Brits don't dope?

[wansteadimp]

Re: Re:

If you want to see the joke which is the Anglo-Saxon diaspora in sport check out Rugby. The French have been on the receiving end for a century from crooked refs. The famous '99 semi-final France v New Zealand was hilarious when a Welsh ref thought he was reading from the anti-French script only to be informed by an English assistant that the script was not being used and it was ok to stop penalising them. All this was inadvertently relayed by the ITV commentator John Taylor who could hear the miked up officials. The second half witnessed a bizarre transformation

Calling B.S. France are the most successful nation in the 6 nations post WWII.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_national_rugby_union_team#Six_Nations

They have also reach the final of the World Cup 3 times, as many as Australia, New Zealand and England and more than South Africa.

It's because they are good in spite of the refs. When they were thrown out of the old 5 nations many of their players turned to rugby league and started beating up Australia after the War. I recall Claude Spanghero interviewed on French TV regarded the refs in the 5 nations and he was not bitter but realistic in his assessment (unlike you). Lawrence Dallaglio admitted (live on ITV) that the French did not stand a chance in the final 4 years ago because of the South African ref.

Rubbish, there have been just as many incidences of allegation of ref bias against other teams, just look at Steve Walsh. I have little regard for two peoples' opinions, I've quoted results showing that France have arguably been the most successful post-war international Northern Hemisphere rugby union team and certainly would be had they won a World Cup. Are you claiming they would have been even more successful, outstripping NZ? I highly doubt that. The stats don't lie, France have been incredibly successful (even at a club level they have won more Heiniken Cups than any other nation and have more runners up medals). You've taken two people's opinions that go completely against the quoted statistics but believed them because they support your position.

The 2011 final was won by one point by a team who had not lost a game. In contrast the French had lost 2 pool games, including one against the eventual winners New Zealand, and had experienced a player revolt against their coach. It's hardly surprising France lost. Yes, Joubert was criticised but many came to the conclusion NZ still took their chances and France lost through lack of a decent kicker. He also left Rougerie on the field who should have been sent off.

And post, not poster or we're done here.

Not to mention the decisions the French have got, eg Wayne Barnes's shocker in Cardiff during the 2007 q/f that gifted France a place in the Semis.

 

[The Carrot]

Found this, it's a few years old so I hope it hasn't been posted before. Does anyone know of any other East German coaches now working with Team GB? Heiko Salzwedel for example.

http://sabotagetimes.com/football/team-gb-are-the-new-east-germany

 

[JimmyFingers]

Oh and Wendy had a very good point: this is an English speaking website which has a high proportion of Australian posters and English speakers, who watch cycling on Eurosport with English/Irish commentators or sport from the BBC, and so you end up with loads of comments about British media bias without demonstrating that other countries' media coverage of sport is ANY different, yet that assertion is frequently made.

And just to be clear, I'm not a member of the 'Empire crew' which suggests all of us still wandering around with Pith helmets, smoking pipes, taking potshots at fuzzy wuzzies all the while harumphing about Johnny Foreigner, or wogs if you like, since that term seems permissible. However if if you're not that patriotic, when you see constant mocking references, sly nicknames, and posters like Blackcat actively saying he's looking for a rise out of British poster its hard to sit there and let it go.

 

[VO2 Max]

I think it is 'Englishness' and not British-ness, the Anglos really do take themselves too seriously, especially fuelled by the Anglo-centric media in the UK. Generally speaking, Scots, Welsh etc will be largely ignored until they do well, then they are British, e.g. Andy Murray. The whole 'Jerusalem' theme mentioned above is quintisentially an English phenomenon, not 'British'.

Sorry, definitely not from down here in Wales. Chatting to someone the other day who's vaguely interested in cycling but not tremendously well informed, he was quite quickly prepared to accept Team Sky and therefore Wiggins and Froome were doped, but utterly horrified and incredulous when I said "almost certainly" to his question on Geraint Thomas. I suspect it's fairly universal tbh.

