Brits don't dope?

[pastronef]

https://twitter.com/petercossins/status/765853836066062336
‏@petercossins
French coaching dir Jacquet admits to "problem of leadership, of management" in @lequipe . Says team sprint trio were a team in name only


https://twitter.com/Doctor_Hutch/status/765855244412649472
‏@petercossins
Jacques apparently looking for a Shane Sutton-type figure as link between him and track coaches

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Quick Fact

If team GB can stay ahead of China, they'll be first smaller nation to gatecrash top two of olympic medal table since East Germany in 1988.

Let's remind ourselves how those clean living East Germans became such fantastic olympic champions.......

One thing that should be considered is the fact that GB spend a similar amount of money on sport as USA and China, unlike any other nation these days

Another thing that should be considered is GB's strikingly quick, recent improvement in athletics, cycling, gymnastics and swimming: sports where there is definitely a high amount of suspicion regarding doping.
That said, they have also improved a lot in other sports such as diving, judo and canoeing, which are more skill based and less endurance based.

So while doping possibly does have a hand, the facilities and support available to British athletes is very very good, and there are many reasons why GB are doing so well, which can't be attributed purely to any doping programmes

Also, and I don't know how to say this, but the other guys might be doping too.
Having a better illegally performance-enhancing programme = having a better legal one, too.

They are all doping. I have no doubts about that.

But after last nights Keirin final where UCI broke it's own rules to ensure Kenny was not DQ'd shows that the doping along with UCI backing one horse in the race makes it easier to win.

Now with UCI backing, what are TeamGB up to as well as doping? Motors? What other forms of cheating are taking place that UCI are allowing TeamGB to do but not other nations?

Prove it, I would be extremely grateful if you did. <snipped personal attack>.

I dont need to prove it. That you come to the clinic telling posters like me to prove it, means that deep inside you know they are doping/cheating. If you did not feel this the last thing you would be doing is looking in places like this.

I dont need to prove it. As sniper pointed out, sport and its history if full of cheating and corruption. The head of the Irish Olympic council has been arrested in Rio. Read about Juan Antonio Samaranch, former head of IOC, look at FIFA, read what Jack Robertson said about sport, look how a country dominates a sport, where the head of World Anti Doping Association is from the same country, etc etc etc WADA set up by IOC as PR....etc etc

You want an Armstrong type scenario? Well what about Festina scandal? Was that Armstrong like? What about Operation Peurto? Was that Armstrong like? There are plenty of people calling out the British Cycling team, just not in Britain.

I dont need to prove sport is corrupt and dirty. The evidence is there for those who are not blinded by fanboyism, nationalism and have a modicum of intelligence.

"Sport is seriously broken".

 

[thehog]

Re:

Amazing how much cheating the Brits are getting away with. Cavendish and Kenny should have both been disqualified for blatant cheating. Now I have seen some Brit in the high jump getting a white flag for knocking the bar over! Seems like the Brits have the judges in their pockets.

The white flag was for cease fire, the Brits have won, we all surrender to the Empire!

 

[Benotti69]

Matthew Pinsent 6:10 PM - 16 Aug 2016

That's unbelievable. Total domination.

Yes.

 

[Irondan]

Please control the urge to post personal questions and off topic comments...

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

Matt, for the n-th time, the evidence is all over the internet. It's called 'the history of prosport and doping'.
Do your homework. Nobody needs to show you anything.

It's like somebody saying "people will die if we go to war"
and you asking "Show me the evidence".
Well the evidence lies in the history of going to war.

It's one of the main reasons why education in history is so important.
A society without historical knowledge is bound to repeat old mistakes. again, and again, and again.

British journalism provides a compelling case in point.

Ok then let's use Armstrong as an example from history. Where are the urine tests? Where are the allegations from ex riders and employees? Where are the books? Give me the hard details and evidence of such a plan within BC and Sky and I will condemn them but until then you have nothing but pointless drivel. Just crying "DOPER!" at people who win serves little to no purpose.

Let me ask you a question. Do you think Paula doped?

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

Quick Fact

If team GB can stay ahead of China, they'll be first smaller nation to gatecrash top two of olympic medal table since East Germany in 1988.

Let's remind ourselves how those clean living East Germans became such fantastic olympic champions.......

One thing that should be considered is the fact that GB spend a similar amount of money on sport as USA and China, unlike any other nation these days

Another thing that should be considered is GB's strikingly quick, recent improvement in athletics, cycling, gymnastics and swimming: sports where there is definitely a high amount of suspicion regarding doping.
That said, they have also improved a lot in other sports such as diving, judo and canoeing, which are more skill based and less endurance based.

