British politics

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Last year, the reaction of young people to the older generations' leave vote was unacceptable.

This year, the older generations' reaction to young people voting for Labour has been unacceptable and downright patronising. After some calls for a re-education program, the general response has been "the young people are misinformed" or "duped and bribed by freebies" or that they just voted because of the "bribe" of free tuition. I understand that the reaction is quite similar to last year, but it's very wrong nonetheless. No young person was bribed or duped; just because they believe in a larger state on the scale of other European states does not mean they are idiots. Yes, free tuition was nice for them, but take it away and I guarantee that young people would've voted the same way and in the same numbers anyway. That's because Corbyn looked honest and for once we saw a manifesto that wasn't focused on damaging austerity and cuts to education, or just an attempt for re-election in five years time. It was manifesto of change, and young people responded. They aren't idiots, a lot of them are students or post-graduates, and did not think that all this would come free and easy. They knew raised taxes was probably going to come as a result of this (I know Labour's manifesto promised only tax rises for the top 5% but that was quite an optimistic target - a 1p raise for the top third or top half could have also come) but were prepared to pay extra for it. It's been insulting the way some older Tories have treated them. And yes, I completely acknowledge that it goes the other way too.
 

Singer01

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Nov 18, 2013
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Armchair cyclist said:
After very contrasting visits to Grenfell Tower, those ratings are probably even farther apart.
i cant remember when there was such a vast difference in empathy and 'people skills' between the leaders of the 2 parties.
 
I know daily mail readers are not representative of the average tory, but they are truly heartless. A lot of their reactions has been to blame victims for being foreign and too poor to afford non-social housing - they should be 'thankful', apparently, that the state paid for their housing. The tories' approach to poor people during the election seemed to be 'it could be worse, you could be dead', but they've now adopted 'yes they're dead, but at least they weren't homeless while they were alive'.

As more revelations come out about the horrific incident, the more the council and the process of subcontracting these buildings comes under scrutiny and pressure. It was little more than a vanity project: £10m to make it prettier, and ignoring tenants' concerns about fire alarms and sprinklers. As some have said, it is a terrifying indictment of how some sections of authority view the poor. The Kensington and Chelsea Borough Council, the KCMTO, the companies, Gavin Barwell etc. are under immense pressure. The latter especially is. As housing minister, he sat on a report on council housing and never released it, and now is still refusing to answer questions about it. Clearly not great news for him. Barwell (the author of 'How to win a marginal seat'; and also as of the election, the loser of said marginal seat - a new book 'How to lose a marginal seat' is in the pipelines, or so I have heard) is immensely popular among the Conservative Party, especially among the extreme neo-liberal wing, and was recently made the Chief of Staff of May, after Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill were blamed for the election result. Theresa May might be looking for a new one again soon. What a sorry state of affairs, and what a pathetic government. This country deserves better right wing representation than that party.

https://jacobinmag.com/2017/06/grenfell-tower-fire-inequality-housing
 

Singer01

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Brullnux said:
Riots 2.0 could be on the cards here if things continue like this...
Absolutely, the previous riots were ridiculous, known criminal with gun gets shot. This could be a proper powder keg, we don't care about you and we are prepared to let you die to save a couple of quid.
 
Jul 4, 2009
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....don't know if this has been done thoroughly but some technical thingees about the recent tragic fire in London....and that for the sake of $6000 bit ? what a stupid bit of wrongheaded thinking...

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/infrastructure/a26951/grenfell-tower-blaze/?src=nl&mag=pop&list=nl_pnl_news&date=061717

Today, one major question remains, how did the fire spread so rapidly?

According to news reports since the fire, the answer, in part, seems to lie in cladding that was applied to the building as part of a refurbishment completed last year. Described as "rain screen cladding," it was added partly to improve the appearance of the building. A London newspaper has suggested that the cladding was to make the raw concrete tower less ugly when seen from new luxury housing nearby. (Public housing aside, Kensington is a prestige neighborhood where the average apartment price exceeds $1.7 million.)

However, similar cladding has been implicated in having worsened several previous fires. The type used in Grenfell Tower has been identified by the BBC as Reynobond, which consists of two thin sheets of aluminum sandwiching an insulating filling. The filling may be mineral wool or plastic. In this case it was an extruded thermoplastic called polyethylene – the same material used to make plastic bags. Polyethylene has a very low melting point and drips as it burns. This means the fire can spread upwards with the rising flames and downwards with melted, burning plastic at the same time
Another troubling element about this already terrible story: The Times of London reports that a fireproof version of the cladding used on Grenfell tower would have added just $6,000 more to what was already a $12 million refurbishment.