Not to mention the decisions the French have got, eg Wayne Barnes's shocker in Cardiff during the 2007 q/f that gifted France a place in the Semis.

and 2011's 'look away now' moment

 

[thehog]

Re:

Oh and Wendy had a very good point: this is an English speaking website which has a high proportion of Australian posters and English speakers, who watch cycling on Eurosport with English/Irish commentators or sport from the BBC, and so you end up with loads of comments about British media bias without demonstrating that other countries' media coverage of sport is ANY different, yet that assertion is frequently made.

And just to be clear, I'm not a member of the 'Empire crew' which suggests all of us still wandering around with Pith helmets, smoking pipes, taking potshots at fuzzy wuzzies all the while harumphing about Johnny Foreigner, or wogs if you like, since that term seems permissible. However if if you're not that patriotic, when you see constant mocking references, sly nicknames, and posters like Blackcat actively saying he's looking for a rise out of British poster its hard to sit there and let it go.

In 2009/10 on the Versus TV coverage in the US they had the “NISSAN LANCE TRACKER”. As the peloton was rolling along beautiful countryside, they had a huge arrow with a NISSAN logo and Lance’s head pointing to where he was in the peloton. Because it was very important to know with 132km to go in a stage than Lance was placed 34th! It was out of control. The coverage existed for no other reason than for Armstrong. Back in his 7 time Tour winning streak the Outdoor Life Network (OLN) showed the Tour on TV. It was dubbed “Only Lance Network” such was the saturation. The commentators in the host room were so green to cycling they couldn’t understand why Lance wasn’t winning the sprints in the first week. They would swap over to Phil & Paul who would read out letters from the fans, which centred all about Lance and about his secret training methods, attention to detail, reconning stages, Ullrich didn’t train hard enough, French were jealous, didn’t know how to win etc.

I don’t think EuroSport have got as bad as those days but ITV looks to be getting close along with the British media coverage.

Where the lines separate is that the Brits like the Americans back in the Lance days don’t have a very good hiostorical grasp on the sport and actually believe that riders win the GTs clean. The Italian coverage is fairly good. Especially when they start laughing a Froome. They simply don’t believe in him and imply they know the secret to his success. Which is obvious to anyone in European cycling that to finish Top 10 at the Tour you need to be on a program. That is fairly much accepted by all Europeans.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

However if if you're not that patriotic, when you see constant mocking references, sly nicknames, and posters like Blackcat actively saying he's looking for a rise out of British poster its hard to sit there and let it go.

What posters?

Oh and Wendy had a very good point: this is an English speaking website which has a high proportion of Australian posters and English speakers, who watch cycling on Eurosport with English/Irish commentators or sport from the BBC, and so you end up with loads of comments about British media bias without demonstrating that other countries' media coverage of sport is ANY different, yet that assertion is frequently made.

So what if other countries hypothetically weren't any worse. That makes it ok then?

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

Oh and Wendy had a very good point: this is an English speaking website which has a high proportion of Australian posters and English speakers, who watch cycling on Eurosport with English/Irish commentators or sport from the BBC, and so you end up with loads of comments about British media bias without demonstrating that other countries' media coverage of sport is ANY different, yet that assertion is frequently made.

And just to be clear, I'm not a member of the 'Empire crew' which suggests all of us still wandering around with Pith helmets, smoking pipes, taking potshots at fuzzy wuzzies all the while harumphing about Johnny Foreigner, or wogs if you like, since that term seems permissible. However if if you're not that patriotic, when you see constant mocking references, sly nicknames, and posters like Blackcat actively saying he's looking for a rise out of British poster its hard to sit there and let it go.