So while doping possibly does have a hand, the facilities and support available to British athletes is very very good, and there are many reasons why GB are doing so well, which can't be attributed purely to any doping programmes

Also, and I don't know how to say this, but the other guys might be doping too.
Having a better illegally performance-enhancing programme = having a better legal one, too.

They are all doping. I have no doubts about that.

But after last nights Keirin final where UCI broke it's own rules to ensure Kenny was not DQ'd shows that the doping along with UCI backing one horse in the race makes it easier to win.

Now with UCI backing, what are TeamGB up to as well as doping? Motors? What other forms of cheating are taking place that UCI are allowing TeamGB to do but not other nations?

To be fair Benno, to say you have no doubts that they are ALL doping is a bit much. I wouldn't be too surprised if they were all doping, and there can obviously be a degree of certainty with a number of them, but to overlap the 2 and suggest there is certainty for all, is not something I think we should do.

 

[TMP402]

Re:

Matthew Pinsent 6:10 PM - 16 Aug 2016

That's unbelievable. Total domination.

Yes.

I'm confused as to why Pinsent - who I'm guessing you believe to be a doper - would post something that so blatantly implies doping.

 

[littlepinky]

Re: Re:

Well, the keirin race was such an obvious example of the big guys getting away with murder that it's not even funny. Zero out of three pretty straightforward DQs were handed out.

I agree, Kenny and Awang should have been DQed in the first start, Eilers in the 2nd start. However, once they'd allowed Kenny and Awang to race again, any subsequent restart had to allow all the riders to start. This has nothing to do with doping though!

It sort of does, though? If you bend some of the rules, it's more likely you bend any rules that need to be bent.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Red Coats doping? No way.

Total domination in a discipline proof of doping? No way. :surprised:

Sad that you guys don't believe in miracles.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Quick Fact

If team GB can stay ahead of China, they'll be first smaller nation to gatecrash top two of olympic medal table since East Germany in 1988.

Let's remind ourselves how those clean living East Germans became such fantastic olympic champions.......

One thing that should be considered is the fact that GB spend a similar amount of money on sport as USA and China, unlike any other nation these days

Another thing that should be considered is GB's strikingly quick, recent improvement in athletics, cycling, gymnastics and swimming: sports where there is definitely a high amount of suspicion regarding doping.
That said, they have also improved a lot in other sports such as diving, judo and canoeing, which are more skill based and less endurance based.

So while doping possibly does have a hand, the facilities and support available to British athletes is very very good, and there are many reasons why GB are doing so well, which can't be attributed purely to any doping programmes

Also, and I don't know how to say this, but the other guys might be doping too.
Having a better illegally performance-enhancing programme = having a better legal one, too.

They are all doping. I have no doubts about that.

But after last nights Keirin final where UCI broke it's own rules to ensure Kenny was not DQ'd shows that the doping along with UCI backing one horse in the race makes it easier to win.

Now with UCI backing, what are TeamGB up to as well as doping? Motors? What other forms of cheating are taking place that UCI are allowing TeamGB to do but not other nations?

To be fair Benno, to say you have no doubts that they are ALL doping is a bit much. I wouldn't be too surprised if they were all doping, and there can obviously be a degree of certainty with a number of them, but to overlap the 2 and suggest there is certainty for all, is not something I think we should do.

I just cannot imagine a scenario where a team would want 1 or 2 riders who refuse to dope. Not good for business.

Not good for team spirit. Not good for trust as those who dope wont trust those who dont and vice versa. What with sponsorship money hard to come by, teams need results and performances.

When i look at teams and who they are run by and the DSs all i see are people who had careers with doping. What do you think a Sean Yates, a Kim Anderson, Vino, Martinelli, Lefevre, Saiz or Unzué is going to day to a stagiare who says he wont dope? Laugh in his face! Get with the program or a get a real job!

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Matthew Pinsent 6:10 PM - 16 Aug 2016

That's unbelievable. Total domination.

Yes.

I'm confused as to why Pinsent - who I'm guessing you believe to be a doper - would post something that so blatantly implies doping.

Pinset rowed for an East German coach.

Pinsent actually is using 'unbelievable' in the same way TV commentators use it, not the true meaning, but as hyperbole.

I thought it was comical that Pinsent tweeted such a thing. :lol:

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

Matthew Pinsent 6:10 PM - 16 Aug 2016

That's unbelievable. Total domination.

Yes.

I'm confused as to why Pinsent - who I'm guessing you believe to be a doper - would post something that so blatantly implies doping.

Pinsent doesn't seem to be implying doping.

