Brits don't dope?

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Jun 14, 2010
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zebedee said:
Another Telegraph photo depicts, in shadow, a hurdler - Ennis's main event. I think the Telegraph is using carefully selected stock photos, rather than shots of the actual suspect. That would make it too easy.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...es-have-been-dragged-into-doping-scandal.html

There's a consensus on Radcliffe in some of the running forums but is she that big a fish right now? Christine Ohuruogo would be stale news for me; I have long assumed she is a doper and she hardly has an 'unblemished reputation'.

The "unblemished" came from the clients lawyer, so doesn't mean much.

Radcliffe is far from a big fish right now, but I don't think it is ever specified when the athlete in question was a star, merely that they were.

That said Radcliffes main success never came on the track, she had 1 big result this millenium, and one smaller one last millenium. Maybe we wouldn't have heard so much about "track and field" stars, and more from the journo about 3 runners.
 
Jul 26, 2012
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The Hitch said:
The "unblemished" came from the clients lawyer, so doesn't mean much.

Radcliffe is far from a big fish right now, but I don't think it is ever specified when the athlete in question was a star, merely that they were.

That said Radcliffes main success never came on the track, she had 1 big result this millenium, and one smaller one last millenium. Maybe we wouldn't have heard so much about "track and field" stars, and more from the journo about 3 runners.
I just hope it's a real saint that's outed - Foy, Ennis, Farah, Holmes, anyone like that would do. The bigger the name the better, frankly. Not for want of a visceral kick, but rather as a bolt to shatter the carefully fashioned illusion surrounding sport and its heroes. Athletics is drugged to the eyeballs.
 
Sep 27, 2011
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zebedee said:
I just hope it's a real saint that's outed - Foy, Ennis, Farah, Holmes, anyone like that would do. The bigger the name the better, frankly. Not for want of a visceral kick, but rather as a bolt to shatter the carefully fashioned illusion surrounding sport and its heroes. Athletics is drugged to the eyeballs.

It would take someone of that level for the UK to have its Balco moment. Anyone lower down in the food chain will only get a few coumn inches on the inside pages.
 
Mar 12, 2010
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DirtyWorks said:
Just so I understand the current status, we're talking one British medal winner and two non-medaling athletes?

Radcliffe is on the short list as the possible champion. Farah, for me, would be the other likely choice.
What's the prevailing opinion on Ennis as a 'never tested positive' winner?

Reed is on the short list as one of the other two.

Reed made her twitter private this morning. Read into that what you will.
 
Mar 12, 2010
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zebedee said:
My money's on Ennis. I think the clues lie in the Telegraph photo. That shows a female running in Adidas shoes. Farah and Radcliffe are both Nike athletes.


And Jess Ennis did what over the period of time in question? She missed the 2008 Olympics due to Injury
 
Jun 14, 2010
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TheGame said:
And Jess Ennis did what over the period of time in question? She missed the 2008 Olympics due to Injury

And in cycling people were always caught doping when they were at their strongest?

Besides Ennis came 4th in 2007 worlds.
 
Oct 16, 2012
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zebedee said:
I just hope it's a real saint that's outed - Foy, Ennis, Farah, Holmes, anyone like that would do. The bigger the name the better, frankly. Not for want of a visceral kick, but rather as a bolt to shatter the carefully fashioned illusion surrounding sport and its heroes. Athletics is drugged to the eyeballs.

Foy - who?

Holmes - retired in 2005.

Anyway I think the difficulty is in knowing the interpretation of major star.

Anyway as this is the thread where the report is discussed

http://www.letsrun.com/news/2014/12/bbc-nick-davies-letsrun-com/
 
Jul 10, 2012
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del1962 said:
Foy - who?

Holmes - retired in 2005.

Anyway I think the difficulty is in knowing the interpretation of major star.

Anyway as this is the thread where the report is discussed

http://www.letsrun.com/news/2014/12/bbc-nick-davies-letsrun-com/

His original letter to LetsRun is worthy of its own thread, it's an absolute treasure trove of falsehoods, & misinformation.

Apparently the IAAF can defy all logic, & prove a negative ?

&quot said:
Athletes with a “red flag” reading may well be guilty of doping, but equally (and we can prove it in the majority of names on this list) they may be innocent

One wonders why; if this is the case, why the athletes aren't clamoring for the innocence to be proven by the IAAF ?

Unfortunately Nick chose not to explain why the IAAF declined to follow the process of targeted testing, on these athletes, versus those they did carry out targeted testing on ?

His characterization of whistle blowers as the bad guys, is disgusting & gutless, worthy of Blatter himself ! :mad:
 
Aug 18, 2012
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Radcliffe has retweeted some of her usual bile against dopers on Twitter, Ennis remains silent.

