Brits don't dope?

[Freddythefrog]

Most people have worked it out. A couple of days ago BBC Radio Four "Today" program were interviewing a weather expert about the weather patterns of recent years and he said that it was like an athlete on pills - it was super-performing.

Those peskie Ruskies sabotaging the London games winning all those medals. Now just who else is up there with them ?

 

[blackcat]

Re:

Most people have worked it out. A couple of days ago BBC Radio Four "Today" program were interviewing a weather expert about the weather patterns of recent years and he said that it was like an athlete on pills - it was super-performing.

Those peskie Ruskies sabotaging the London games winning all those medals. Now just who else is up there with them ?

no doubt.

but the populace (does not matter where) still has the cognitive dissonance.

in defense of the populace, and the regular joe and jane, i was a whipper snapper and completely ignorant at the Sydney Olympics in 2000. I thought we were imbibing some home olympics determination and muscular christianity... we werent, we were just doping up a storm.

and even the term "we" raises some skeezy nationalism impulses...

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

Most people have worked it out. A couple of days ago BBC Radio Four "Today" program were interviewing a weather expert about the weather patterns of recent years and he said that it was like an athlete on pills - it was super-performing.

Those peskie Ruskies sabotaging the London games winning all those medals. Now just who else is up there with them ?

no doubt.

but the populace (does not matter where) still has the cognitive dissonance.

in defense of the populace, and the regular joe and jane, i was a whipper snapper and completely ignorant at the Sydney Olympics in 2000. I thought we were imbibing some home olympics determination and muscular christianity... we werent, we were just doping up a storm.

and even the term "we" raises some skeezy nationalism impulses...

be mild on yourself blackcat.
i hate nationalism, yet I can't fight it when i'm watching a game of soccer.
other admission: I always hated Bayern Munich, but I started cheering for them when Van Gaal and Robben were there.

 

[sniper]

i just posted this in the Hoy thread, thought I'd move it here:

the good thing about sport in Britain at the moment i reckon is that there is one central sponsor, the National Lottery, for all olympic sports.
iinm they are even funding events for UKAD, but i'd need to check that.
In any case, everybody in GB sports has eyes in the same direction atm.

to add an example of UKAD and Lottery collaboration:

UKAD Director of Communications and Education Nicola Newman added: “UKAD is delighted to be part of the Sainsbury’s School Games working with the Youth Sport Trust and NGBs for the eighth consecutive year. We are seeking to provide the next generation of potential British medallists with the knowledge needed to understand anti-doping rules and processes to minimise the risk of a career ending and life changing ban from sport.”
http://www.ukad.org.uk/news/article/record-numbers-of-athletes-to-receive-anti-doping-education-at-sainsburys

Sainsbury's School Games, in turn, is funded fully by National Lottery. I don't doubt they pay (part of) UKAD's expenses (but correct me if wrong).

I also like the "whatever you do never test positive" awareness in Ms. Newman's message there.

 

[sniper]

Yikes.
National Lottery is advertising UKAD jobs now?
http://www.uksport.gov.uk/jobs-in-sport/UK-Anti-Doping-Board-Member-UKSP-3472

and the government is handing out Lottery grants?
https://data.gov.uk/dataset/dcms-lottery-grants-database

 

[sniper]

Re:

Yikes.
National Lottery is advertising UKAD jobs now?
http://www.uksport.gov.uk/jobs-in-sport/UK-Anti-Doping-Board-Member-UKSP-3472

some eyebrowraisers in that job description:

Job Description
UKAD is the United Kingdom's independent National Anti-Doping Organisation (NADO) and was set up in 2009. UKAD is responsible for the implementation of the Government's Anti-Doping Policy for sport. It has established itself as a world leading NADO. Through the use of intelligence and investigations together with a well-developed education programme, UKAD has been highly successful in deterring doping and in catching not only cheating athletes but also athlete support personnel assisting them in this regard.
...
Essential Criteria

All candidates must be able to demonstrate evidence of the following:

Awareness of the current anti-doping context and challenges for the future
A strong record in strategic decision-making and planning at a senior level in the private or public sector
A good grasp of the Nolan principles
Excellent interpersonal, communication and representational skills (some media experience would be desirable)
The ability to win the respect of, negotiate with, and influence, senior members of the government, sports and law enforcement agencies, and other key stakeholders; and
The ability to work well with people from different backgrounds and a commitment to improving diversity and equality
...
Please return your completed applications to:

seems you don't have to be antidoping nor is it your task to catch cheats.
sounds more like a "are you good at covering stuff up? come work with us!" kind of call.

