Brits don't dope?

[blackcat]

btw cats, Gordonstoun is in Scotland

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

Its all just Brit-bashing anyway. I've lost count of the amount of times I've heard (non-cycling) Aussie in-laws/friends tell me that Australians wouldn't cheat as it is so against their culture of fair sport. No difference. Same blinkers.

If you ask cycling Brits, you'll find they are just as cynical of their own kin as they are of others.

Many cycling Brits are in here defending sky. Check out the British cycling mags, forums and you will find very little criticising sky and no mention of doping.

They get bashed for a reason.

But then you know this.......

 

[wendybnt]

Re: Re:

Its all just Brit-bashing anyway. I've lost count of the amount of times I've heard (non-cycling) Aussie in-laws/friends tell me that Australians wouldn't cheat as it is so against their culture of fair sport. No difference. Same blinkers.

If you ask cycling Brits, you'll find they are just as cynical of their own kin as they are of others.

Many cycling Brits are in here defending sky. Check out the British cycling mags, forums and you will find very little criticising sky and no mention of doping.

They get bashed for a reason.

But then you know this.......

I don't think you have understood my post.

I'm saying that there is nothing unusual in people of a particular nation showing loyalty, however blind. It isn't a particular trait of the Brits and anybody who claims that it is, is most likely trolling.

Your post is just giving examples of that blind loyalty.

 

[blackcat]

Re:

Its all just Brit-bashing anyway. I've lost count of the amount of times I've heard (non-cycling) Aussie in-laws/friends tell me that Australians wouldn't cheat as it is so against their culture of fair sport. No difference. Same blinkers.

If you ask cycling Brits, you'll find they are just as cynical of their own kin as they are of others.

your husband should be honest and admit that australians dope with the best of them, often exceed anyone else's appetite, and will lie thru their teeth too. afterall, as someone corrected me on this forum, descended from convicts

 

[wendybnt]

Re: Re:

Its all just Brit-bashing anyway. I've lost count of the amount of times I've heard (non-cycling) Aussie in-laws/friends tell me that Australians wouldn't cheat as it is so against their culture of fair sport. No difference. Same blinkers.

If you ask cycling Brits, you'll find they are just as cynical of their own kin as they are of others.

your husband should be honest and admit that australians dope with the best of them, often exceed anyone else's appetite, and will lie thru their teeth too. afterall, as someone corrected me on this forum, descended from convicts

You tell him...

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Its all just Brit-bashing anyway. I've lost count of the amount of times I've heard (non-cycling) Aussie in-laws/friends tell me that Australians wouldn't cheat as it is so against their culture of fair sport. No difference. Same blinkers.

If you ask cycling Brits, you'll find they are just as cynical of their own kin as they are of others.

Many cycling Brits are in here defending sky. Check out the British cycling mags, forums and you will find very little criticising sky and no mention of doping.

They get bashed for a reason.

But then you know this.......

I don't think you have understood my post.

I'm saying that there is nothing unusual in people of a particular nation showing loyalty, however blind. It isn't a particular trait of the Brits and anybody who claims that it is, is most likely trolling.

Your post is just giving examples of that blind loyalty.

I dont think,e.g., the Italians make a song and dance of being fair like the British. Yet 61 Italians were caught doping last year! The immediate thought that occurs is Italians are big time cheats, but in actuality they are one of the few, maybe only one, trying to combat doping!!!

All nations show loyalty but the British make a big thing of being fair. The recent hubris over Radcliffe's doping showed this. Heck just listen to British commentary on any sport the British are competing in and you hear it continuously.

 

[wendybnt]

Do you speak any foreign languages?

 

[carton]

Re:

Do you speak any foreign languages?

I believe Benotti's French. So that should answer your question.

The British journalists seem keen to espouse a slightly harder line on doping than, say, the Italians or the Spaniards. And I think the Brits in particular try to cultivate an air of objectivity that's untenable but I don't think it's a bad thing when done with self-awareness. But it can be a fair bit hypocritical at times. In any case they're no worse than the French

 

[Lyon]

Sure, Brit's dope, but only because everybody else did it first.

 

[bobbins]

Cyclists dope. Some cyclists are British, QED, some Brits dope. Now get over yourselves ;-)

 

[wendybnt]

Re: Re:

Do you speak any foreign languages?

I believe Benotti's French. So that should answer your question.

The British journalists seem keen to espouse a slightly harder line on doping than, say, the Italians or the Spaniards. And I think the Brits in particular try to cultivate an air of objectivity that's untenable but I don't think it's a bad thing when done with self-awareness. But it can be a fair bit hypocritical at times. In any case they're no worse than the French

No it doesn't answer my question at all.

I've no idea what Spanish and Italian commentators say because I don't speak their languages.

 

[del1962]

Does Vayer believe all French Cyclists are clean?

 

[carton]

Re: Re:

No it doesn't answer my question at all.