In 2009/10 on the Versus TV coverage in the US they had the “NISSAN LANCE TRACKER”. As the peloton was rolling along beautiful countryside, they had a huge arrow with a NISSAN logo and Lance’s head pointing to where he was in the peloton. Because it was very important to know with 132km to go in a stage than Lance was placed 34th! It was out of control. The coverage existed for no other reason than for Armstrong. Back in his 7 time Tour winning streak the Outdoor Life Network (OLN) showed the Tour on TV. It was dubbed “Only Lance Network” such was the saturation. The commentators in the host room were so green to cycling they couldn’t understand why Lance wasn’t winning the sprints in the first week. They would swap over to Phil & Paul who would read out letters from the fans, which centred all about Lance and about his secret training methods, attention to detail, reconning stages, Ullrich didn’t train hard enough, French were jealous, didn’t know how to win etc.

I don’t think EuroSport have got as bad as those days but ITV looks to be getting close along with the British media coverage.

Where the lines separate is that the Brits like the Americans back in the Lance days don’t have a very good hiostorical grasp on the sport and actually believe that riders win the GTs clean. The Italian coverage is fairly good. Especially when they start laughing a Froome. They simply don’t believe in him and imply they know the secret to his success. Which is obvious to anyone in European cycling that to finish Top 10 at the Tour you need to be on a program. That is fairly much accepted by all Europeans.

Good post hog.

 

[Savant12]

Of course, Brits dope! We invented every known thing to man during our Empire building days. Why else could we have dominated so strongly for a long time? Our entire navy was on PEDs all the time so as to stay alert and ready to fight at a starting gun's notice. We also invented sarcasm and the ability to take the piss out of oneself.

 

[del1962]

Of course, Brits dope! We invented every known thing to man during our Empire building days. Why else could we have dominated so strongly for a long time? Our entire navy was on PEDs all the time so as to stay alert and ready to fight at a starting gun's notice. We also invented sarcasm and the ability to take the piss out of oneself.

Our lads in 1944 must have been blood doping as how else did they single handedly take out the Wehrmacht

 

[bobbins]

Re: Re:

http://road.cc/content/news/164598-british-cyclist-dan-stevens-serve-21-month-doping-ban

British cyclist Dan Stevens is now the third Brit serving a racing suspension under anti-doping rules, having failed to supply a sample for an out-of-competition anti-doping test on January 29, 2014.

Did he deny access or do a Bassons?

(It doesn't say)

UK Anti-Doping said that Stevens gave “valuable anti-doping information” that justified a three-month shortening of the ban.

Stevens appealed against the decision this week, but later agreed to refrain from racing until November 1 2015.

What a tosser.

Why? For missing the test? For dobbing? Or for appealing?

He was obviously a target test OOC if he has subsequently provided some useful information. I think there's at least one positive coming out soon and maybe more.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Tosser for not giving the sample, clearly being guilty of something as he provided information and then appealing the ban.

ie appealing the ban. ffs.

 

[wansteadimp]

Of course, Brits dope! We invented every known thing to man during our Empire building days. Why else could we have dominated so strongly for a long time? Our entire navy was on PEDs all the time so as to stay alert and ready to fight at a starting gun's notice. We also invented sarcasm and the ability to take the piss out of oneself.

Our lads in 1944 must have been blood doping as how else did they single handedly take out the Wehrmacht

Nah it was the evil Russian dopers that won the war, our boys were clean

 

[bobbins]

Re:

Tosser for not giving the sample, clearly being guilty of something as he provided information and then appealing the ban.

ie appealing the ban. ffs.

Yeah, I don't think we're getting the whole story. Rather seems to be at least one pocket of doping activity being targeted in the south east, maybe he's helping with this. Appealing the ban is a bit rich but if Millar and all those other tossers can do it and get back in to the sport then why not!

 

[JimmyFingers]

Re: Re:

However if if you're not that patriotic, when you see constant mocking references, sly nicknames, and posters like Blackcat actively saying he's looking for a rise out of British poster its hard to sit there and let it go.

What posters?

Oh and Wendy had a very good point: this is an English speaking website which has a high proportion of Australian posters and English speakers, who watch cycling on Eurosport with English/Irish commentators or sport from the BBC, and so you end up with loads of comments about British media bias without demonstrating that other countries' media coverage of sport is ANY different, yet that assertion is frequently made.