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

Yikes.
National Lottery is advertising UKAD jobs now?
http://www.uksport.gov.uk/jobs-in-sport/UK-Anti-Doping-Board-Member-UKSP-3472

and the government is handing out Lottery grants?
https://data.gov.uk/dataset/dcms-lottery-grants-database

I'm almost certain the government has always handled the distribution of Lottery funding, probably through various quangos or whatever committees do it. I would have thought it was the same in any country?

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

Yikes.
National Lottery is advertising UKAD jobs now?
http://www.uksport.gov.uk/jobs-in-sport/UK-Anti-Doping-Board-Member-UKSP-3472

and the government is handing out Lottery grants?
https://data.gov.uk/dataset/dcms-lottery-grants-database

I'm almost certain the government has always handled the distribution of Lottery funding, probably through various quangos or whatever committees do it. I would have thought it was the same in any country?

yeah, i guess it makes sense after all.

so is it fair to say that UK Sport is in fact 100% government-funded?
http://www.uksport.gov.uk/
As you can see there at the bottom, they have two funding partners,
1. Dep. for Media, Culture and Sport
2. National Lottery

 

[The Carrot]

Re:

i just posted this in the Hoy thread, thought I'd move it here:

the good thing about sport in Britain at the moment i reckon is that there is one central sponsor, the National Lottery, for all olympic sports.
iinm they are even funding events for UKAD, but i'd need to check that.
In any case, everybody in GB sports has eyes in the same direction atm.

to add an example of UKAD and Lottery collaboration:

UKAD Director of Communications and Education Nicola Newman added: “UKAD is delighted to be part of the Sainsbury’s School Games working with the Youth Sport Trust and NGBs for the eighth consecutive year. We are seeking to provide the next generation of potential British medallists with the knowledge needed to understand anti-doping rules and processes to minimise the risk of a career ending and life changing ban from sport.”
http://www.ukad.org.uk/news/article/record-numbers-of-athletes-to-receive-anti-doping-education-at-sainsburys

Sainsbury's School Games, in turn, is funded fully by National Lottery. I don't doubt they pay (part of) UKAD's expenses (but correct me if wrong).

I also like the "whatever you do never test positive" awareness in Ms. Newman's message there.

Another ambiguous anti doping statement like the ITF's, whose Anti-Doping Program's goal is to maintain the integrity of tennis.

 

[sniper]

The dime just dropped. A bit late, but it dropped.
So UKAD and UK Sport are in fact funded by the same funding body: UK government.

Too much government influence on sport in Russia?
Talking about faux outrage.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Yikes.
National Lottery is advertising UKAD jobs now?
http://www.uksport.gov.uk/jobs-in-sport/UK-Anti-Doping-Board-Member-UKSP-3472

and the government is handing out Lottery grants?
https://data.gov.uk/dataset/dcms-lottery-grants-database

I'm almost certain the government has always handled the distribution of Lottery funding, probably through various quangos or whatever committees do it. I would have thought it was the same in any country?

yeah, i guess it makes sense after all.

so is it fair to say that UK Sport is in fact 100% government-funded?
http://www.uksport.gov.uk/
As you can see there at the bottom, they have two funding partners,
1. Dep. for Media, Culture and Sport
2. National Lottery

The Government distributes the Lottery funding but it's distinct from Government funding which, to me, implies tax money. Hard to say otherwise though, they do have other partners but whether they provide funding in cash or kind I can't see. If I had to guess I'd would plump for majority public funding.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

Yikes.
National Lottery is advertising UKAD jobs now?
http://www.uksport.gov.uk/jobs-in-sport/UK-Anti-Doping-Board-Member-UKSP-3472

and the government is handing out Lottery grants?
https://data.gov.uk/dataset/dcms-lottery-grants-database

I'm almost certain the government has always handled the distribution of Lottery funding, probably through various quangos or whatever committees do it. I would have thought it was the same in any country?

yeah, i guess it makes sense after all.

