British politics

[ferryman]

Re:

Labour manifesto leaked, albeit without costings. Disappointed they didn't have the balls to drop Trident (which would by itself pay for most of their pledges). In fact, the more I think about the more I realise Trident is an enormous waste of money. The main argument for it is "we'll get attacked if we don't have it", which perfectly explains why Germany has been the subject of multiple nuclear attacks over the past decade. Anyway, it isn't overly radical but is still the most leftwing one since 1983, but it's more what Ed Miliband wanted to write rather than straight from the Foot 'suicide note'. Even Polly Toynbee, Corbyn critic and SDP supporter, likes it. It's probably the most transformational and forward thinking one since Thatcher 1979 too (forward thinking as in looking at how to shape the long term future), or even Attlee '45.

My main worry is costings, though. Increasing corporation tax on multinationals will raise a lot of money, but compounded with Brexit might make a couple of companies leave. However, that's only the case if we also leave the single market, which Labour have expressed interest in staying in. The income tax increases will raise next to nothing in all probability if they are as moderate as McDonnell was trying to convince people they were. So yeah, a decent enough manifesto which is very comprehensive as well. I'll be surprised if the Tories don't release 70 pages of waffle as their's.

Other people's thoughts?

I like it a lot. Lots of SNP policies in there Agree with the policy on rail, energy, education fees, health, care, pensions, worker's rights, housing, welfare and democracy. Totally, totally disagree with renewing Trident. A bit soft on taxation as well. I think they are going to release their costing of this next week.

 

[aphronesis]

Re: Re:

I'm expecting Scotland will break away within the decade. It'll be interesting to see how that affects Scottish politics in terms of representation and political parties in an independent Scotland.

It will happen in the next 2/3 years or not, literally for a generation this time. The GE results will give an indication. As an SNP activist and realist, I'm afraid to say it will not happen. That being the case, I really really just want to see Labour get their act together in England which will have a knock on effect in Scotland and Wales. We can all dream I guess

I'd say odds are rather higher for that than Dems in the US reforming.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Only semi-socialist?!?!? Lets seize the means of production comrades!!

The semi was a concession KB. If you had lived in Scotland during the Thatcher years it would be 1000%, but times have'd moved on so, yes, semi is just about right for most Scots.

I come from a Yorkshire mining family, easy to see where my political views were founded

Wow Yorkshire the home of the Major Tour.

Cycling's new greatest race in God's own County

 

[King Boonen]

Not sure why anyone would worry about costings, renationalising things does very little to the budget deficit, especially considering subsidies already being paid. It's more about whether the state can effectively run the industries and provide benefit. I think mail has flown the coup and should be left but power and rail absolutely should come back under state control.

 

[aphronesis]

Re: Re:

Only semi-socialist?!?!? Lets seize the means of production comrades!!

The semi was a concession KB. If you had lived in Scotland during the Thatcher years it would be 1000%, but times have'd moved on so, yes, semi is just about right for most Scots.

I come from a Yorkshire mining family, easy to see where my political views were founded

Wow Yorkshire the home of the Major Tour.

Cycling's new greatest race in God's own County

I believe you're confused about "God's country", it's the one with big empty space.

 

[King Boonen]

County, not country.

 

[aphronesis]

Scanning quickly. I guess you can have that then.

 

[King Boonen]

It's a UK in-joke, either said with pride by people from Yorkshire or said with derision and snide by people from elsewhere

 

[aphronesis]

I got that. Same as the States depending on one's level of cynicism.

 

[Jagartrott]

I think the strategy by Corbyn is very good: offer a very clear alternative and a clear break from the new-Labour time. Gloves off, go for broke.

 

[Brullnux]

Re:

Not sure why anyone would worry about costings, renationalising things does very little to the budget deficit, especially considering subsidies already being paid. It's more about whether the state can effectively run the industries and provide benefit. I think mail has flown the coup and should be left but power and rail absolutely should come back under state control.

The costing problem isn't with renationalisation but the other spending pledges which go up to between 60-95 billion depending who you ask (IFS said 60 (I think) and Daily Mail said 95 - basically it's 60). I agree with all of the spending pledges and think they are both good and necessary, however there is a problem with where the money will come from.

I agree with the neoliberal consensus (but also Keynesian) that in the modern world it is necessary to have a 3% deficit or less so that investors aren't scared off. That's probably the main reason why it isn't a good idea to have a larger one. Labour have committed to a surplus, and I will wait to see their actual manifesto to see how it's achievable.

Corbyn's policy on energy could be very good. It isn't total nationalisation, but allows smaller regional companies to keep the private ones in check. A centrally planned energy company wouldn't be successful and hasn't been successful in the past due to the UK's apparent inadequacy at running anything, so much so that even now when everything is privatised, it's usually foreign comapnies running them. Trains and mail makes perfect sense.

