British politics

[TheTibetanHat]

Re:

I'm a bit surprised that the government is so lacking in confidence that they are bothering taking it to appeal,

Anything that drags it out, this way May might have an excuse to let the mad March deadline for Article 50 go by.
It remains utterly astonishing that so many people, including many hardline Tory MPs, suppose we could disentangle and then create our own legal and economic systems so quickly. That's more than 10 years work, never mind 2.

Meanwhile, as the pound plummets, I see crisps and fishfingers are about to rise in price, so that's national diet gone.

 

[Netserk]

Re:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/06/labour-will-not-block-article-50-jeremy-corbyn-allies-confirm

This is shocking behaviour, confirming that May is an awful PM; she does anything that the Daily Mail tells her to do in order to keep the saviour-like figure that they show. We cannot have a PM so pander to these people rather than do what is best for the country. These newsppaers are a danger to British democracy, intent on turning the country into an oligarchy controlled by themselves. And it looks like they're going to do quite well at it.

Wait, so pointing out that media have free-speech is confirming that she is an awful PM? Sorry, but we are talking about the same quote, no?

“I believe in and value the independence of our judiciary. I also value the freedom of our press,” she told reporters. “These both underpin our democracy.”

Surely, the more criticizable thing in the article is Labour's position. Are they going to roll over and do whatever May wants them to regarding the activation of article 50, or will they actually require to have a say for them to vote for the activation? They could be a bit more offensive and clearly lay out their position, perhaps even backing it up with arguments.

 

[Brullnux]

The media compleltely disregarded Britain's legal system. That is to be condemned. The PM's job is to uphold these institutions, not defend articles like 'Enemies of the People'. The press has free speech, but the PM has to criticise it when necessary. Otherwise their arrogance increases and they break the law, like they've done previously.

 

[mjreck]

Does anyone else get the feeling this is the tabloids fight-back/revenge for leveson?

 

[gooner]

May shouldn't challenge it to the European Courts. Put it straight to parliament and dare people to vote against the public's wishes.

This will still pass.

 

[Jagartrott]

Re:

dare people to vote against the public's wishes.

What are "the public's" wishes?
More money for the IRS once out of the EU? Hah!

 

[gooner]

Re: Re:

dare people to vote against the public's wishes.

What are "the public's" wishes?
More money for the IRS once out of the EU? Hah!

Eh, leave the EU. That's what they voted for and it was presented to the people that their vote was binding and they voted with that in mind. The court may have put this on parliament, yet it's only fair they ratify it on the part of the public.

The bus slogan was ridiculous and the more money for the NHS. I would be more remain in the EU, although I wouldn't be their biggest fan but then again, some of the stereotyping from the remain side of the brexit campaign was wrong too. Such a tolerant bunch they are, they said the older vote shouldn't count.

Trying to void referendums when you disagree with the result, lets see how that goes down.

 

[Jagartrott]

My point is that many people didn't know for what exactly they voted, yet it was the single most important vote in their lives. If the result is then 48-52%, then the "wishes of the public" are not exactly clear-cut.

Edit: And NHS, of course, thanks. Don't know where the IRS came from.

 

[Brullnux]

Parliament will of course vote for Brexit. But it's what happens after that is more interesting.

 

[TMP402]

Re:

My point is that many people didn't know for what exactly they voted, yet it was the single most important vote in their lives. If the result is then 48-52%, then the "wishes of the public" are not exactly clear-cut.

Edit: And NHS, of course, thanks. Don't know where the IRS came from.

The same is true of almost any vote ever, though.

 

[Brullnux]

The tories are coming closer and closer to becoming ukip, who in turn have completely lost themselves; there is still no sign of a coherent plan on Brexit; and our opposition is still non existent. Looking good for the UK.

Oh, and boris has turned all of Europe even further against the UK

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

The tories are coming closer and closer to becoming ukip, who in turn have completely lost themselves; there is still no sign of a coherent plan on Brexit; and our opposition is still non existent. Looking good for the UK.

Oh, and boris has turned all of Europe even further against the UK

If the far right parties do end up winning in Austria, France and the Netherlands, perhaps they'll find partners in the UK?

Nation-states again?

 

[Brullnux]

Well they lost in Austria, which is a start

Great news on the British front too: May has elaborated from Brexit means Brexit and we know now that Brexit means Brexit means we are getting a Red, White and Blue Brexit, but it is beggar's belief why we are trying to get the French involved in this. We need to ask the serious questions here though, to gather more about the Brexit plan. What shade red, white and blue? Because aqua blue and navy blue are very different, we need more information.

 

[Jagartrott]

This is like a Yes Minister episode with everyone on the latest experimental drug.

I found this interesting as well:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/06/twenty-reasons-brexit-trickier-than-we-thought

 

[Brullnux]

Re:

This is like a Yes Minister episode with everyone on the latest experimental drug.

I found this interesting as well:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/06/twenty-reasons-brexit-trickier-than-we-thought

Yeah very interesting, it is a nice list. The legal complexities of Brexit far exceed what most important Brexiteers think, which is a small problem

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

This is like a Yes Minister episode with everyone on the latest experimental drug.

I found this interesting as well:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/06/twenty-reasons-brexit-trickier-than-we-thought

The UK doesn't have its own medicines regulatory body? I mean, I actually know people on MHRA sub-committees... but maybe I just made them up in my head!!