Nothing would surprise me but Radcliffes actions suggest to me she's not the one being mentioned.
 

thehog

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Jul 27, 2009
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Briant_Gumble said:
Radcliffe has retweeted some of her usual bile against dopers on Twitter, Ennis remains silent.

Nothing would surprise me but Radcliffes actions suggest to me she's not the one being mentioned.

Not sure about Ennis. She recently took a moral stand against a much more serious issue than doping. She faced servere backlash but stood her ground. She appears a fairly well built character.
 
Jul 10, 2012
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thehog said:
Not sure about Ennis. She recently took a moral stand against a much more serious issue than doping. She faced servere backlash but stood her ground. She appears a fairly well built character.

So is Frankie Andreu, but he still doped !

I don't think you can ever simply say someone who dopes is bad; there are so many pressures in life & sometimes people are weak & make bad decisions; it doesn't make them a bad person.
 
Aug 18, 2012
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thehog said:
Not sure about Ennis. She recently took a moral stand against a much more serious issue than doping. She faced servere backlash but stood her ground. She appears a fairly well built character.

Not saying it definitely is Ennis but that case looked a no brainer to me, taking a stand against a convicted rapist.
 

thehog

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keeponrollin said:
So is Frankie Andreu, but he still doped !

I don't think you can ever simply say someone who dopes is bad; there are so many pressures in life & sometimes people are weak & make bad decisions; it doesn't make them a bad person.

I know that. I just had to get it out there. I'm fairly sure its her. That's only opinion.

The IAAF guy sounds like Cookson. A fan above is station.
 

thehog

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Briant_Gumble said:
Not saying it definitely is Ennis but that case looked a no brainer to me, taking a stand against a convicted rapist.

Yes and no. The case has caused great controversy. It wasn't a clear cut situation. The other gentleman involved was acquitted because he went back to the hotel with the women from the club. Mr. X who was found guilty returned from the nightclub to the hotel upon a text from the acquitted, which gave cause for "premeditation". The women was inedbrated and consented to gentleman one.

I tend to agree with Ennis. Her stand was he shouldn't be allowed to train with Sheffield considering his conviction. She has a stand named after her.

I suspect his appeal will overturn the original decision.
 
Jul 22, 2011
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thehog said:
Yes and no. The case has caused great controversy. It wasn't a clear cut situation. The other gentleman involved was acquitted because he went back to the hotel with the women from the club. Mr. X who was found guilty returned from the nightclub to the hotel upon a text from the acquitted, which gave cause for "premeditation". The women was inedbrated and consented to gentleman one.

I tend to agree with Ennis. Her stand was he shouldn't be allowed to train with Sheffield considering his conviction. She has a stand named after her.

I suspect his appeal will overturn the original decision.

Do you not think that is for the criminal justice system to deal with those complexities, but once someone is released after serving their sentence, they should be integrated back into society?

BTW I have no idea If Ennis is the athlete involved......but I'd like that to be resolved by the systems that manage those issues; and they should not include a kind of tabloid mob rule that can be whipped up by people who do not know what has happened, and have no authority in dealing with these issues, but like to court popularity.
 

thehog

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coinneach said:
Do you not think that is for the criminal justice system to deal with those complexities, but once someone is released after serving their sentence, they should be integrated back into society?

BTW I have no idea If Ennis is the athlete involved......but I'd like that to be resolved by the systems that manage those issues; and they should not include a kind of tabloid mob rule that can be whipped up by people who do not know what has happened, and have no authority in dealing with these issues, but like to court popularity.

Yes, I do. But it was one whereby there was no "in between". Could it be passed as "dimissed" or almost guilty.

The defandant presented an interesting and wholly explainable account. His mistake was to leave and return and to have a girlfriend.

Yes I believe he has served his time and he should be allowed to return to employment. Not to be.

Now we deal with ethics which is similar in cycling whereby we pretend we don't want dopers to return.
 
Mar 3, 2013
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coinneach said:
Do you not think that is for the criminal justice system to deal with those complexities, but once someone is released after serving their sentence, they should be integrated back into society?

BTW I have no idea If Ennis is the athlete involved......but I'd like that to be resolved by the systems that manage those issues; and they should not include a kind of tabloid mob rule that can be whipped up by people who do not know what has happened, and have no authority in dealing with these issues, but like to court popularity.

Sadly I think you hope for more than you can expect.

I have dipped into this thread lately and it was probably a mistake. Those who like to own this subject are bound to agree.
 
Jul 22, 2011
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thehog said:
Yes, I do. But it was one whereby there was no "in between". Could it be passed as "dimissed" or almost guilty.

The defandant presented an interesting and wholly explainable account. His mistake was to leave and return and to have a girlfriend.

Yes I believe he has served his time and he should be allowed to return to employment. Not to be.

