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kwikki said:BYOP88 said:kwikki said:Can you point to which British track riders have appeared on any GT final GC in the last 10 years, other than Wiggins?
Or have you got some other criteria for "kicking ****"?
The guy everyone calls 'G'. So if those 2 can do it why haven't F/E the Aussie's, Kiwi's or Danish been able to get a rider to drop track weight(can't be that hard), maintain power(on the flat and ITT's) and climb as fast as guys who were mainlining EPO and win/top 15 a GT?
I'm guessing Sky and British cycling fans are hoping Kennaugh can do well in a GT too.
Those two can't do it. Geraint Thomas has never got in the GC of GT.
(Assuming you understand that GT= TdF, Giro, Vuelta. GC=top ten)
Wiggins is the only track rider to do so.
Benotti69 said:gazr99 said:Benotti69 said:gazr99 said:Wiggins and Thomas are highly regarded as 2 of the most talented riders to come from Britain, who are known to have exceptionally big engines. Not a massive leap to see that they could survive in the mountains once they lost their track weight and have always trained road as well as track. Thomas was part of the academy which was based in the Italian hills.
Big engines fed by epo makes for good climbing. Big engines dont make for good climbing they make for average climbing if the climb is consistent and a rider can get into a rythym.
Wiggins transformed from grupetto fodder to GT winner, with PEDs not because he lost some weight. Stop with the myths.
So you're basically saying Wiggins decided he won't take PED's when everyone was doing it, he will wait for when the media are more focused on drugs on the peleton to start taking them.
It would be a shame if It turns out Wiggins did take PED's but I honestly get the feeling he didn't. I think focusing all his efforts on winning the tour, losing that extra weight and with a strong team behind him who played the tactics very well as well as the route suiting his strengths, all contributed to his success.
As blackcat says, Wiggins was probably on a PED program for his track and what Cofidis gave him or expected of him was little. But once he decided to up his road ambitions well the Sky was the limit!
Wiggins did take PEDs, there is no doubt about it. You dont win a 3 week GT against a Ferrari client (Nibali) without PEDs no matter how much weight you lose.
The idea the people think riders can race every day for 3 weeks, without dope, give over!
gazr99 said:Well there is doubt, otherwise there would be evidence all over the place but all there is, is conspiracy theory opinions
gazr99 said:Benotti69 said:gazr99 said:Benotti69 said:gazr99 said:Wiggins and Thomas are highly regarded as 2 of the most talented riders to come from Britain, who are known to have exceptionally big engines. Not a massive leap to see that they could survive in the mountains once they lost their track weight and have always trained road as well as track. Thomas was part of the academy which was based in the Italian hills.
Big engines fed by epo makes for good climbing. Big engines dont make for good climbing they make for average climbing if the climb is consistent and a rider can get into a rythym.
Wiggins transformed from grupetto fodder to GT winner, with PEDs not because he lost some weight. Stop with the myths.
So you're basically saying Wiggins decided he won't take PED's when everyone was doing it, he will wait for when the media are more focused on drugs on the peleton to start taking them.
It would be a shame if It turns out Wiggins did take PED's but I honestly get the feeling he didn't. I think focusing all his efforts on winning the tour, losing that extra weight and with a strong team behind him who played the tactics very well as well as the route suiting his strengths, all contributed to his success.
As blackcat says, Wiggins was probably on a PED program for his track and what Cofidis gave him or expected of him was little. But once he decided to up his road ambitions well the Sky was the limit!
Wiggins did take PEDs, there is no doubt about it. You dont win a 3 week GT against a Ferrari client (Nibali) without PEDs no matter how much weight you lose.
The idea the people think riders can race every day for 3 weeks, without dope, give over!
Well there is doubt, otherwise there would be evidence all over the place but all there is, is conspiracy theory opinions
Benotti69 said:gazr99 said:Benotti69 said:gazr99 said:Benotti69 said:Wiggins and Thomas are highly regarded as 2 of the most talented riders to come from Britain, who are known to have exceptionally big engines. Not a massive leap to see that they could survive in the mountains once they lost their track weight and have always trained road as well as track. Thomas was part of the academy which was based in the Italian hills.
