Brits don't dope?

[Catwhoorg]

Slightly different way of showing the data.

Really highlights how 1988 was an abnormality even in this dirty set of races

 

[Netserk]

Slightly different way of showing the data.

Really highlights how 1988 was an abnormality even in this dirty set of races

Also shows how much of an outlier Bolt is. Second fastest 'white' runner is Bailey?

 

[Catwhoorg]

Also shows how much of an outlier Bolt is. Second fastest 'white' runner is Bailey?

Correct.

As part of my real world job I get to do this sort of fiddling of trying to present large and often confusing amounts of data in a meaningful manner. I enjoy the challenge.

You can actually get a higher degree in this sort of thing now.(Informatics or information science), if I were younger it would be something I'd probably look at doing.

We as a society accumulate vast amounts of data of all sorts, drawing useful information out of that data fascinates me.

 

[del1962]

Maybe 1980 shouldnt even be on the graph due to the strength of sprinters from the nations boycotting the games

 

[thehog]

Maybe 1980 shouldnt even be on the graph due to the strength of sprinters from the nations boycotting the games

Last clean British sprinter at those Games, Alan Wells

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Correct.

As part of my real world job I get to do this sort of fiddling of trying to present large and often confusing amounts of data in a meaningful manner. I enjoy the challenge.

You can actually get a higher degree in this sort of thing now.(Informatics or information science), if I were younger it would be something I'd probably look at doing.

We as a society accumulate vast amounts of data of all sorts, drawing useful information out of that data fascinates me.

Sounds like a very cool environment in which to work. Data modeling is of interest here too - too many interests and not enough time.

There's a bunch of HTML5 libraries that can do incredible real time manipulation of visual data representations, he wrote, going completely OT.

Thanks for the follow up.

 

[thehog]

Correct.

As part of my real world job I get to do this sort of fiddling of trying to present large and often confusing amounts of data in a meaningful manner. I enjoy the challenge.

You can actually get a higher degree in this sort of thing now.(Informatics or information science), if I were younger it would be something I'd probably look at doing.

We as a society accumulate vast amounts of data of all sorts, drawing useful information out of that data fascinates me.

We need to start the 'data modeling' thread.

What software do you use? Informatica?

 

[Catwhoorg]

Last clean British sprinter at those Games, Alan Wells

Yeah I'm partial to Alan which is a bias I'll admit to.

I know several sprinter in 1980 there probably have state sponsored doping programs, but its so hard to get information that far back.

Cutting the data at 2000 (So the WADA era) loses some interesting points, so why not 1980 ? its as arbitrary as any other date.

 

[thehog]

Yeah I'm partial to Alan which is a bias I'll admit to.

I know several sprinter in 1980 there probably have state sponsored doping programs, but its so hard to get information that far back.

Cutting the data at 2000 (So the WADA era) loses some interesting points, so why not 1980 ? its as arbitrary as any other date.

I think Wells was the last white man to medal in the 100m at the Games was he not?

And Baranov the Russian.

 

[Catwhoorg]

We need to start the 'data modeling' thread.

What software do you use? Informatica?

Mix of excel, sigmaplot and a propitiatory DOE (Design of Experiment) package. I can grab help for more complex stats stuff and they use Informatica and another program whose name escapes me.

We have a Master's in information science person in the lab (actually 2 now, one is close to retirement, the other fresh from school)

At home I throw open office into the mix.

 

[del1962]

Yeah I'm partial to Alan which is a bias I'll admit to.

I know several sprinter in 1980 there probably have state sponsored doping programs, but its so hard to get information that far back.

Cutting the data at 2000 (So the WADA era) loses some interesting points, so why not 1980 ? its as arbitrary as any other date.

Alan Wells had to be persuaded to use starting blocks, trained by his missus

 

[TheSpud]

Alan Wells had to be persuaded to use starting blocks, trained by his missus

The biggest help he had was the American boycott.

 

[Catwhoorg]

He did beat the three likely (or was it confirmed) members of the US team at a meet not long after the Olympics.

Then again in 1981 at a world cup meet he beat the best of the US.


But it certainly made it easier.

 

[thehog]

The biggest help he had was the American boycott.

Yes, the blocks story sounds Early-80s-Froomey-sandshoes-esque.

Not sure I'd believe it.

 

[thehog]

Mix of excel, sigmaplot and a propitiatory DOE (Design of Experiment) package. I can grab help for more complex stats stuff and they use Informatica and another program whose name escapes me.