I've no idea what Spanish and Italian commentators say because I don't speak their languages.

Since Benotti's french and he's writing in a English, then he's at least bilingual, English likely being his second language. And I'm guessing by his forum name he speaks Italian as well. In any case, I can back up his assertion that Italians and Spaniards are not really big on discussing doping on air. I disagree with Benotti, in that I don't think that's a good thing. However hypocritical and self-serving the British (and French) approach may be (particularly if you're absolutely sure, as Benotti is, that Sky are doping), it's better for the sport IMHO than the outright oblivious ostrich approach.

In my case I've heard American, British, Colombian, Mexican, Spanish, Argentine, Brazilian, French and Italian announcers call races at some point or another. Though, to be fair, announcers are usually just a handful of guys in every country, the newspapers and wrap-up shows get you a broader feel of the nations mood and reporting.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

...And I'm guessing by his forum name he speaks Italian as well...

Possibly a bad guess. My Flemish is terrible

 

[buckle]

If you want to see the joke which is the Anglo-Saxon diaspora in sport check out Rugby. The French have been on the receiving end for a century from crooked refs. The famous '99 semi-final France v New Zealand was hilarious when a Welsh ref thought he was reading from the anti-French script only to be informed by an English assistant that the script was not being used and it was ok to stop penalising them. All this was inadvertently relayed by the ITV commentator John Taylor who could hear the miked up officials. The second half witnessed a bizarre transformation

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

If you want to see the joke which is the Anglo-Saxon diaspora in sport check out Rugby. The French have been on the receiving end for a century from crooked refs. The famous '99 semi-final France v New Zealand was hilarious when a Welsh ref thought he was reading from the anti-French script only to be informed by an English assistant that the script was not being used and it was ok to stop penalising them. All this was inadvertently relayed by the ITV commentator John Taylor who could hear the miked up officials. The second half witnessed a bizarre transformation

Calling B.S. France are the most successful nation in the 6 nations post WWII.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_national_rugby_union_team#Six_Nations

They have also reach the final of the World Cup 3 times, as many as Australia, New Zealand and England and more than South Africa.

 

[wendybnt]

Re: Re:

No it doesn't answer my question at all.

I've no idea what Spanish and Italian commentators say because I don't speak their languages.

Since Benotti's french and he'se writing in a English, then he's at least bilingual, English likely being his second language. And I'm guessing by his forum name he speaks Italian as well. In any case, I can back up his assertion that Italians and Spaniards are not really big on discussing doping on air. I disagree with Benotti, in that I don't think that's a good thing. However hypocritical and self-serving the British (and French) approach may be (particularly if you're absolutely sure, as Benotti is, that Sky are doping), it's better for the sport IMHO than the outright oblivious ostrich approach.

In my case I've heard American, British, Colombian, Mexican, Spanish, Argentine, Brazilian, French and Italian announcers call races at some point or another. Though, to be fair, announcers are usually just a handful of guys in every country, the newspapers and wrap-up shows get you a broader feel of the nations mood and reporting.

That is a lot of assumptions you are making about Benottis linguistic abilities.

All we know is he speaks English. He might just as well be Irish. If I could be bothered I'd go and look through his post history and dig out all those links to Spanish, Italian and French media websites he must at some point have referred to. After all, he's a very prolific poster isn't he, and he wouldn't just draw his evidence from English language media, surely

 

[Irondan]

Re: Re:

No it doesn't answer my question at all.

I've no idea what Spanish and Italian commentators say because I don't speak their languages.

Since Benotti's french and he'se writing in a English, then he's at least bilingual, English likely being his second language. And I'm guessing by his forum name he speaks Italian as well. In any case, I can back up his assertion that Italians and Spaniards are not really big on discussing doping on air. I disagree with Benotti, in that I don't think that's a good thing. However hypocritical and self-serving the British (and French) approach may be (particularly if you're absolutely sure, as Benotti is, that Sky are doping), it's better for the sport IMHO than the outright oblivious ostrich approach.

In my case I've heard American, British, Colombian, Mexican, Spanish, Argentine, Brazilian, French and Italian announcers call races at some point or another. Though, to be fair, announcers are usually just a handful of guys in every country, the newspapers and wrap-up shows get you a broader feel of the nations mood and reporting.

That is a lot of assumptions you are making about Benottis linguistic abilities.

All we know is he speaks English. He might just as well be Irish. If I could be bothered I'd go and look through his post history and dig out all those links to Spanish, Italian and French media websites he must at some point have referred to. After all, he's a very prolific poster isn't he, and he wouldn't just draw his evidence from English language media, surely

Debating a members personal information for any reason is prohibited. Please comment on the topic at hand.

>>>Post, not poster<<<

 

[wendybnt]

It is the topic at hand.

Benotti is making the point that other nationalities talk differently about the possibilities of their own kinsmen doping and this is reflected in commentary in the media. My question is this...if you don't speak their language and actively read and watch their media, how would you know?

