Brits don't dope?

[BullsFan22]

Spot on. Those three gold medals for British athletes in the Commonwealth Games were pretty damn impressive, one of which came in the pole vault with a height of 5.55 which would have not qualified for a World or Olympic final. Some promising British talent coming through in the men's and women's sprints but, so far, nobody who can get remotely competitive with the Jamaicans. Gutsy performance from Pavey to beat one of the worst championship fields in living memory. Of the British performances so far in Zurich, none have been world class (Farah was well below his best). As for Britain dominating the shot put, javelin and pole vault, I'd like to ask if there is something in your water?

1st and 2nd in the Men's 400m final today...

 

[Parker]

I don't know what the Brits have done over the last few years with their T&F teams, but they are definitely world beaters nowadays. Whether it's 'marginal gains' or just getting funding and getting serious since London was announced as host city for the 2012 games or all of the above, they've been everywhere. Jo Pavey, at 40 (almost 41), wins the women's 10000m at the Euro's today in Zurich. That's pretty darn impressive. Mo Farah keeps crushing people left and right in the men's 5000m and 10000m races as well. The sprinters/hurdlers are improving and getting close to the top step on the podium. It's just a matter of time before they start dominating the shot put, javelin, pole vault, etc. Either they have built a well oiled machine with great programs, great coaches and great funding+motivated and talented athletes and everyone gets inspired, OR something is in the water over there...

Britain just has more black people than other European countries. Look at track on the global stage and you won't see many white medalists. At the field events, which aren't dominated by black athletes, Britain are less successful. I just watched the women's 1500m. The Netherlands won because their Ethiopian was better than Sweden's Ethiopian.

(And before you point out that not all GB's Medallists are black - they also have one of biggest populations so you expect them to turn up some white athletes too)

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

1st and 2nd in the Men's 400m final today...

No Brits at all in the finals of the 800 or 400 hurdles. Pretty poor effort considering the massive state sponsored doping programme in the UK.

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

Britain just has more black people than other European countries. Look at track on the global stage and you won't see many white medalists. At the field events, which aren't dominated by black athletes, Britain are less successful. I just watched the women's 1500m. The Netherlands won because their Ethiopian was better than Sweden's Ethiopian.

(And before you point out that not all GB's Medallists are black - they also have one of biggest populations so you expect them to turn up some white athletes too)

I think it's possible that a lot of white Europeans think they have no chance of competing with Jamaicans in sprints and East Africans in distance races so less and less are taking athletics seriously. This would explain partly why the standard in track races at these championships has been so poor. The star of the championships, Dafne Schippers, seems to have discovered that she is a world class sprinter by mistake after previously dedicating her career to the heptathlon. British athletes have lottery funding to fall back on so there is more incentive for them to continue pursuing a career in athletics which there may not be in other countries. The field events in Europe seem much stronger as athletes do not feel they are at a genetic disadvantage. In these more competitive events, Britain are absolute crap at everything bar the long jump.

That said, Farah and Ohurugo are dodgy as anything.

 

[wansteadimp]

No Brits at all in the finals of the 800 or 400 hurdles. Pretty poor effort considering the massive state sponsored doping programme in the UK.

Rhys Williams would have sorted this out, if he wasn't suspended pending the hearing for his doping violation!

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

Rhys Williams would have sorted this out, if he wasn't suspended pending the hearing for his doping violation!

Rhys Williams is a great role model, proof that doping doesn't work.

 

[Parker]

I think it's possible that a lot of white Europeans think they have no chance of competing with Jamaicans in sprints and East Africans in distance races so less and less are taking athletics seriously. This would explain partly why the standard in track races at these championships has been so poor. The star of the championships, Dafne Schippers, seems to have discovered that she is a world class sprinter by mistake after previously dedicating her career to the heptathlon. British athletes have lottery funding to fall back on so there is more incentive for them to continue pursuing a career in athletics which there may not be in other countries. The field events in Europe seem much stronger as athletes do not feel they are at a genetic disadvantage. In these more competitive events, Britain are absolute crap at everything bar the long jump.

Yeah, you may very well be right. I've joked in the past that triathlon was probably invented by distance runners fed up of being beaten by Africans.
There's also a wider menu of sports on offer in Europe - particularly the ever strong pull of football. How many failed footballers just give up sport altogether instead giving another one a go like Adam Gemili (or indeed Greg van Avermaet)?

With regard to GB and track and field at European level, they
1. have one of the largest populations
2. have a strong heritage in the sport
3. are more racial diverse than most nations
4. have lottery funding.

