Brits don't dope?

[thehog]

She also calls out her competitors when they get a bit too good. Just like Dawg. And Lance.

Appears to be a trait between these dopers. Call out others and question the governing body to take the spotlight off themselves.

The Dawg couldn’t be any more obvious. Be interesting to see how his form is this year. Will he tempt fate and continue to dope?

 

[bewildered]

the heredia story came from a german tv programme I think. He did inject EPO but there is no link to Bolt in that doc and I don't think one between Bolt and Heredia has been established, other than what Conte said but didn't back up

 

[blackcat]

Appears to be a trait between these dopers. Call out others and question the governing body to take the spotlight off themselves.

The Dawg couldn’t be any more obvious. Be interesting to see how his form is this year. Will he tempt fate and continue to dope?

misdirection and obfuscation, last refuge of the doperz and empire crew

 

[thehog]

misdirection and obfuscation, last refuge of the doperz and empire crew

There has been a bot retreat in recent days. They're not fighting like Lance

 

[The Hitch]

I remember a documentary making the link. It was focused on Heredia, and he even showed the journalist how to inject EPO. Try searching for something focused on him saying how easy it is to buy, smuggle and use. Thats what I remember at least.

Also, today is Radcliffe's birthday. 41 years young

The documentary made the link between bolt and herredia? Surely something more would have existed if that was the case.

 

[blackcat]

The documentary made the link between bolt and herredia? Surely something more would have existed if that was the case.

not necessarily. we assume that the media seek to expose athletes. this is a category error. they dont. see how long Armstrong could maintain the facade. I cant believe that Germany is much different. If they really wanted to take down Telekom, they could have done it when Riis won. It would not have been too difficult if you threw the resources at it like OConnell and Albergotti

 

[More Strides than Rides]

The documentary made the link between bolt and herredia? Surely something more would have existed if that was the case.

Well, apparently there was not link. Thanks bewildered. I may just be remembering a juxtaposition of the two.

As far as I can track down, the connection came from two loosely joined dots.

Victor Conte tweeted that boxer Juan Manual Marquez's strength coach, under the alias, Angel Hernandez, was actually Heredia. Heredia revealed that, yes, he was using the pseudonym, but was not doping Marquez.

Then on a different side of the coin, Alex Ariza (Paquiao's trainer), said before a fight between Paquiao and Marquez, that he heard Marquez was working with Bolt's trainer. The article quoting Ariza now links to some other topic listed as (http://www.philstar.com/sportsarticle.aspx?articleid=743461&publicationsubcategoryid)

So the argument: If the new coach is coming from Bolt's camp, and heredia is the new guy, then Heredia came from, and was/is in Bolt's group.

A Deadspin article really tied these two very loose ends together in a definative fashion, reporting the link as fact. But,:

I haven't talked to anybody about the guy. I didn't even know who he was until Victor Conte brought him up and it went all over the place. First of all, I don't know, maybe they can get a translator so they can understand this, but I've never said anything about Heredia. As a matter of fact, I didn't even know the guy's name until it was brought to my attention that there was people from Usain Bolt's training camp training him, which means more than one, not some fat Mexican in slippers, okay?

Bolt has worked with Mueller-Wolfhart, but he is cleans as far as we know.

 

[blackcat]

no chance bolt is clean. no chance. unless you consider froome and wiggins and contador to be clean

 

[Catwhoorg]

he beat 4 proven dopers in the final in 2012.

Blake Gatlin Gay and Powell all have positive tests.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

he beat 4 proven dopers in the final in 2012.

Blake Gatlin Gay and Powell all have positive tests.

He didn't beat them, he demolished them. Here's the docket:

-His teammates and countrymen are doping and failing tests.
-He was a phenom, but he still comes from nowhere every season. He Races rarely, except for some prep races in Jamaica and a big paycheck in the Diamond league. Last year he raced one 100m.
-There is a reason we don't see sprinters that big. Bodies that big are not supposed to be able to move that fast. The ligaments and tendons aren't supposed to bear that much force. Long muscles aren't supposed to generate power that quickly.
- Mueller-Wolfhart. Again, nothing indicative, but suspicious.
- 9.58...19.19.
- JADCO found to be corrupt as hell, and incompetent (at anti doping and hiding their corruption.
- the (very loose) Heredia link.
- Demolishing known dopers

am I missing anything?

I loved indulging, but I'll get back on topic now.

 

[The Hitch]

He didn't beat them, he demolished them. Here's the docket:

-His teammates and countrymen are doping and failing tests.
-He was a phenom, but he still comes from nowhere every season. He Races rarely, except for some prep races in Jamaica and a big paycheck in the Diamond league. Last year he raced one 100m.
-There is a reason we don't see sprinters that big. Bodies that big are not supposed to be able to move that fast. The ligaments and tendons aren't supposed to bear that much force. Long muscles aren't supposed to generate power that quickly.
- Mueller-Wolfhart. Again, nothing indicative, but suspicious.
- 9.58...19.19.
- JADCO found to be corrupt as hell, and incompetent (at anti doping and hiding their corruption.
- the (very loose) Heredia link.
- Demolishing known dopers

am I missing anything?

I loved indulging, but I'll get back on topic now.

And a number of his teammates have tested positive the jadco scandal revealed Jamaicans had no ooc tests prior to the Olympics. And the quote from my first post says that the guy training bolt was training dopers before.

While we are at it, I would be interested in clearing up Herr Wohlhart. Obviously with the people he has trained and the supposed miracle treatments he performs that are top secret, I don't believe for a second this guy isn't doing what Ferrari and Fuentes etc did. But is there anything concrete?