Benotti may, he may not, but if he does it would be great for him to bring some evidence for his assertion to the table. I'm not trying to catch him out. It would be interesting to see some actual examples.

 

[tantocomo]

Re:

It is the topic at hand.

Benotti is making the point that other nationalities talk differently about the possibilities of their own kinsmen doping and this is reflected in commentary in the media. My question is this...if you don't speak their language and actively read and watch their media, how would you know?

This is a really interesting point. I've lived in Spain for over 2 years now and follow a whole range of sports across different media, and not once heard them talking about doping. And this might be my British point of view but I wouldn't really expect them to either.
Can anyone prove me wrong though?!

 

[Irondan]

The topic at hand is 'Brit's don't dope?'.

Insisting on making a debate about a members private information is doing nothing but derailing this thread.

If you need private information from a member, please request this information via the PM system.

Remember: >> Post, not poster <<.

Now, let's move on please.

 

[buckle]

Re: Re:

If you want to see the joke which is the Anglo-Saxon diaspora in sport check out Rugby. The French have been on the receiving end for a century from crooked refs. The famous '99 semi-final France v New Zealand was hilarious when a Welsh ref thought he was reading from the anti-French script only to be informed by an English assistant that the script was not being used and it was ok to stop penalising them. All this was inadvertently relayed by the ITV commentator John Taylor who could hear the miked up officials. The second half witnessed a bizarre transformation

Calling B.S. France are the most successful nation in the 6 nations post WWII.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_national_rugby_union_team#Six_Nations

They have also reach the final of the World Cup 3 times, as many as Australia, New Zealand and England and more than South Africa.

It's because they are good in spite of the refs. When they were thrown out of the old 5 nations many of their players turned to rugby league and started beating up Australia after the War. I recall Claude Spanghero interviewed on French TV regarded the refs in the 5 nations and he was not bitter but realistic in his assessment (unlike you). Lawrence Dallaglio admitted (live on ITV) that the French did not stand a chance in the final 4 years ago because of the South African ref.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

If you want to see the joke which is the Anglo-Saxon diaspora in sport check out Rugby. The French have been on the receiving end for a century from crooked refs. The famous '99 semi-final France v New Zealand was hilarious when a Welsh ref thought he was reading from the anti-French script only to be informed by an English assistant that the script was not being used and it was ok to stop penalising them. All this was inadvertently relayed by the ITV commentator John Taylor who could hear the miked up officials. The second half witnessed a bizarre transformation

Calling B.S. France are the most successful nation in the 6 nations post WWII.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_national_rugby_union_team#Six_Nations

They have also reach the final of the World Cup 3 times, as many as Australia, New Zealand and England and more than South Africa.

It's because they are good in spite of the refs. When they were thrown out of the old 5 nations many of their players turned to rugby league and started beating up Australia after the War. I recall Claude Spanghero interviewed on French TV regarded the refs in the 5 nations and he was not bitter but realistic in his assessment (unlike you). Lawrence Dallaglio admitted (live on ITV) that the French did not stand a chance in the final 4 years ago because of the South African ref.

Rubbish, there have been just as many incidences of allegation of ref bias against other teams, just look at Steve Walsh. I have little regard for two peoples' opinions, I've quoted results showing that France have arguably been the most successful post-war international Northern Hemisphere rugby union team and certainly would be had they won a World Cup. Are you claiming they would have been even more successful, outstripping NZ? I highly doubt that. The stats don't lie, France have been incredibly successful (even at a club level they have won more Heiniken Cups than any other nation and have more runners up medals). You've taken two people's opinions that go completely against the quoted statistics but believed them because they support your position.

The 2011 final was won by one point by a team who had not lost a game. In contrast the French had lost 2 pool games, including one against the eventual winners New Zealand, and had experienced a player revolt against their coach. It's hardly surprising France lost. Yes, Joubert was criticised but many came to the conclusion NZ still took their chances and France lost through lack of a decent kicker. He also left Rougerie on the field who should have been sent off.

And post, not poster or we're done here.

 

[Benotti69]

http://road.cc/content/news/164598-british-cyclist-dan-stevens-serve-21-month-doping-ban

British cyclist Dan Stevens is now the third Brit serving a racing suspension under anti-doping rules, having failed to supply a sample for an out-of-competition anti-doping test on January 29, 2014.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re:

http://road.cc/content/news/164598-british-cyclist-dan-stevens-serve-21-month-doping-ban

British cyclist Dan Stevens is now the third Brit serving a racing suspension under anti-doping rules, having failed to supply a sample for an out-of-competition anti-doping test on January 29, 2014.

Did he deny access or do a Bassons?

(It doesn't say)

UK Anti-Doping said that Stevens gave “valuable anti-doping information” that justified a three-month shortening of the ban.

Stevens appealed against the decision this week, but later agreed to refrain from racing until November 1 2015.

What a tosser.