The questions should be why they aren't successful more consisently. (The answer is usually 'committees').

 

[SundayRider]

Yeah, you may very well be right. I've joked in the past that triathlon was probably invented by distance runners fed up of being beaten by Africans.
There's also a wider menu of sports on offer in Europe - particularly the ever strong pull of football. How many failed footballers just give up sport altogether instead giving another one a go like Adam Gemili (or indeed Greg van Avermaet)?

With regard to GB and track and field at European level, they
1. have one of the largest populations
2. have a strong heritage in the sport
3. are more racial diverse than most nations
4. have lottery funding.

The questions should be why they aren't successful more consisently. (The answer is usually 'committees').

I agree with a lot of this, athletics is popular in the UK, sports participated in are diverse in the UK compared to lots of other European countries.

 

[the sceptic]

I agree with a lot of this, athletics is popular in the UK, sports participated in are diverse in the UK compared to lots of other European countries.

sounds plausible and explains how the doped brits are beating the other dopers.

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

sounds plausible and explains how the doped brits are beating the other dopers.

I don't understand why you bother with the clinic? If you think that ever participant in every sport is doping then surely there is nothing for you to discuss?

 

[BullsFan22]

No Brits at all in the finals of the 800 or 400 hurdles. Pretty poor effort considering the massive state sponsored doping programme in the UK.

I don't know if you are being sarcastic, but I am certainly not insinuating anything. Yes, I realize I am in the Clinic section of the Forum.

 

[Gavandope]

Britain just has more black people than other European countries. Look at track on the global stage and you won't see many white medalists. At the field events, which aren't dominated by black athletes, Britain are less successful. I just watched the women's 1500m. The Netherlands won because their Ethiopian was better than Sweden's Ethiopian.

(And before you point out that not all GB's Medallists are black - they also have one of biggest populations so you expect them to turn up some white athletes too)

I would not say black - but mixed race for these power events from the West Indians who came here post ww2. I grew up with many here, they always were more athletic but they had a better far diet than us Caucasians. For example the staple West Indian rice and peas that usually accompanies meat or fish actually forms a complete protein with the two ingredients, whereas we had rubbish like chips, sausages, fried breakfasts, roast dinners and stodge! Not any more though thankfully, we have truly the tastes of our old empire nowadays.

The other legacy of empire is immigrants from Kenya then Somalia which brings mo farah into the mix! Genetics means that East African Homo sapiens by living at altitude have evolution on their side, never mind just Edgar and blood...

 

[Parker]

I would not say black - but mixed race for these power events from the West Indians who came here post ww2. I grew up with many here, they always were more athletic but they had a better far diet than us Caucasians. For example the staple West Indian rice and peas that usually accompanies meat or fish actually forms a complete protein with the two ingredients, whereas we had rubbish like chips, sausages, fried breakfasts, roast dinners and stodge! Not any more though thankfully, we have truly the tastes of our old empire nowadays.

The other legacy of empire is immigrants from Kenya then Somalia which brings mo farah into the mix! Genetics means that East African Homo sapiens by living at altitude have evolution on their side, never mind just Edgar and blood...

Sure mixed race. I wanted to simplify it.

I'm not necessarily sure that diet is the reason though - black sprinters have prevailed globally from before the time of processed food. I don't image white athletes spend much time in Burger King.

It's clearly genetic.

On the immigrant issue, there have been far fewer from East Africa than the Caribbean, so the impact there is less.

Some stats though about GB at the European championships. From 1990 to today 63 people have won an individual medal for GB.

Of those 56% were black or mixed race. And of those 76% were in 'sprint' races (400m or shorter including hurdles).

So far in this Euros, 54% of GBs medals have been from black/mixed race athletes in sprint races.

Also only 27% were women (not sure what that tells us).

For years Britain ruled the roost at distance running - from Bannister through to Cram. Those days are gone without someone with East African genetics.

 

[Gavandope]

Sure mixed race. I wanted to simplify it.

I'm not necessarily sure that diet is the reason though - black sprinters have prevailed globally from before the time of processed food. It's clearly genetic.

On the immigrant issue, there have been far fewer from East Africa than the Caribbean, so the impact there is less.

Some stats though about GB at the European championships. From 1990 to today 63 people have won an individual medal for GB.

Of those 56% were black or mixed race. And of those 76% were in 'sprint' races (400m or shorter including hurdles).

So far in this Euros, 54% of GBs medals have been from black/mixed race athletes in sprint races.

Also only 27% were women (not sure what that tells us).

Diet certainly does help - but so does mixing the DNA too to create a Darwinian blend for power athletics.