Labour's main problem now is convincing the electorate Corbyn will make a good PM. And it's a big problem.

 

[mcduff]

Re:

I think the strategy by Corbyn is very good: offer a very clear alternative and a clear break from the new-Labour time. Gloves off, go for broke.

I think you are correct. Its about offering a clear alternative to the central ground, but it isn't the Conservatives that Labour are hoping to beat its the Liberal Democrats. Labour will be delighted with anything that isn't total oblivion.

 

[King Boonen]

After the hammering Diane Abbott (Shadow Home secretary) took across all media about not knowing her figures it's refreshing to see Philip Hammond (Actual Chancellor of the Exchequer) getting the exact same hammering in the media for not knowing his figures and his hypocrisy of accusing labour of not doing something in their manifesto budget which he himself didn't do in his own budget.


Oh wait...

 

[Brullnux]

Nice to see May get the same hammering for forgetting that the sterling crashed the day after the referendum, not before. Also nice to see the tories put out a fully costed, detailed manifesto with many important policies that might make a difference.

Oh wait...

 

[King Boonen]

No Levenson 2 and no Section 40... Purely a coincidence...

 

[Brullnux]

Yeah not because this way May tightens her grip on all of the media and she can truly become the Supreme Leader with personal propaganda machines being sold to 5 million people daily as 'news'.

"You control the media, you control the people. You control the people, you can kill all of the foxes"- Chairman May, 2025

 

[Brullnux]

I read through the manifesto. Well, skimmed it as I don't have the will to read through 88 pages of meaningless words and phrases

It is a lot of nothing. Everything lacks a lot of substance and detail. Clever from May. She knows the mail and sun will provide their adulation with fawning attention whatever happens and she'll win the election. May as well get elected on a carte blanche, live up to the four promises you've made and for the rest do whatever it is you want.

 

[ferryman]

Re:

I read through the manifesto. Well, skimmed it as I don't have the will to read through 88 pages of meaningless words and phrases

It is a lot of nothing. Everything lacks a lot of substance and detail. Clever from May. She knows the mail and sun will provide their adulation with fawning attention whatever happens and she'll win the election. May as well get elected on a carte blanche, live up to the four promises you've made and for the rest do whatever it is you wan t.

The 'death tax' is an absolute disgrace. Die early in your old age if you want pass anything onto your family Having to produce ID to vote is simply an attempt to remove labour votes (I think voting fraud was something like 0.000025%!). I could go on and on but I'll just leave it with a couple of wee digs (relatively small but all you need to know about May and the Tories and HER PALS), fox hunting, ivory trading.

 

[Dan2016]

Re:

I read through the manifesto. Well, skimmed it as I don't have the will to read through 88 pages of meaningless words and phrases

It is a lot of nothing. Everything lacks a lot of substance and detail. Clever from May. She knows the mail and sun will provide their adulation with fawning attention whatever happens and she'll win the election. May as well get elected on a carte blanche, live up to the four promises you've made and for the rest do whatever it is you want.

Fair play for even skim-reading a Tory manifesto, that's dedication to being informed. I think I'd shoot myself in the head if I did that.

I'm waiting for them to get elected and go crazy with the Henry VIII powers, May to exercise all her wildest dictatorial desires.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/01/great-repeal-bill-henry-viii-britain-eu-government

 

[Jagartrott]

Tories in full panic and self-destruction mode. I wonder if their call for early election will be among the biggest backfiring events in history (I hope so).

 

[Brullnux]

Re:

Tories in full panic and self-destruction mode. I wonder if their call for early election will be among the biggest backfiring events in history (I hope so).

It's brilliant. They are doing their upmost best to lose this election. Even daily mail readers are beginning to turn against them. Even just losing 6 seats to Labour would mean a hung parliament, already backfiring hugely. I still very much doubt it will happen, but Corbyn is a natural campaigner - this is the one thing he is good at. If the momentum doesn't change (which it probably will as brits are notoriously fickle), then Labour could snatch a few seats off the tories. Liberals will too, especially the likes of Twickenham and Bath.

 

[Robert5091]

Thoughts go out to those injured and killed in Manchester last night. Let's hope UK politicians don't exploit this tragedy for their own ends.

 

[python]

the isis took the responsibility according to debkafile...

 

[Brullnux]

The party’s deputy chair and manifesto lead, Suzanne Evans, said Ukip’s previously announced plan to permit only zero net migration would now include a “social attitudes” test, in which people found to have discriminatory attitudes towards women or gay people would not be allowed in.

I'm guessing half of the ukip members are getting kicked out of the country as well then.

 

[ferryman]

SNP GE manifesto, scheduled for Tuesday in Edinburgh this week, was quite rightly postponed after what happened in Manchester. Now scheduled for next Tuesday in Perth. Will probably head up for it, only a 30 minute drive.