Now we deal with ethics which is similar in cycling whereby we pretend we don't want dopers to return.

I am ok about dopers returning after they have "served their time"
I just think: a their time should be more than 2 years &
B it should make a difference if you confess and name names

But these issues need to be dealt with by the UCI, same way as rape issues need to be dealt with by the criminal justice system.
 
Jul 11, 2013
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Freddythefrog said:
"BBC World: Why Did IAAF General Secretary Nick Davies Write a Passionate Letter to LetsRun.com Instead of Issuing a More Traditional Statement ?"

It screamed "weird" straight away. When I first posted it, I linked it to previous actions of Pat and Hein because it was just the same sort of stunt the pair of them would do.

Nick is taking pictures of Paula running the local Monaco 10k and posting them up on the IAAF website. "Paula sets new course record ......"

The response from Davies was because he is undoubtedly like so many at the higher echelons of the management of sport, clueless as to the practises of the dopers. Too many who should be bulwarks and be the most suspicious people are exactly the wrong sorts of people. They have been hoodwinked by druggies into friendship and consequent support.

Say it was Radcliffe who had been on that list years ago. A nice gesture of contact from the IAAF and a letter back from her medical team stating the values were all over the place because of pregnancy and and injury, would be received and hey presto, the case can be closed on her and normal socialising around Monaco can resume.

The last thing these idiots want is their life-long crush destroyed. Anything but that.

Shift it across to British Cycling and Cookson. The guy is expert in looking the other way when he thinks he might see something dodgy. He has in his employment ex-pro rider Lillistone. Lance's soigneur is accused of ferrying drugs across borders for Lance. She spouts some stuff about not knowing what was in the brown bag she was driving 1,000 miles to hand deliver to the person who put it in her hand. If she was genuinely too dumb to know what was in it, ex pro Lillistone would have not had the slightest doubt why he was in the car driving so far with Emma. Cookson could have put some very serious skids under Lance right then and there. As an employee of BC, paid out of public funds, Cookson would have been justified in questioning Lillistone to find out how much he knew about conducting criminal acts in illegal trafficking, particularly when he was in such a relevant position within BC. Instead the Muppet does nothing. The ineptness of people like Davies and Cookson are what enable the doping criminals to run rings round them.

OK so Reed made her twitter private this morning. From the original story it looks like she was just a silly girl who said some very inappropriate stuff and was then put under surveillance. Is the third runner likely to be her ? The evidence stacks up.

Radcliffe - last week she was calling for life bans for dopers. Then on Friday this regular tweeter suddenly lost her voice for 24 hours. A thread on LETSRUN picks up this point and suggests that she should be on with her usual calls and suddenly, after this, she is on twitter again. Not personally mark you, but re-tweeting other calls for harsh penalties. Actions like this do not need the best advising team out there to spot that thread and respond. It is quite a basic monitor and respond system. We saw what the Lance bots could do. And then there is an interview on radio five live today. Long term-planned or a recent move, "just in case" ?

The Mail and Telegraph have both run multiple stories as the news was breaking about the list. The Telegraph ran a double page spread complete with map in the printed version and now absolute silence. That ain't the silence bought with no low-cost legal jock Christine has employed. That silence has come with a high powered QC with matching statements from the athlete backed up by the IAAF both singing the exact same song from the song-sheet they have composed together. "Illegally gained information from the safe at Monaco - being used to tarnish the reputation of our client with innuendo and gossip. blah blah blah gathered expert medical evidence - blah blah blah See you in court for millions blah blah blah."

Lock-down achieved. Speculation - it might not be true in any way. But I look forward to reading about other hypotheses as to why the story is dropped completely.

Why does a Marathon runner get Walsh to do her autobiography ? On one side it was because he is an award winning journalist and "get in the best to do the best". Well why hire in a F1 car and then only drive at 30 mph ? That autobiography was appalling. If he was going to do a good job he would need access to the athlete and her story - that is logic of the most basic form. The opposite view was he was deliberately hired in for the coats of white paint his presence would add to the story.

Did he write such a rubbish 'bio because he realised he was being used ? Only Walsh will know that. But the facts are that through the height of epo usage in endurance sports Radcliffe holds the 3 fastest ever marathon times and none of those caught using epo have got near it. Three minutes back. On the one side we have a story nearly as good as the Lance story - plucky Brit shows dirty johnny foreigner a clean pair of heels. On the other we have an athlete who realises that the running track is on one hell of a slope and the idiots in charge will never do anything meaningful about it during her athletic career so just act smart. You only have one life - if you do it well - you will never get caught.

If I felt life bans were all-right for other nationalities and then had a scintilla of suspicion that one of my team-mates was "red" and selling me down the plug-hole, and I was a regular twitter user; I think I would be into overdrive (like that legal team was on Wednesday night). I would be saying "expose the crooks, I don't want them contaminating my achievements by association. Get the whole lot of the names published. Get those blood values out there".