If you want to see even more skewed statistics try looking at English footballers.

As far as endurance events goes such as 800-5000m we used to be able to compete; Coe, Ovett, Cram, Foster. then Lasse Viren's secret of transfusions who cheated Brendan Foster out of medals galore came out and changed the game. Only way we can compete is with help from Darwin now...

 

[Parker]

Diet certainly does help

Sure it does. But not every white boy is going to McDs on a regular basis.

Only way we can compete is with help from Darwin now...

Nonsense. The Empire isn't completely gone. Farah, Pietersen, Froome, Rusedski, Robson, Vunipola and others. In the 19th century we stole their land and resources. Now we're coming for their athletes. (Not really, I'm joking. Partly)

 

[Gavandope]

sounds plausible and explains how the doped brits are beating the other dopers.

I truly don't believe that most of our athletes are juiced up nowadays. Though if you'd ask that over 20 years ago you might get a different answer with certain athletes and events. I will not provide examples as I don't fancy a writ for libel through my letterbox!

Lottery funding, the elite athletes being subsidised to train full time, facilities and targeting sports which cost a lot of money, such as rowing, track cycling to name just two changed the game.

 

[Gavandope]

Sure it does. But not every white boy is going to McDs on a regular basis.

I've never seen more West Indians than Caucasians go to maccy d's. KFC the opposite lol

 

[Gavandope]

Sure it does. But not every white boy is going to McDs on a regular basis.


Nonsense. The Empire isn't completely gone. Farah, Pietersen, Froome, Rusedski, Robson, Vunipola and others. In the 19th century we stole their land and resources. Now we're coming for their athletes. (Not really, I'm joking. Partly)

I know lol. It lives on in the multicultural mix I love about this rain sodden island I live in that I wish had the latitude of Portugal and the legacy of giving the world the best organised sports. Apart from those pesky frogs with cycling

Off to watch us batter the billion strong Indians at cricket in the 5th test!

 

[Dear Wiggo]

The other legacy of empire is immigrants from Kenya then Somalia which brings mo farah into the mix! Genetics means that East African Homo sapiens by living at altitude have evolution on their side, never mind just Edgar and blood...

Think the upshot of this "evolution" only applies at altitude. Once they resume sea level, their Hgb actually decreases.

From memory, again, as I read er study summaries a lot of the time, not the full thing (unless it's free - not often), but there's a lot of myths or fables that once studied kinda dry up and die.

More than a few wealthy Kenyan doctors prepared to dope athletes for some ROI too.

 

[oldcrank]

Very nice that Dr. Steve Peters took some time off from
helping Adam Gemili win Commie 100 silver and Euro 200
gold to win his own 100, 200 and 400 titles in Brum at the
GB Masters Athletics Championships last weekend.

And to those upthread talking about javelin: Steve Backley
OBE is a former WR holder and between 1990 and 2002 won
two silvers at the Worlds, two silvers and a bronze at the
Olys, four Euro golds and three Commie Games golds. And
somewhere in there Mick Hill also won a Worlds bronze in
the javelin.

 

[simo1733]

Spot on. Those three gold medals for British athletes in the Commonwealth Games were pretty damn impressive, one of which came in the pole vault with a height of 5.55 which would have not qualified for a World or Olympic final. Some promising British talent coming through in the men's and women's sprints but, so far, nobody who can get remotely competitive with the Jamaicans. Gutsy performance from Pavey to beat one of the worst championship fields in living memory. Of the British performances so far in Zurich, none have been world class (Farah was well below his best). As for Britain dominating the shot put, javelin and pole vault, I'd like to ask if there is something in your water?

How did Gemili win a silver in the 100m without being "remotely competitive with the Jamaicans"

 

[elduggo]

I truly don't believe that most of our athletes are juiced up nowadays.

most of your athletes? or most of your successful athletes?

do you think Mo Farrah is clean?

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

How did Gemili win a silver in the 100m without being "remotely competitive with the Jamaicans"

Jamiaca sent their C team to the Commonwealths and he still couldn't win. That said, Gemili is one of the few genuine world class talents British athletics has.

 

[simo1733]

Jamiaca sent their C team to the Commonwealths and he still couldn't win. That said, Gemili is one of the few genuine world class talents British athletics has.

If he is one of the few, who are the others?

 

[Parker]

If he is one of the few, who are the others?

Mo Farah, Greg Rutherford, Jess Ennis (when available) and Tiffany Porter (who is really American). And in the next couple of years Jodie Williams and Katerina Johnson-Thompson.