 

[The Hitch]

he beat 4 proven dopers in the final in 2012.

Blake Gatlin Gay and Powell all have positive tests.

While I agree with that, in other discussions you reject the above logic, so I don't understand how you can selectively apply it to bolt but not others?

 

[More Strides than Rides]

While we are at it, I would be interested in clearing up Herr Wohlhart. Obviously with the people he has trained and the supposed miracle treatments he performs that are top secret, I don't believe for a second this guy isn't doing what Ferrari and Fuentes etc did. But is there anything concrete?

He works with Actovegin. Derived from calf's blood it, like insulin, effecting glucose and aiding aerobic oxidation in muscles. It is used to super charge the healing/repair processes. In December 2000 to into 2001, there was talk of putting it on the banned list(Armstrong and team's use was a talking point), but IOC said more research was needed.

Everyone say he is a miracle doctor, with intuitive insight for every athlete's physiology, biomechanics and pathology. But, the treatment is always the same: Actovegin injection. He is a hammer, and every athlete's injury is a nail.

The most comprehensive article on M-Wmay be here, translated from German. (The authors wrote a snippet in English, but write tehy are worried about a missed translation being susceptible to a lawsuit.)

In Germany, injections are okay, but WADA says IV's are banned/require a TUE. Banned by the US's Food and Drug Administration, and several other countries. Foreign athletes seem to have a one-and-done appointment, rather than a continuing relationship. In 2004 olympics, 16 declared its use, mostly in impact sports. He works closely with players from several teams in Germany.

 

[blackcat]

acto acto acto acto acto acto what?

 

[wrinklyvet]

acto acto acto acto acto acto what?

As he said. There are various other articles about it. This is one: http://www.theroar.com.au/2012/02/22/actovegin-good-sinister-or-just-a-sham/

 

[blackcat]

As he said. There are various other articles about it. This is one: http://www.theroar.com.au/2012/02/22/actovegin-good-sinister-or-just-a-sham/

I was just echoing the response by Lance Armstrong after l'Equipe was rifling thru his trash and found actovegin

 

[wrinklyvet]

I was just echoing the response by Lance Armstrong after l'Equipe was rifling thru his trash and found actovegin

Oh! Good one.

 

[thehog]

Oh! Good one.

Point being if you’re going to dope one of your riders to win the Tour, pick someone with more grace than Froome. I mean, seriously? He’s a dork on a bike. You need someone who looks like they might have some talent when you dope them up. Dawg is just no good as a doper. Emanuele Sella had more panache!

 

[Catwhoorg]

While I agree with that, in other discussions you reject the above logic, so I don't understand how you can selectively apply it to bolt but not others?

Lets just say my opinion on this matter has shifted some what over say the last 12 months or so.

Its still not proof, but certainly can be considered evidence to some degree.

 

[Peter70]

tintin, asterix, same thing.

if you saw my reply for the tenor it was meant, i think the details mattered little. a little like for the sports scientists.

and they call economics the dull science.

They call it the "dismal" science.

Is is easy being a racist or do you have to work at it?

 

[ChewbaccaD]

I see Demigod Coggan showed up to riff on the topic. Not sure why he even bothers. Nobody dopes in his world, so it seems a pointless exercise for him to bother posting.

The good news is that his comment was deleted...as should all of his drivel.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Kind of the wrong thread, but it continues the conversation the way it has evolved.

I have a little cheatsheet (ugh) for the 100m finalists at Olympics, literally just 'finished' it this weekend going back to 1980, further gets really hard to get any significant data (to be honest 1980 is a push).

Athletes who served a ban in red, tested positive but no ban in yellow, and those with unquestionable links to doping in green.

So with Drummond getting his 8 year ban today, I get to move one from green to red.

14 years after his Olympic race, another cheat is gone from the sport.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Kind of the wrong thread, but it continues the conversation the way it has evolved.

I have a little cheatsheet (ugh) for the 100m finalists at Olympics, literally just 'finished' it this weekend going back to 1980, further gets really hard to get any significant data (to be honest 1980 is a push).

Athletes who served a ban in red, tested positive but no ban in yellow, and those with unquestionable links to doping in green.

So with Drummond getting his 8 year ban today, I get to move one from green to red.

14 years after his Olympic race, another cheat is gone from the sport.

Post a pic please?

 

[Catwhoorg]

Sure thing.

My standard for green 'unquestionable' is pretty high. Like take to a judge high.

 

[The Hitch]

He works with Actovegin. Derived from calf's blood it, like insulin, effecting glucose and aiding aerobic oxidation in muscles. It is used to super charge the healing/repair processes. In December 2000 to into 2001, there was talk of putting it on the banned list(Armstrong and team's use was a talking point), but IOC said more research was needed.

Everyone say he is a miracle doctor, with intuitive insight for every athlete's physiology, biomechanics and pathology. But, the treatment is always the same: Actovegin injection. He is a hammer, and every athlete's injury is a nail.

The most comprehensive article on M-Wmay be here, translated from German. (The authors wrote a snippet in English, but write tehy are worried about a missed translation being susceptible to a lawsuit.)

In Germany, injections are okay, but WADA says IV's are banned/require a TUE. Banned by the US's Food and Drug Administration, and several other countries. Foreign athletes seem to have a one-and-done appointment, rather than a continuing relationship. In 2004 olympics, 16 declared its use, mostly in impact sports. He works closely with players from several teams in Germany.

.thanks for the info. Good post.

Do you think he's using more serious doping though, epo etc?