so is it fair to say that UK Sport is in fact 100% government-funded?
http://www.uksport.gov.uk/
As you can see there at the bottom, they have two funding partners,
1. Dep. for Media, Culture and Sport
2. National Lottery

The Government distributes the Lottery funding but it's distinct from Government funding which, to me, implies tax money. Hard to say otherwise though, they do have other partners but whether they provide funding in cash or kind I can't see. If I had to guess I'd would plump for majority public funding.

yeah, you're probably right.

from wikipedia:
Of all money spent on National Lottery games, 50% goes to the prize fund, 28% to "good causes" as set out by Parliament (though some of this is considered by some to be a form of "stealth tax"[2] levied to support the Big Lottery Fund, a fund constituted to support public spending),[3] 12% to the UK Government as duty, 5% to retailers as commission, and a total of 5% to operator Camelot, with 4.5% to cover operating costs and 0.5% as profit

 

[Rob27172]

there is National Lottery funding pool
There are government grants
and there are other government lottery programs as well
The government has a myriad of pots of money that it can pay people out of - it is a key method that all govts use to ensure that should anything go wrong they can pull that one piece of funding without having to impact an entire population until the issue is resolved

 

[sniper]

Re:

there is National Lottery funding pool
There are government grants
and there are other government lottery programs as well
The government has a myriad of pots of money that it can pay people out of - it is a key method that all govts use to ensure that should anything go wrong they can pull that one piece of funding without having to impact an entire population until the issue is resolved

cheers.

so to sum up, is it fair to say that UKAD banning a Lottery funded athlete for doping is an example of 'biting the hand that feeds'?

 

[The Carrot]

Lottery funding is the reason we keep beating those pesky cheating Ruskies, it's much more effective than doping you see. However, it only rewards absolute success at the micro and macro levels so no incentive to cheat to get on the funding ladder either .

Also UK Sport have received extra funding which is slightly bizarre in the age of austerity.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/34925048

 

[sniper]

Lottery funding is the reason we keep beating those pesky cheating Ruskies, it's much more effective than doping you see. However, it only rewards absolute success at the micro and macro levels so no incentive to cheat to get on the funding ladder either .

Also UK Sport have received extra funding which is slightly bizarre in the age of austerity.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/34925048

salient.

Rod Carr, chief of UK Sport:
http://www.uksport.gov.uk/news/2014/11/20/rod-carr-national-lottery-is-the-fuel-that-feeds-the-engine

You only have to cast your mind back to Atlanta 1996 to recall how difficult things were before the advent of National Lottery funding for high performance sport. Great Britain experienced a sobering Olympic games winning a solitary gold to finish a lowly 36th in the medal table and there were even tales of athletes selling their kit to make some money.

But that low point proved to be a transformational moment for high performance sport in Great Britain. It resulted in the creation of UK Sport in 1997 and the decision to invest National Lottery funds in to sport

This funding has turbo-charged the sporting system in Great Britain to such an extent we are now among the sporting super powers at the Olympic and Paralympic Games.

 

[The Carrot]

Sporting transformations are rightly seen as 'red flags' here. I can think of no bigger one than Team GB.

 

[blackcat]

what is sport if you can win medals with money, then are rewarded in prizes like Armstrong Wiggins Froome et al

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Not sure why govt funding of cycling (and sport in general) is such a revelation. Cycling world wide sucks on the teat of public money. Of the very few events that makes money for its promoter, e.g. the TdF, large amounts of public money are still subsidising it, be it infrastructure or operational support, or towns bidding to host start/finishes etc. Most races lose money and survive in large parts through govt/public money sponsorship of one kind or another. Then of course there are the direct grants to high performance programs etc. Most indoor velodromes are built with public monies (e.g. new one in Brisbane is costing taxpayers well over $50 million). Very few actually run in the black.

 

[sniper]

Re:

Not sure why govt funding of cycling (and sport in general) is such a revelation. Cycling world wide sucks on the teat of public money. Of the very few events that makes money for its promoter, e.g. the TdF, large amounts of public money are still subsidising it, be it infrastructure or operational support, or towns bidding to host start/finishes etc. Most races lose money and survive in large parts through govt/public money sponsorship of one kind or another. Then of course there are the direct grants to high performance programs etc. Most indoor velodromes are built with public monies (e.g. new one in Brisbane is costing taxpayers well over $50 million). Very few actually run in the black.

good points.

the thing i think needs to be pointed out is that UKAD is funded by the same institution as UK Sport: the government.
That isn't spectacular either. But just saying. The way the (british) press are hammering the "state-funded" aspect of the Russia scandal down our throats (pretending it is some left-over communist phenomenon) is striking, considering that the whole of UK sports including antidoping is state funded.
The outrage over Russia's *state-funded* doping program is a faux outrage.
imo.