We have a Master's in information science person in the lab (actually 2 now, one is close to retirement, the other fresh from school)

At home I throw open office into the mix.

Thanks, not heard of Sigmaplot. Looks interesting.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Jeezus. You're right. All other valid info aside, that piece reads like a spot-the-error quiz.

WTF? I realize that the article is several years old, but the misuse is so rampant throughout that it almost seems deliberate. It really does represent one of the more egregious examples of linguistic butchery that I've come across in what is an otherwise intellectual offering. Odd.

Anyway, back to the regularly scheduled program...

He recently came out with a book. It is the first book I would recommend to a new track coach or distance athlete, with the best balance of physio-talk and practical applications, but the writing is terrible. Things like .issing .he .irst .etters of .entences, where he probably backspaced a lowercase but never typed the captial. Still, the content is good enough that I recommend it.

If we were really savvy, we could tie those trends to the trend of drugs. 1988 may be too early for sprinters' interest in EPO. Whatever Michael Johnson was on in 1996 looks popular. A field slow-down after BALCO in late 2004. Also, excepting Bolt, we see some compression of the rest of the field. Others are catching on/catching up.

 

[red_flanders]

If we were really savvy, we could tie those trends to the trend of drugs. 1988 may be too early for sprinters' interest in EPO. Whatever Michael Johnson was on in 1996 looks popular. A field slow-down after BALCO in late 2004. Also, excepting Bolt, we see some compression of the rest of the field. Others are catching on/catching up.

One hypothesis I would have is that if the data went back 50 more years (or further), you would not see a similar slope of declining times going all the way back. I would guess there would be very slow change up until about the start of that plot and then the drops in time you see here.

 

[del1962]

According to times on wiki 1980 was the slowest since 1956

 

[Catwhoorg]

Wikipedia has a plot, but to me its a little busy and unclear with the colours an text.

The womens one is comical

*cough* Flo-Jo *cough*

 

[TheSpud]

Yes, the blocks story sounds Early-80s-Froomey-sandshoes-esque.

Not sure I'd believe it.

The american boycott is like Wiggo having his major competitors sidelined and having a flatter course ...




Sorry ... couldnt resist it.

 

[TheSpud]

The womens one is comical

*cough* Flo-Jo *cough*

Was there a Flo-Jo run where the wind meter was wrong / tampered with?

 

[Catwhoorg]

Was there a Flo-Jo run where the wind meter was wrong / tampered with?

The races either side of it had significant wind assistance (~+ 5 m/s), but her best (for realz) non-wind assisted time is ~10.6. Still far and away ahead of her rivals.

 

[Parker]

Was there a Flo-Jo run where the wind meter was wrong / tampered with?

Yeah, her World Record. For which the wind reading was apparently 0.0

On the other side of the stadium triple jumpers were knocking out 17.50m+ jumps for fun with an illegal 5.2 tailwind (including two 18m+ jumps from Willie Banks, who 'broke' his own world record by 23cm).

 

[blackcat]

Yeah, her World Record. For which the wind reading was apparently 0.0

On the other side of the stadium triple jumpers were knocking out 17.50m+ jumps for fun with an illegal 5.2 tailwind (including two 18m+ jumps from Willie Banks, who 'broke' his own world record by 23cm).

willie banks. geat p0rnst@r name

 

[lilac harry quinn]

The 1980 final was the slowest since 1956 (although I'm not sure what the electronic time from 1960 was), however Wells ran 10.11 easing up in his quarter final. The final was run into a headwind. Wells was definitely helped by the boycott, but the fastest American that year - James Sandford, 10.02 - was injured at the time of the games anyway. Floyd and Lattany were beaten by Wells in Cologne, their first crack at him after the games. I have no doubt that Wells would have won boycott or not.

Whether he was clean, well that's another matter. I'd like to believe it, but he emerged from being a mediocre long jumper in 1978 to equal the British record of 10.29, and then a couple of weeks later take it down to 10.15 before running Don Quarrie close at the Commonwealths. His training methods were unusual as well - no weight training but lots of circuits and particularly speed ball work. I actually think the speed ball work has merits for a sprinter in training the CNS, but it appears to have fallen out of favour since Wells.

I trained with some Polish sprinters at the time who had come to Manchester when Kazimiersz Deyna signed for Manchester City. They definitely couldn't believe that Wells wasn't on the juice, although I think their only evidence was that he was faster than Marian Woronin. (Nor strictly true as Woronin ran a 10.00)