Big engines fed by epo makes for good climbing. Big engines dont make for good climbing they make for average climbing if the climb is consistent and a rider can get into a rythym.
Wiggins transformed from grupetto fodder to GT winner, with PEDs not because he lost some weight. Stop with the myths.
So you're basically saying Wiggins decided he won't take PED's when everyone was doing it, he will wait for when the media are more focused on drugs on the peleton to start taking them.
It would be a shame if It turns out Wiggins did take PED's but I honestly get the feeling he didn't. I think focusing all his efforts on winning the tour, losing that extra weight and with a strong team behind him who played the tactics very well as well as the route suiting his strengths, all contributed to his success.
As blackcat says, Wiggins was probably on a PED program for his track and what Cofidis gave him or expected of him was little. But once he decided to up his road ambitions well the Sky was the limit!
Wiggins did take PEDs, there is no doubt about it. You dont win a 3 week GT against a Ferrari client (Nibali) without PEDs no matter how much weight you lose.
The idea the people think riders can race every day for 3 weeks, without dope, give over!
Well there is doubt, otherwise there would be evidence all over the place but all there is, is conspiracy theory opinions
The Hitch said:There is evidence all over the place. That's why the overwhelming majority of cycling fans (80% in countries like Denmark) are convinced Froome is doping and why people like **** Pound and Ashenden are saying the sport is as bad as ever.
If people want to post factual untruths like - there is no evidence, well, all's the best to them
BYOP88 said:The guy everyone calls 'G'. So if those 2 can do it why haven't F/E the Aussie's, Kiwi's or Danish been able to get a rider to drop track weight(can't be that hard), maintain power(on the flat and ITT's) and climb as fast as guys who were mainlining EPO and win/top 15 a GT?
I'm guessing Sky and British cycling fans are hoping Kennaugh can do well in a GT too.
kwikki said:I think it's more a question of there being a smoking gun, and a body, but nobody has found the bullets yet.
Of course they are employing drugs. Why wouldn't they? Their livelihood depends on it, and as Blackcat demonstrated the odds of it all going horribly wrong are small. Armstrong was only outed because he and Bruyneel made a decision to not employ Landis. They would never have imagined that Landis would turn on them.
gazr99 said:Show us this hard evidence that Wiggins took PED's then
blackcat said:gazr99 said:Show us this hard evidence that Wiggins took PED's then
would you be a willing consumer of indirect evidence and understanding of human psychology and competitive Type A personalities thrown into the cauldron of the professional peloton where PEDs are the default position, where the Wattage improvement in the third week on the final ascent of the queen stage may be 20%, that marginal gains are not the rounding error on a comprehensive Ferrari program, and when the Olympic events in T&F and swimming and trackcycling are separated by a fraction of 1%. say... 0.03%.
indirect evidence, sentient brain, is compelling.
gazr99 said:blackcat said:gazr99 said:Show us this hard evidence that Wiggins took PED's then
would you be a willing consumer of indirect evidence and understanding of human psychology and competitive Type A personalities thrown into the cauldron of the professional peloton where PEDs are the default position, where the Wattage improvement in the third week on the final ascent of the queen stage may be 20%, that marginal gains are not the rounding error on a comprehensive Ferrari program, and when the Olympic events in T&F and swimming and trackcycling are separated by a fraction of 1%. say... 0.03%.
indirect evidence, sentient brain, is compelling.
kwikki said:I think it's more a question of there being a smoking gun, and a body, but nobody has found the bullets yet.
Of course they are employing drugs. Why wouldn't they? Their livelihood depends on it, and as Blackcat demonstrated the odds of it all going horribly wrong are small. Armstrong was only outed because he and Bruyneel made a decision to not employ Landis. They would never have imagined that Landis would turn on them.
gazr99 said:So much wrong there indirect says it all. You are stereotyping athletes with the same personality type and presuming there is definitely PED's in peleton to prove that there is PED's. To be fair when was Wiggins data seen for people to say there was a 20% wattage improvement
DirtyWorks said:kwikki said:I think it's more a question of there being a smoking gun, and a body, but nobody has found the bullets yet.