But all that is speculation. I don't think a day passes when I think how superb it was that Lance was exposed. In 2005, he had his bag of swag and had waltzed off stage. Do I think it will be likely that there are similar busts in my life-time? Was "Al-Capone" the only Mr Big or was he the only "Mr Big" that got busted ? Was I a believer in Paula Radcliffe ? Sure as hell. When she first protested in the late 90s about the epo drug abusers I was. Do I now think that, like Sir Bradley, she protested then and now there is a ring of hollowness about the protests ? Yes I sure do. Do I think the truth will ever come out in respect of Paula Radcliffe ? No.

I think that is one happy bunny that played the field with the slope, exactly like Sir Brad and Mr Badzilla. This is exactly like the Lance story. Big brands and big names are behind Saint Paula. The most heavyweight legal team has leant on the Mail and the Telegraph. She might have the three fastest times up the Alpe d'Huez, faster than Pantani or whoever has been busted for epo usage, but she is not going to fall any time soon. Cookson and Davies and the other fools, with their brains fully disengaged, will ensure sanctity.

http://1.nieuwsbladcdn.be/Assets/Im...25-185509-wad-0-_dwa3625.jpg.h380.jpg.568.jpg

Good points...

The bolded in particular, is important..

The larger the player -the longer the wait (for any official controversy/case/ban).......... This is self-evident... Cycling is now clinging to old champions, due to current public acknowledgement that the last 20 years was dope or die...What is partucilarly annoying abt this is the fact that they doped the max back then too........!
Fact is that when controllers up their effort, so does the dopers...
Combined with human fallacy in the sense of power/money/survival being the catalyst of not only cycling but human drive in general.. Then we are not nearing any crossroad at all... Look at Astana, I don't think they survided by any other reason that no-one was ready to take their place.. Having guys like Nibali, Aru, Boom race on an individual/lousy team licence would be a scandal far worse then letting the vino boys ride.. That is why I think they are setting up a solution before the final thrust... Futhermore the rules seems constructed to protect any team, regardless of how dirty they are.. That is not Cooksons legacy, but if he fails to do something abt it in the next 12 months or so it IS his legacy... Furthemore it seems to me that Cookson might be struggling with a fundamental comprehension of what needs been done, as well as a system developed to avoid controversy.. This does not make him corrupt per se.. I'am actually leaning towards a interpretation of a guy who had good intentions but went in way over his head (someone medae the Obama copmarison) and i agree with that to some extend... Now, he needs to actually make allliances rather then alienating everyone... Let's see what happens...

edit: Oops.. thought I was in the Cookson thread.. Sorry
 
Jul 11, 2013
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Freddythefrog said:
Agreed. I don't think he wants to be ineffective but "clueless" is the best it gets. And it is in the right thread because the problem is that the crooks can play with these Muppets and take them for a ride. The whole show is distorted due to a failure to dare to take a critical look, despite the disaster that has befallen many sports.

We are at the week-end of the BBC Sports Personality of the Year show. It used to be called the sports review of the year and was a great annual event. Now it is a down-market X factor show based in a sporting context. That dumb ***** making jokes about some rugby player being "inside Church" (his girlfriend had a surname "Church") brought it to a new low. Have a look at the overseas personalities of the last 20 years and try and pick a non-PED user. There are not many I would put my money on. Brailsford, Sutton and Yates must have had so many laughs over a beer talking about the boss Cookson.

Excellent post...

Don't know wether to laugh or cry though...

Thanks...
 
Jun 14, 2010
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coinneach said:
Do you not think that is for the criminal justice system to deal with those complexities, but once someone is released after serving their sentence, they should be integrated back into society?

BTW I have no idea If Ennis is the athlete involved......but I'd like that to be resolved by the systems that manage those issues; and they should not include a kind of tabloid mob rule that can be whipped up by people who do not know what has happened, and have no authority in dealing with these issues, but like to court popularity.

What system is that? the one that has let the vast majority of dopers get away with it and driven a few of the tiny % who get scapeagoated to attempted suicide or even death?

The athlete in question isn't getting called out on running fast (itself a very underrated doping detection method). They are getting called out on having extremely dodgy blood profiles. When cyclists have dodgy blood profiles they get named and often suspended. Why should athletes be different.

Besides if the athlete is as famous as claimed she will have loads of people in the clueless press defending her.
Probably making the anarhcic observation that since she passed all the actual drug tests she must have been clean.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Freddythefrog said:
Agreed. I don't think he wants to be ineffective but "clueless" is the best it gets. ...
I'm not sure if Cookson didn't deliberately leave Zorzoli in place.