The UK's Building Research Establishment (BRE) carried out tests with this type of panel, and noted that "the panel, when exposed to the high temperatures of a developed fire, will tend to delaminate between the facing and core material, due to a combination of expansion of the membrane and softening of the bond line." In other words, the aluminum facings fall off, leaving the flammable plastic core exposed. Another troubling element about this already terrible story: The Times of London reports that a fireproof version of the cladding used on Grenfell tower would have added just $6,000 more to what was already a $12 million refurbishment.

There have been similar incidents around the world. A huge fire claimed The Address, a tower block in Dubai, on December 31 2015. This was an external cladding fire, with hot metal and melted core material showering down in the area and causing fires on adjacent roofs. The next day the area was found to be covered in the delaminated aluminum casings. Aluminum cladding with a plastic core was held responsible for the Lacrosse Building fire in Melbourne, Australia, in 2014. Fire raced through the building in minutes, due to the supposedly resistant cladding called Alucobest.

Although the cladding is the source of the problem, the way it's installed can also make matters even worse. Usually there is a gap between the cladding and the building, and if flames get caught in the gap, they will stretch out seeking fuel and oxygen. The visible flames in the fire are several feet high, but according to the BRE, inside a cavity they can be stretched out five to ten times as long. The gap between building and cladding effectively acts as a pipe carrying flame: "This may enable fire to spread rapidly, unseen, through the external cladding system, if appropriate fire barriers have not been provided," it says.
Cheers
 
blutto said:
....don't know if this has been done thoroughly but some technical thingees about the recent tragic fire in London....and that for the sake of $6000 bit ? what a stupid bit of wrongheaded thinking...

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/infrastructure/a26951/grenfell-tower-blaze/?src=nl&mag=pop&list=nl_pnl_news&date=061717

Today, one major question remains, how did the fire spread so rapidly?

According to news reports since the fire, the answer, in part, seems to lie in cladding that was applied to the building as part of a refurbishment completed last year. Described as "rain screen cladding," it was added partly to improve the appearance of the building. A London newspaper has suggested that the cladding was to make the raw concrete tower less ugly when seen from new luxury housing nearby. (Public housing aside, Kensington is a prestige neighborhood where the average apartment price exceeds $1.7 million.)

However, similar cladding has been implicated in having worsened several previous fires. The type used in Grenfell Tower has been identified by the BBC as Reynobond, which consists of two thin sheets of aluminum sandwiching an insulating filling. The filling may be mineral wool or plastic. In this case it was an extruded thermoplastic called polyethylene – the same material used to make plastic bags. Polyethylene has a very low melting point and drips as it burns. This means the fire can spread upwards with the rising flames and downwards with melted, burning plastic at the same time
Another troubling element about this already terrible story: The Times of London reports that a fireproof version of the cladding used on Grenfell tower would have added just $6,000 more to what was already a $12 million refurbishment.

The UK's Building Research Establishment (BRE) carried out tests with this type of panel, and noted that "the panel, when exposed to the high temperatures of a developed fire, will tend to delaminate between the facing and core material, due to a combination of expansion of the membrane and softening of the bond line." In other words, the aluminum facings fall off, leaving the flammable plastic core exposed. Another troubling element about this already terrible story: The Times of London reports that a fireproof version of the cladding used on Grenfell tower would have added just $6,000 more to what was already a $12 million refurbishment.

There have been similar incidents around the world. A huge fire claimed The Address, a tower block in Dubai, on December 31 2015. This was an external cladding fire, with hot metal and melted core material showering down in the area and causing fires on adjacent roofs. The next day the area was found to be covered in the delaminated aluminum casings. Aluminum cladding with a plastic core was held responsible for the Lacrosse Building fire in Melbourne, Australia, in 2014. Fire raced through the building in minutes, due to the supposedly resistant cladding called Alucobest.

Although the cladding is the source of the problem, the way it's installed can also make matters even worse. Usually there is a gap between the cladding and the building, and if flames get caught in the gap, they will stretch out seeking fuel and oxygen. The visible flames in the fire are several feet high, but according to the BRE, inside a cavity they can be stretched out five to ten times as long. The gap between building and cladding effectively acts as a pipe carrying flame: "This may enable fire to spread rapidly, unseen, through the external cladding system, if appropriate fire barriers have not been provided," it says.
Cheers
I've read this elsewhere too, pretty horrific cost cutting.