Of course they are employing drugs. Why wouldn't they? Their livelihood depends on it, and as Blackcat demonstrated the odds of it all going horribly wrong are small. Armstrong was only outed because he and Bruyneel made a decision to not employ Landis. They would never have imagined that Landis would turn on them.
It was really a culmination of years of corruption/burned athletes and cycling insiders. Had Armstrong just stayed retired McQuaid would still probably be President.
Define "smoking gun." There were countless demands for a "smoking gun" with Armstrong for years. And, to date, Armstrong has still never tested positive.
The cracks in the sporting fraud schemes in the UK are beginning to show. I think it's going to happen much slower than it did for Armstrong and the UCI, but, it will fall apart and the UCI will, again, be implicated.
blackcat said:gazr99 said:So much wrong there indirect says it all. You are stereotyping athletes with the same personality type and presuming there is definitely PED's in peleton to prove that there is PED's. To be fair when was Wiggins data seen for people to say there was a 20% wattage improvement
I was not talking about Brad, I was giving you a rule of thumb control sample, third week GT and Tour de France queen stage. might get 20% and time to exhaustion,
definitely NOT Brailsford marginal gains
kwikki said:I think it's more a question of there being a smoking gun, and a body, but nobody has found the bullets yet.
Of course they are employing drugs. Why wouldn't they? Their livelihood depends on it, and as Blackcat demonstrated the odds of it all going horribly wrong are small. Armstrong was only outed because he and Bruyneel made a decision to not employ Landis. They would never have imagined that Landis would turn on them.
samhocking said:The whole British Cycling / Team Sky success story is 25 years old this year. Who would have thought the tireless amount of work Keen did at Bishop Otter College on his research programme on the physical limitations to pursuit racing and he continued with Boardman from 1987 to 1992 to get that first ever British medal in an Olympic cycling event would then develop into the U23 Road Accademy Brailsford & Ellingworth started in 2004 and just 6 years later would start Team Sky in 2010 and 2 years after that a win in Tour de France with a pursuit rider originally coached by Keen using his methods and research programme on the physical limitations to pursuit racing? What a waste of 21 years, when all they needed to do was pop a few weight loss pills down Wiggins throat and rock up in a shiny bus and win Tour de France all along!
samhocking said:The whole British Cycling / Team Sky success story is 25 years old this year. Who would have thought the tireless amount of work Keen did at Bishop Otter College on his research programme on the physical limitations to pursuit racing and he continued with Boardman from 1987 to 1992 to get that first ever British medal in an Olympic cycling event would then develop into the U23 Road Accademy Brailsford & Ellingworth started in 2004 and just 6 years later would start Team Sky in 2010 and 2 years after that a win in Tour de France with a pursuit rider originally coached by Keen using his methods and research programme on the physical limitations to pursuit racing? What a waste of 21 years, when all they needed to do was pop a few weight loss pills down Wiggins throat and rock up in a shiny bus and win Tour de France all along!
gazr99 said:blackcat said:gazr99 said:So much wrong there indirect says it all. You are stereotyping athletes with the same personality type and presuming there is definitely PED's in peleton to prove that there is PED's. To be fair when was Wiggins data seen for people to say there was a 20% wattage improvement
I was not talking about Brad, I was giving you a rule of thumb control sample, third week GT and Tour de France queen stage. might get 20% and time to exhaustion,
definitely NOT Brailsford marginal gains
Yes 20% improvement would definitely raise eyebrows. However, it would have to be in context the latest tactic that seems to be bring implemented is training to be strong in the 3rd week not just survive. So staying quiet early on, conserving energy to be prepared for that final week
gazr99 said:blackcat said:gazr99 said:So much wrong there indirect says it all. You are stereotyping athletes with the same personality type and presuming there is definitely PED's in peleton to prove that there is PED's. To be fair when was Wiggins data seen for people to say there was a 20% wattage improvement
I was not talking about Brad, I was giving you a rule of thumb control sample, third week GT and Tour de France queen stage. might get 20% and time to exhaustion,
definitely NOT Brailsford marginal gains
Yes 20% improvement would definitely raise eyebrows. However, it would have to be in context the latest tactic that seems to be bring implemented is training to be strong in the 3rd week not just survive. So staying quiet early on, conserving energy to be prepared for that final week