 

[sniper]

Any ideas where Asker Jeukendrup fits into all this? He was with Rabobank a long time and had very close ties with BC.
http://x2t.com/199751

Jeukendrup's client Lornah Kiplagat (a Kenyan running for Netherlands, now retired) founded a by now quite renowned high altitude training camp in Iten, Kenya.
Look who went training there in 2012:
http://www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/16850262

Sort of funny now with the shocking 'news' breaking that there hasn't been any OOC testing in Kenya between 2006-2012.

Farah also had a three-month training period there in 2014, btw, to prepare for the London marathon.

 

[thehog]

Re:

Any ideas where Asker Jeukendrup fits into all this? He was with Rabobank a long time and had very close ties with BC.
http://x2t.com/199751

Jeukendrup's client Lornah Kiplagat (a Kenyan running for Netherlands, now retired) founded a by now quite renowned high altitude training camp in Iten, Kenya.
Look who went training there in 2012:
http://www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/16850262

Sort of funny now with the shocking 'news' breaking that there hasn't been any OOC testing in Kenya between 2006-2012.

Farah also had a three-month training period there in 2014, btw, to prepare for the London marathon.

Camp No Positives.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

Any ideas where Asker Jeukendrup fits into all this? He was with Rabobank a long time and had very close ties with BC.
http://x2t.com/199751

Jeukendrup's client Lornah Kiplagat (a Kenyan running for Netherlands, now retired) founded a by now quite renowned high altitude training camp in Iten, Kenya.
Look who went training there in 2012:
http://www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/16850262

Sort of funny now with the shocking 'news' breaking that there hasn't been any OOC testing in Kenya between 2006-2012.

Farah also had a three-month training period there in 2014, btw, to prepare for the London marathon.

Camp No Positives.

some gems in that BBC article btw.

Brother Colm O'Connell explaining why Kenyans run so fast:

"Running is an extension of their lives," he says. "It's not something that's imposed on them - they do it instinctively."

Wonder how he explains Wiggins and Froome outclimbing altitude natives.

Radcliffe lauds Iten as one of the most beautiful and inspirational places to train. "The High Altitude Centre is perfect for being able to live that monastic training life. There's nothing to do other than focus on your training and that's what we want."

No testing, no distractions. Understood.

The British camp in Iten is marshalled by UK Athletics and the organisers of the London Marathon, and passionately endorsed by the UKA's head of endurance, Ian Stewart: "This is just a massive endurance enclave," he said. "You don't see any long jumpers here. It's motivational for all our athletes and that's a big reason why we come here."

One interesting thing here is the link Jeukendrup-UK Athletics. He's worked for and with them in different capacities, and now they're using his (or his former client's) training facilities in Kenya, where, as we now know, (blood) doping has been flourishing like in very few other places.

Appointed by UKA in 2008, Stewart is striving to change the British athletes' mentality as well as their results. "There's more of a 'Yes we can' attitude now," he believes. And in Iten, they are inspired to do it the hard way. The Kenyan way.

 

[TheSpud]

Re:

what is sport if you can win medals with money, then are rewarded in prizes like Armstrong Wiggins Froome et al

Current sport is dominated by £/$/€ etc - its the same in most/every country, no point trying to say its just a UK thing ...

 

[Catwhoorg]

UK Anti-Doping (UKAD) today confirmed that amateur cyclist Robin Townsend has been suspended from all sport for four years following an Anti-Doping Rule Violation.

http://www.ukad.org.uk/news/article/amateur-cyclist-robin-townsend-banned-for-four-years

Modafidil was detected, he claimed to have had his drink spiked, and named the suspect to UKAD

Full decision (redacted in parts)
http://www.ukad.org.uk/anti-doping-rule-violations/download-decision/a/6970

He failed to meet the admittedly tough level to have spiking seriously considered. There are certainly some discrepancies in his story.