 

[Jagartrott]

So the Red Cross has declared an emergency in British hospitals.
Some of them are so overwelmed and understaffed - especially around the Christmas holidays - that people die from having to wait too long for treatment.

The Conservatives must be so proud.

 

[Brullnux]

Re:

So the Red Cross has declared an emergency in British hospitals.
Some of them are so overwelmed and understaffed - especially around the Christmas holidays - that people die from having to wait too long for treatment.

The Conservatives must be so proud.

It isn't an emergency. Theresa May said so. She never lies.

Over Christmas, over 6000 households, including 3000 families, were housedin B&B's. There they have no privacy at all, and in many have to share even a toilet. 1300 of them have stayed there for over 6 weeks, the theoretical limit that they are allowed to stay there before they are moved to better accommodation. An increase of 1200 in five years. It's a time of austerity, the tories have claimed for the last 6 years, so we have to make cutbacks and save money. This administration, while feigning to be different, is the same. Interestingly, it costed more to keep this level of homelessness up for 5 years (£3.5 billion) than the affordable housing program of 2011-2015 (£1.8 billion). So what can we deduce from this? The Tories just don't care.

Another great statistic refers to the postal offices strikes. The strikers caused the closure of an estimated 50 offices, and "held the people in contempt" according the esteemed authoritarian Theresa May. The cause for these strikes was a government plan to close 76 offices. This, of course, is not holding the people in contempt.

The hypocrisy of this government is worse than most its predecessors, but nobody properly holds it to account. Or at least, it isn't reported if they do. My problem is that Corbyn is too weak, not emotive or passionate enough to really engage the nation and focus them on these hypocrisies.

Edit: factchecked myself

 

[Jagartrott]

Brexit will fix it.
Except of course that more and more hospital personnel, uncluding doctors and surgeons, has to be imported from abroad as British students no longer see it as an attractive profession (also because of the huge student loans required). I fear for Britain that the Brexit will require so much energy and focus, that other issues just get snowed under.

 

[Jagartrott]

Summary:
"We want to have our cake and eat it. Or else..."

 

[Brullnux]

Re:

Summary:
"We want to have our cake and eat it. Or else..."

At least we know a bit more as to what is going on. We know that the UK will not be in the single market, and May has admitted that we can't be in the single market and have restrictions on immigration.

The new deal could include the freedom for the City of London to provide financial services across national borders, since it “makes no sense to start again from scratch”.

Good luck with getting that past Frankfurt. This is their chance.

May was also unclear with the Customs Union, wanting both tarriff-free access to the EU and ability to negotiate crappy trade deals with other nations. It will probably have to come down to one or the other; politically speaking, the latter is more preferable to the Leave voters, but economically speaking the former is more important.

May stressed Parliament (MPs and Peers) will be allowed to vote on the deal, although the appeal at the time of writing has not yet been withdrawn. Interestingly, May refused the idea of an interim, transitional deal as it was "Political purgatory". So if the UK is offered a "bad deal", May will refuse and go back to WTO rules, and the UK will become a tax haven. I am not an expert on economics, micro or macro, but I am pretty sure most tax havens have corporate tax rates of 0-12.5% (all of the small island ones are at 0%, and Ireland is at 12.5%, and there are many others which aren't reknowned in between, like Bulgaria and Montenegro - Luxembourg is almost 30% so I imagine there are some fairly open loopholes there). Being at 20% right now, that represents a decrease of over 40% before we are as competitive as our next door neighbours, and even down to 15% is a decrease of a quarter. That means to make up the deficit created we need to find 1/3 more businesses housed in the UK. I am not at all sure that a move to become a tax haven would in any way benefit the UK, as has there even been a tax haven as big as 65 million people? All are less than 15, most less than 1 million. Either that or we can create really lax regulations on everything.

 

[Jagartrott]

Britain will never get a goldilocks deal. The EU will make sure that other countries thinking of leaving will not be persuaded. That means they won't be allowing Britain to have the benefits without the costs. The EU is also a *much* stronger economic block, so for May to make (not-so-)veiled threats is... optimistic.

 

[Brullnux]

Re:

Britain will never get a goldilocks deal. The EU will make sure that other countries thinking of leaving will not be persuaded. That means they won't be allowing Britain to have the benefits without the costs. The EU is also a *much* stronger economic block, so for May to make (not-so-)veiled threats is... optimistic.

My thoughts too. May speaks of how a bad deal would be 'self harm for the EU' (no irony there at all) but it would be much more serious self harm to allow the UK what they want. Le Pen has already distanced herself from leaving the EU immediately, and I suspect the EU will want to keep it going in that direction.

 

[Brullnux]

Apparently, there was a misfired Trident missile during a test, a few weeks before the vote on renewing it and, surprise surprise, No 10 and the MoD tried to cover it up and hide it. They succeeded, and the renewal passed by 355 votes.

However, now it has come out and some people think there may be something slightly corrupt and misleading in keeping this a secret. Theresa May, in a hilarious interview with Marr, refused to answer whether she knew about this (the vote was only a few days into her premiership) four times, talking over the top of Marr with a prepared speech written by her PR people consisting mainly of random buzzwords. A transparent and honest PM if I ever saw one.

 

[Jagartrott]

It's an important deterent to any nation because you can kill millions with those warheads, random millions, that is