That, together with Salzwedel introducing Cervelo makes motors a plausibility. Loughborough has all the means to produce the most sophisticated. For BC track my guess is we're looking at downtube (2008) and rimmotors (2012 and beyond).
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You would think that the track team that patented "marginal gains" would be able to glue on a tubular correctly...
Edit: on second glance, that looks like the rim has pulled away from the rest of the wheel.
Edit: on second glance, that looks like the rim has pulled away from the rest of the wheel.
Interesting about motors as this was one of the theories floating around the place (Rio velodrome) when they were smashing all their PBs as well as the opposition. But surely the UCI checked for them in Rio?
Tub is still glued to the rim, the wheel glue failed. It was the French getting their own back via Mavic after Brailsford saying BC were using extra round wheels and why they won lol!
Any word on how the UKAD investigation is going or is it going to linger on for months on end?
Sapstead is going before the commons select committee on Feb 22nd.
One hopes it will be wrapped up by then.
One hopes it will be wrapped up by then.
Re: Re:
Unfortunately it is not so simple.
Amateurs dope, and a lot of them at that. The reasons have more to do with self esteem and achievement that financial rewards.
To get to the top in any sport takes a huge internal belief and a dedication to something that is inconceivable to most people.
The idea that you would do so much and then throw it all away because of a small improvement or a small change to get up to the rest of the field as you try to make it from the good group to the Olympic group.
These people have already justified so many sacrifices and friends and relatives to get to where they are. It is really no small amount of extra justification to go over the line to doping.
Especially when "Everyone is doing it" and you know many are making huge living out of it that you will never compete with unless you do.
So it is not all about the money there are many other factors at play in the psychology of a top athlete.
Some to do with self esteem
some to do with trying to rationalise all the sacrifice that has gone before.
some to do with money.
Craigee said:
Unfortunately it is not so simple.
Amateurs dope, and a lot of them at that. The reasons have more to do with self esteem and achievement that financial rewards.
To get to the top in any sport takes a huge internal belief and a dedication to something that is inconceivable to most people.
The idea that you would do so much and then throw it all away because of a small improvement or a small change to get up to the rest of the field as you try to make it from the good group to the Olympic group.
These people have already justified so many sacrifices and friends and relatives to get to where they are. It is really no small amount of extra justification to go over the line to doping.
Especially when "Everyone is doing it" and you know many are making huge living out of it that you will never compete with unless you do.
So it is not all about the money there are many other factors at play in the psychology of a top athlete.
Some to do with self esteem
some to do with trying to rationalise all the sacrifice that has gone before.
some to do with money.
He's only a masters rider and it's only old school steroids, but any doping cases now, with the spotlight on BC, well that's just embarrassing
http://uci.ch/mm/Document/News/CleanSport/17/63/88/20170220ProvisionalSuspensionEN_English.pdf
http://uci.ch/mm/Document/News/CleanSport/17/63/88/20170220ProvisionalSuspensionEN_English.pdf
Re:
I didn't get to that bit, what was said? I'm assuming BC we're selling on drugs to Sky? Were there records of that? Or were they lost/never created as well?Benotti69 said:
Re: Re:
No, this is the magnificence of Brailsfords plan. He got BC (i.e. the British tax payer), to buy the drugs, & pay for the Doctor, & even pay the dumb ba$tard acting as drugs mule. But all the time there were no records of who the drugs were dispensed to.
So we don't know if they were used by BC Cyclists, of Sky Cyclists, because Dave used Freeman as a cutout, & probably the only records were on the missing laptop. If Freeman was smart, he would have kept his own records, because he would have know exactly the kind of *** Brailsford is, & he'd have seen the possibility that this day would arrive, & made his own arrangements.
Given his pitiful excuses today, I'm guessing he's not so smart
King Boonen said:
No, this is the magnificence of Brailsfords plan. He got BC (i.e. the British tax payer), to buy the drugs, & pay for the Doctor, & even pay the dumb ba$tard acting as drugs mule. But all the time there were no records of who the drugs were dispensed to.
So we don't know if they were used by BC Cyclists, of Sky Cyclists, because Dave used Freeman as a cutout, & probably the only records were on the missing laptop. If Freeman was smart, he would have kept his own records, because he would have know exactly the kind of *** Brailsford is, & he'd have seen the possibility that this day would arrive, & made his own arrangements.
Given his pitiful excuses today, I'm guessing he's not so smart
If all the drugs were bought by BC and then bought/used by Sky that could become a very big issue. If you act as a drug wholesaler you are not only required to get a license but you also need to keep very specific records.
I'm going to try and finish listening to Sapstead tomorrow. What I saw of Cope he just came across as the kind of person I wouldn't trust to open a tin of beans.
I'm going to try and finish listening to Sapstead tomorrow. What I saw of Cope he just came across as the kind of person I wouldn't trust to open a tin of beans.
But all the time there were no records of who the drugs were dispensed to.
So we don't know if they were used by BC Cyclists, of Sky Cyclists, because Dave used Freeman as a cutout, & probably the only records were on the missing laptop.
so if there are no records of drugs and their users, how can they be accused of using which drugs? (what I ask is how could a court a jury a commission act against Sky?)
