor that was bs, and the figure is closer to 70%. Not much below overall turnout, and much higher than normal.
Not quite so simple. The BBC says
Much attention was attracted by a tweet from Sky Data that seemingly implied that only 36% of 18-24 year olds had turned out to vote.

In practice, it seems the figure referred to people's likelihood of voting rather than whether they had actually voted.

In contrast, Prof Michael Bruter and Dr. Sara Harrison of the London School of Economics have suggested that as many as 70% of 18-24 year olds might have voted, only slightly below the official figure of 72% for all voters.

In truth, reliable information on the level of turnout among particular groups of voters is currently not available.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36737374
 
Sep 25, 2009
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Brullnux said:
Theresa May the new PM. The second (completely) unelected PM in 10 years. The third in 25. Talk about a perfect democracy.
democracy or not, she's an interesting person to lead the kingdom in one of its history defining periods...

the childless woman and a longest lasting home secretary was often compared to the 'iron lady' which, judging from numerous reports, appears a stretch. the pundits say, she's not an ideologue but a moralist. frankly, i dont see a huge difference but am looking open-minded to her lead.

one thing i sense w/o any particularly hard evidence, i'd be inclined to take ms may at face value way before another woman likely to be elected to lead a former colony of england rather soon..
 
Re: Re:

python said:
Brullnux said:
Theresa May the new PM. The second (completely) unelected PM in 10 years. The third in 25. Talk about a perfect democracy.
democracy or not, she's an interesting person to lead the kingdom in one of its history defining periods...

the childless woman and a longest lasting home secretary was often compared to the 'iron lady' which, judging from numerous reports, appears a stretch. the pundits say, she's not an ideologue but a moralist. frankly, i dont see a huge difference but am looking open-minded to her lead.

one thing i sense w/o any particularly hard evidence, i'd be inclined to take ms may at face value way before another woman likely to be elected to lead a former colony of england rather soon..
This really is becoming tiresome. Can you name me one colony of England? Is Canada the 51st State of America? Is Iceland still governed by Norway? It's not difficult.
 
Apr 16, 2016
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ferryman said:
python said:
Brullnux said:
Theresa May the new PM. The second (completely) unelected PM in 10 years. The third in 25. Talk about a perfect democracy.
democracy or not, she's an interesting person to lead the kingdom in one of its history defining periods...

the childless woman and a longest lasting home secretary was often compared to the 'iron lady' which, judging from numerous reports, appears a stretch. the pundits say, she's not an ideologue but a moralist. frankly, i dont see a huge difference but am looking open-minded to her lead.

one thing i sense w/o any particularly hard evidence, i'd be inclined to take ms may at face value way before another woman likely to be elected to lead a former colony of england rather soon..
This really is becoming tiresome. Can you name me one colony of England? Is Canada the 51st State of America? Is Iceland still governed by Norway? It's not difficult.
Northern Ireland. !/

The financial markets are going to swing a hammer.
 
Re: Re:

Starstruck said:
ferryman said:
python said:
Brullnux said:
Theresa May the new PM. The second (completely) unelected PM in 10 years. The third in 25. Talk about a perfect democracy.
democracy or not, she's an interesting person to lead the kingdom in one of its history defining periods...

the childless woman and a longest lasting home secretary was often compared to the 'iron lady' which, judging from numerous reports, appears a stretch. the pundits say, she's not an ideologue but a moralist. frankly, i dont see a huge difference but am looking open-minded to her lead.

one thing i sense w/o any particularly hard evidence, i'd be inclined to take ms may at face value way before another woman likely to be elected to lead a former colony of england rather soon..
This really is becoming tiresome. Can you name me one colony of England? Is Canada the 51st State of America? Is Iceland still governed by Norway? It's not difficult.
Northern Ireland. !/

The financial markets are going to swing a hammer.
NI is certainly not. I rest my case m'lord.....
 
Apr 16, 2016
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Re: Re:

ferryman said:
Starstruck said:
ferryman said:
python said:
Brullnux said:
Theresa May the new PM. The second (completely) unelected PM in 10 years. The third in 25. Talk about a perfect democracy.
democracy or not, she's an interesting person to lead the kingdom in one of its history defining periods...

the childless woman and a longest lasting home secretary was often compared to the 'iron lady' which, judging from numerous reports, appears a stretch. the pundits say, she's not an ideologue but a moralist. frankly, i dont see a huge difference but am looking open-minded to her lead.

one thing i sense w/o any particularly hard evidence, i'd be inclined to take ms may at face value way before another woman likely to be elected to lead a former colony of england rather soon..
This really is becoming tiresome. Can you name me one colony of England? Is Canada the 51st State of America? Is Iceland still governed by Norway? It's not difficult.
Northern Ireland. !/

The financial markets are going to swing a hammer.
NI is certainly not. I rest my case m'lord.....
Take it up with Sinn Fein under the new economic circumstance Gov.

What is the UK? We may as well watch the Greenland ice sheet melt.
 
Re: Re:

ferryman said:
python said:
Brullnux said:
Theresa May the new PM. The second (completely) unelected PM in 10 years. The third in 25. Talk about a perfect democracy.
democracy or not, she's an interesting person to lead the kingdom in one of its history defining periods...

the childless woman and a longest lasting home secretary was often compared to the 'iron lady' which, judging from numerous reports, appears a stretch. the pundits say, she's not an ideologue but a moralist. frankly, i dont see a huge difference but am looking open-minded to her lead.

one thing i sense w/o any particularly hard evidence, i'd be inclined to take ms may at face value way before another woman likely to be elected to lead a former colony of england rather soon..
This really is becoming tiresome. Can you name me one colony of England? Is Canada the 51st State of America? Is Iceland still governed by Norway? It's not difficult.
Fiji...
 
Re:

Brullnux said:
Theresa May the new PM. The second (completely) unelected PM in 10 years. The third in 25. Talk about a perfect democracy.
There appears to be a mispprehension that we elect prime ministers like the Americans may elect presidents, or that we ought to be doing that. In fact we elect Members of Parliament and the leader of a party with a majority, or who can form one in coalition with another party, will form the government. Though the leader of that party will be entitled to become prime minister, he or she is not elected as such.

Admittedly in General Elections we tend to know who is in the frame and may become prime minister, but the party in government, (like any other party), is entitled to change its leader and if it does, to change the country's prime minister at any time, though to do so often would be tiresome!

It was no more a valid complaint against Labour or New Labour when they did that than it is against the Conservative party now, or at the time when Thatcher was deposed.

If, in a General Electiion, you thought you were voting for Blair, or Milliband, or Cameron etc that was of course technically an error unless they were your local contituency candidate, though people have so many motives for their vote.

So, simply, our version of democracy does not depend in any way upon electing prime ministers and it never has.
 
Funnily enough, somebody else just explained this better than I just did!
Damian Green, a Tory MP and close ally of Mrs May, insisted she did not need to call a General Election after Labour called for her to hold one.

When asked if Mrs May had a mandate, Mr Green told BBC Radio Four: "I think she does because she was a very senior member of a Government that was elected just over a year ago.

"We don't elect presidents in this country. We elect a parliament, we elect MPs for individual seats.

"And the question the Queen asks formally, constitutionally, is 'can you command a majority in the House of Commons?' And Theresa can command a majority, so there is no need for an election."
 
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