So what if other countries hypothetically weren't any worse. That makes it ok then?

You're Polish living in the UK right? So of course you watch all the British sport coverage, and are constantly critical of it, rightly or wrongly, but it also means you have a very one-dimensional view of sports coverage in general. What was being asked for was some sort of example of other country's media treating their athletes differently, of which none were forthcoming.

Hope that clears it up old chap.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Re:

Santambrogio was a natural talent and would have been winning those races if everyone was clean. Not like those evil Brits.

There is not a shadow of a doubt in my mind that would disagree with this.

Good post Berns!

 

[wendybnt]

So let me get this straight.

During the Giro and the Vuelta, all Italian roadside fans were booing Nibali and Aru, because they know and accept they are dopers. Italian TV commentators were laughing at Aru and Nibali wins, openly on air, because they know they are dopers.

If the Italian fans and commentators didn't openly do this, then how do you know what they think?

Let's be clear, I think all GT winners dope. But I think a few of you here are total jokers
Yes, Brit-baiting is fun, we've all done it, but that is what it is.

 

[gooner]

Sure, there were no Spanish journalists clapping Contador as he arrived into his press conference on the day of his ban.

 

[wendybnt]

And the Prime Minister of Spain and the Spanish cycling fed didn't do anything to try and get Contador off.

 

[thehog]

Re:

Sure, there were no Spanish journalists clapping Contador as he arrived into his press conference on the day of his ban.

People can't be polite? What is the world coming to!

Until Davide Walshado writes 400 pages of Spanish BS about Contador and Saxo, I think we can safely say the Spanish are not as nearly as over the top as the Brits on Sky.

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

Re: Re:

Sure, there were no Spanish journalists clapping Contador as he arrived into his press conference on the day of his ban.

People can't be polite? What is the world coming to!

Until Davide Walshado writes 400 pages of Spanish BS about Contador and Saxo, I think we can safely say the Spanish are not as nearly as over the top as the Brits on Sky.

Walsh is British now?

 

[wendybnt]

That is more to do with success in cycling being a very recent phenomenon in the UK. When I first came here almost nobody even knew there had been Brits in the TdF.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Sure, there were no Spanish journalists clapping Contador as he arrived into his press conference on the day of his ban.

People can't be polite? What is the world coming to!

Until Davide Walshado writes 400 pages of Spanish BS about Contador and Saxo, I think we can safely say the Spanish are not as nearly as over the top as the Brits on Sky.

Walsh is British now?

Exactly. There is no Spanish version of Walsh. He is in a league of his own on hyperbole and made up BS

(Note the way I spelt Walsh's name, subtlety perhaps not your strong point?)

 

[JimmyFingers]

No the Spanish just cover up for the footballs and tennis stars. How many of the Fuentes clients have been named? And how many have been covered up?

 

[JimmyFingers]

Re: Re:

Sure, there were no Spanish journalists clapping Contador as he arrived into his press conference on the day of his ban.

People can't be polite? What is the world coming to!

Until Davide Walshado writes 400 pages of Spanish BS about Contador and Saxo, I think we can safely say the Spanish are not as nearly as over the top as the Brits on Sky.

Walsh is British now?

Exactly. There is no Spanish version of Walsh. He is in a league of his own on hyperbole and made up BS

Worth pointing out David Walsh isn't British? Or doesn't that matter?

 

[wendybnt]

Re: Re:

Sure, there were no Spanish journalists clapping Contador as he arrived into his press conference on the day of his ban.

People can't be polite? What is the world coming to!

Until Davide Walshado writes 400 pages of Spanish BS about Contador and Saxo, I think we can safely say the Spanish are not as nearly as over the top as the Brits on Sky.

Walsh is British now?

Exactly. There is no Spanish version of Walsh. He is in a league of his own on hyperbole and made up BS

(Note the way I spelt Walsh's name, subtlety perhaps not your strong point?)

Has David Cameron, or indeed any Brit PM, ever intervened to try and overturn a GB doping case?