Worthwhile pointing out that it has been said that while the cladding could no doubt contribute significantly to the spread of the fire, it also spread internally, indicating that there was likely something else going on in the internal structure that allowed it to propagate so quickly.
 
I found this journalist/economist Andrew Lilico, whom I'd never heard of before, and truly realised how much fear Corbyn strikes in the hearts of the right. A lying dangerous Marxist extremist; a terrorist sympathiser; appointer of communists and a man with terrible ideals, like abandoning nuclear weapons (a policy in thought of in all countries of the world, mainly because 95% don't have any in the first place) and nationalisation on the scale of Germany and France. Lunatic. This clearly makes him unfit to be PM. And he wants to abolish the monarchy. Maybe. Not officially but it's what he DREAMS of at night. To EXECUTE the Queen. The traitor.
 
Pretty sure the eu are just trolling us right now. Macron is telling is that the door is always open, and until yesterday they kept making comments about how they are way more prepared than us.

I mean, turning up without negotiation papers probably didn't help our cause, and Barnier very explicitly said that there is no way that we have any say in anything. Which isn't a surprise to a lot of people as after all it is 27 against 1. Davis caved in after five minutes about the scheduling of the talks, and we can now expect a 100 billion bill, which the eu is asking for just because they can really. There is not much logic behind that number but we are so hapless that we'll end up paying it. The trade deal or whatever won't be negotiated until after the bill, citizen's rights and the Irish border have been decided, so basically the trade deal will begin to be discussed a week or so before the talks end. On a side note, Davis looked very dishevelled and slightly out of it - I mean I don't blame him, I would be too if I had to work with David Davis every day. But I think the realisation of how utterly unprepared they are has dawned on him.
 
I love seeing Tories genuinely considering David Davis as a leader. And Jacob Rees Mogg. The good leaders in the conservatives are ever scarcer than in Labour - such is the dearth of quality currently.

Anyway, things have settled down sort of: a government has been formed, May has all but given up and has begun asking Labour for policy ideas, Corbyn has gone to speak with Barnier in Brussels almost the same amount of times that May has, and the Tories are still confused about what they want to achieve in the next five years. Notably Hammond, who is probably the most cautious and sensible when it comes to Brexit among the Tories (transitional deal etc., perhaps staying in the single market - something which the Leave campaign often claimed they wanted to stay in), hates public sector workers and has claimed they are "overpaid", and that driving a modern train is so easy "even a woman could do it". He has denied the latter, but not the former and rightly so: it is a disgrace that nurses are going to foodbanks; they should be homeless.

The great repeal bill has come out, but it's not particularly well thought out (surprise there) and promises to give the government 'Henry VIII' powers, which allows them to pass whatever they want without parliament. Labour aren't happy, and with the slim majority they will want to block it until there is actual parliamentary oversight and we don't have a bunch of Tories deciding what we can and cannot have any more than they are now.
 
Re: Re:

Semper Fidelis said:
Jagartrott said:
I bought that same table from IKEA.
Good to see the EU funds aren't going to furniture then. Although most of them end up in expenses or administration anyway. I like that Davis forgot his notes, shows his skill and suitability to the role.

In other news, today I found out that if you make up your opposition's manifesto pledges, you can hold them to account when they say they're not going to do it. Clever.
 
Jul 4, 2009
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Leaked Photos Link Corbyn To Known International Terrorist
http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/casino-1.jpg

DAMNING photos which show Labour party leader Jeremy Corbyn talking to a notorious international terrorist have been found online, reinforcing calls in Westminster for the traitor to step down.

The photos, which span over the last 20 years, show Corbyn discussing matters of state with former Prime Minister Tony Blair, whose decision to commit British troops to a war in Iraq in 2003 based on false information has catapulted him to the top of the international terrorist list.

Blair, who many believe acted in full knowledge that the intelligence surrounding Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction was falsified, is held responsible for the deaths of thousands of soldiers and innocent civilians, with a recent attempt to privately prosecute him for his actions being narrowly defeated in the UK high court.

As such, his appearance in photos with Jeremy Corbyn has led to further calls for the Labour leader to stand down on the grounds of treason.
http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2017/08/02/leaked-photos-link-corbyn-to-known-international-terrorist

Cheers
 
Sep 25, 2009
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