So we don't know if they were used by BC Cyclists, of Sky Cyclists, because Dave used Freeman as a cutout, & probably the only records were on the missing laptop.
so if there are no records of drugs and their users, how can they be accused of using which drugs? (what I ask is how could a court a jury a commission act against Sky?)
Damian Collins indicated on Off The Ball radio this evening that Freeman will be called to give evidence after they receive a written reply to questions raised from today's events. That hearing will be worth watching and this slow drip drip of information is enabling the public, journalists and committee more time to get the correct line of question. It has been a PR disaster for sky, but when you are covering up the truth then this was always likely to happen.
What I don't understand, is the reluctance to call up Wiggins himself who has had everyone else take the flak for him to date. Maybe this card is being held for when yet more damning information becomes available as the MPs are probably reluctant to go after the only name who has any public affection in this whole story.
With Sapstead, it is very easy to see how Brailsford would rule the roost over her. She seemed reluctant and almost apologetic at times and but for the investigation, I'm certain nothing would ever have come to light.
What I don't understand, is the reluctance to call up Wiggins himself who has had everyone else take the flak for him to date. Maybe this card is being held for when yet more damning information becomes available as the MPs are probably reluctant to go after the only name who has any public affection in this whole story.
With Sapstead, it is very easy to see how Brailsford would rule the roost over her. She seemed reluctant and almost apologetic at times and but for the investigation, I'm certain nothing would ever have come to light.
pastronef said:
Short answer; they can't. Long answer, whoever administered the drugs would want to be really sure that they aren't going to be left in the position where their professional license to practice is at risk, because there are a bunch of drugs they've ordered, of which there is no record of them ever being administered. Because that will look really bad for them, super bad !
For a Doctor to have no records of what drugs they administered, is just as bad as administering drugs that weren't medically justified. So they'd be just as screwed one way as the other.
If someone were in that position, they might want to consider if, 'throwing themselves on the mercy of the court', is their best option, & screw the dirtbags who left them to carry the can for just following orders.
thehog
BANNED
pastronef said:
Lol! :lol:
Apply this thinking to criminal drug proceedings;
Judge/Jury: "Mr. Crack Dealer, as you didn't keep records of your sales and Mr. Crack User, there is no records for you, you both can go free, have a good day".
Spot on!keeponrollin said:
How's it going to look in this scenario:
"So Dr Freeman, you are alleged to have been practising medicine for Team Sky for a period of several years, who claim that you provided a number of prescription only drugs, but you claim to have no records of patients, diagnoses or medications prescribed?"
Ouch, that's going to end well every time...
42x16ss said:
Can anyone remind me (cos I'm too tired to search for it), who was the doc who applied for and administered Brad's TUE's?
42x16ss said:
this is the only way a doctor can operate on a full-service cycling operation.
If you have the blood-work and urine assay tests, or a gas chromatography mass spectrometer urine result, it is simple for an experienced person in this field, to work out if this is NOT NORMAL. Control sample is all the thousands of other examples they have seen.
The doctor can only work with a shield of plausible deniability. (I jokingly refer to it as implausible undeniability[sic] )
It is a Damocles sword, so when he is found out, inevitably those at the pinnacle will take the proportion and toughest scrutiny, i) he only has his implausible undeniability[sic] and ii) he may have a semblance of cover, whilst also being thrown under the bus, but those above him, as scapegoat. so those above him will seek to at once, protect, whilst also being expedient, and get him to take the proportion of the blame. We call this the bad apples maxim. There are a few bad apples. This will apply to professional equivalents and those in the respectable professional and guilds with the hippocratic oaths like medicine. He will not be prosecuted or taken before any medical guild and have a hearing to see his medical practising licence revoked. wont happen. like no banker took any heat or prosecuted by the SEC for the banking crisis. This is not how those institutions operate.
A doctor cannot keep records of something that will be self-incriminating and incriminate the team. It is a paradox.
So we should stop seeking such professional ethichs, and recalibrate the lens and realise this is a different sphere of operation. You must seek to see the indirect and circumstantial pieces of evidence, of which the greatest one is a polymath's view on the history and behaviour in the sport. If you seek to hold the doctor of a sporting team to the same context and professional expectation of the local GP or specialist doctor working in the private sector, well then... in the words of Jan Ullrich, I can't help you. You have the assessment incorrectly calibrated from the start, and no chance you can ever find the most accurate analysis at the final stage.
At least two ways are possible and even plausible.pastronef said:
1. BC having to answer for the missing drugs, managers pointing their finger to SKY,
2. Freeman getting the squeeze and starting to squeal
Way to solve #2 is giving Freeman a golden parachute if he takes the fall, which considering his ruined career is not unlikely. It's not as if being a bell-ringer is worth it, most of the time it only makes you a pariah.
Benotti69 said:
Freeman may have administered it, but the athlete applies for it. Freeman's name doesn't appear on any of the TUEs released by Fancy Bears, Mr Hargreaves, an ENT consultant is the only other name on the documents. The comments obviously weren't written by Wiggins as they talk about carrying out the treatment, so that could very well be Freeman, but we can't be sure.
Remember Fancy Bears only released the final TUE document. There's a stack of paperwork, online forms and various other stuff associated with each TUE both electronically and physically held with WADA and on ADAMS
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