Re: Re:
TheSpud said:
Nice one
I am interested in your views on independence though. You say you're a committed nationalist, fair enough. But what is your view on whether Scotland could survive financially if independent? I think its well known that under the current funding formula Scotland is running a sizeable deficit (and ok you may dispute that). But North Sea Oil / Gas is on the wane, Scotland has banned fracking so there would be no boom from that, Trident would be removed losing massive jobs & moey flowing. Would Scotland really survive that without massive cuts and/or tax rises?
For me, as a bystander, I would say you'd be mad to go for it - but I absolutely agree that as a defined and internationally recognised nation you have the right to seek independence.
As an anti-nationalist (but not necessarily anti-independence) I like this kind of discussion so I'll answer too. Feel free to ignore though!
My anti-nationalist stance isn't UK specific, it's a general stance. I dislike nationalism and separatism as I believe that it leads to the things we have been seeing since the Brexit vote. I also wonder where it will end. Once one split has happened what's to say you won't seeing two divided factions in the newly formed territory (this applies to everywhere, not just Scotland. My family is from Yorkshire and I could easily see the north of England pushing for independence/more autonomy in the future. Would we then see an east/west Pennines split? What about London as a city state? It may sound crazy but it really isn't that long ago that places like Dubrovnik, Venice etc. were city/small states centred on a single city and that list is enormous. I think separatism and nationalism breed mis-trust and discourage people from working together. I'm English and while I did not experience any aggression/violence during the Independence referendum I certainly had some fairly derogatory things said to me just because of my accent. I know that went the other way too.
Financially Scotland would survive fine. Likely we would be worse off to start with, I don't really think there can be much question about that but going forward it is much harder to predict and matters hugely on who is in power so is very hard to answer. There are many countries that survive fine who are worse of than Scotland currently would be as an independent nation.
The removal of Trident is a tricky one. As I said before, the missiles come from a US stockpile in Georgia and they are shuttled between Coulport and Aldermaston for refurbishment (as an aside I must admit that the accusations of the UK Government not wanting nuclear weapons near London but being happy to put them near Glasgow really irritated me. Aldermaston is pretty much as close to London as Faslane/Coulport is to Glasgow). I'm unsure if the renewal will mean permanent storage of warheads at Coulport or not. This all means that the location of the submarine base at Faslane was obviously not chosen, primarily, to aid in the logistics of missile servicing/transportation/loading etc. Pretty much anywhere in England would be more easily accessible from Aldermaston when compared to Faslane especially the south coast. I'm assuming that the depth of the lochs and the relative calm of that deep water due to the sheltered nature of sea lochs make it an attractive place to service and base the nuclear submarines. It may also be the distance between the two was a draw too. Removing trident doesn't necessarily change that and it could mean several proposals could be put forward (such as weapons can only be stored there for short periods, no storage but the submarines are still serviced there, only conventional weaponed submarines allowed etc.). It is worth noting that while removal of Trident removes nuclear weapons, the submarines are still nuclear powered so nuclear facilities would have to be maintained if the base were to remain. I also don't know if it's Faslane/Coulport or nowhere for Trident. If it were that would give the Scottish government a much bigger bargaining chip.
Basically it's a massive hot potato however I think it's possible too much is being made of it, I don't think it has a huge contribution to the Scottish economy, although I could be wrong. If it goes it goes and I'm sure Scotland would still survive.
The reason I'm not against independence is because it is fairly obvious Scotland is very poorly represented within the UK government. The Tories couldn't care less and Labour took Scottish support as a given so we are very much left to second best and expected to put up with whatever is decided/given/taken. The EU referendum is a perfect example and possibly the final nail in the coffin for many people here. Maybe Scotland would struggle to get into the EU on its own or maybe it would take several years, but remaining part of the Union means Scotland doesn't even have that choice. My pro-independence arguments have never been financial, I think they are very difficult to make a case for, but it is very easy to make a case on ideological grounds. With each major decision that is made it is clear that the people of Scotland, which includes me (I wish Sturgeon would stop saying the Scottish people), have a very different ideological viewpoint from the people of England and Wales, but Scotland is forced to live with the decisions made by others. That is the one reason that I think could make anyone vote for independence and the EU referendum just made it much, much easier to campaign with.
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