But re him, i never really cared or wondered whether he doped or not.
But I remember last year pinsent was defending paula on twitter. By then, everyone in sport at the bbc would have known full well who the athlete with the super injunctin was. I find it difficult to believe a clean athlete would be anything but furious with her for her dishnoesty, let alone defend her publicaly. What was even funnier was Pinsent said he believed her because of science. What science? Oh, what a coincidence, after 4 hours of back and forth tweets, the moment he is asked that he decides he's going to call it a day.

 

[rainman]

Yes Chris Hoy had a habit of uttering the word 'science' with emphasis as if that explains everything. That said Hoy found himself in the unenviable position of having to go along with the ludicrous hype. For me his facial expressions at yet another ridiculous performance said it all - not a believer.

 

[doolols]

I think I need to buy shares in tin foil. So many hats being made here.

I'm sure there were political implications of Kenny being DQ'd last night, but the real reason was that there was no conclusive proof they overtook the durny bike. Yes, from one particular angle it looked like they overtook it, but it was marginal As the British coach said, there was no finish line camera at the point where the durny comes off, and had Kenny been DQ'd, there would have been a huge protest and appeal. Not good for business. And, of course, allowing Kenny to restart meant they couldn't kick the German off for an even more clear infringement. So, all in all, a bit of a farce. But conspiracy? Nah.

And the Cav thing? Riders in the race recognised it wasn't deliberate. It's only non-riders in the Twittersphere that were howling for Cav to be DQ'd.

It's strange that so many people are convinced that Brits are doping. THEY HAVE PROOF! And that proof is - results. Which, of course, isn't proof, otherwise they'd be done for it. As someone said upthread, there has been nothing from riders, ex-riders, sacked riders, anyone, to say that GB / Sky are doping. Nothing. Zilch. Nada. I suppose the reason for that is that ... CONSPIRACY! Everyone is involved - UCI, Team GB, Sky, WADA, UKADA, yada yada yada.

Or, maybe, they really aren't doping.

 

[TMP402]

Re: Re:

Matthew Pinsent 6:10 PM - 16 Aug 2016

That's unbelievable. Total domination.

Yes.

I'm confused as to why Pinsent - who I'm guessing you believe to be a doper - would post something that so blatantly implies doping.

Pinset rowed for an East German coach.

Pinsent actually is using 'unbelievable' in the same way TV commentators use it, not the true meaning, but as hyperbole.

I thought it was comical that Pinsent tweeted such a thing. :lol:

It seems awfully careless.

 

[doolols]

Re: Re:

Are YADA another anti-doping agency?

I really hope so :lol: :lol:

 

[King Boonen]

I don't think anyone in the clinic has claimed they have proof of doping. A huge amount of evidence yes, but not proof.

 

[doolols]

Re: Re:

Matthew Pinsent 6:10 PM - 16 Aug 2016

That's unbelievable. Total domination.

Yes.

I'm confused as to why Pinsent - who I'm guessing you believe to be a doper - would post something that so blatantly implies doping.

Pinset rowed for an East German coach.

Pinsent actually is using 'unbelievable' in the same way TV commentators use it, not the true meaning, but as hyperbole.

I thought it was comical that Pinsent tweeted such a thing. :lol:

It seems awfully careless.

Or perfectly innocent, when viewed from outside the rarified atmosphere of The Clinic.

 

[doolols]

Re:

I don't think anyone in the clinic has claimed they have proof of doping. A huge amount of evidence yes, but not proof.

Evidence in the form of results isn't really evidence of doping. It's evidence of results.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

I don't think anyone in the clinic has claimed they have proof of doping. A huge amount of evidence yes, but not proof.

Evidence in the form of results isn't really evidence of doping. It's evidence of results.

Yeah... There is a fair bit more than results in here if you read about.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

I don't think anyone in the clinic has claimed they have proof of doping. A huge amount of evidence yes, but not proof.

Evidence in the form of results isn't really evidence of doping. It's evidence of results.

Yeah... There is a fair bit more than results in here if you read about.

Yes, there is lots of evidence against riders, lots and not just British ones.

Results merely bring to attention the riders and who they work with, their transformations etc etc

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Or perfectly innocent, when viewed from outside the rarified atmosphere of The Clinic.

No need to visit the clinic if you just come to scoff at those who post here.

 

[BullsFan22]

I am not sure if this has a place here, but since it involves British athletes, I'll summarize:

Yesterday in one of the 1500m men's heats, Filip Ingebritsen, a Norwegian, who along with his older brother Henrik, are two of the medal contenders. Originally, Ingebritsen qualified from his heat, but the Brits filed a protest and Ingebritsen was DQ'd for obstruction.

I haven't seen actual footage of the race, but these 1500m heats tend to be pretty frantic and tight. It's actually miraculous that more falls, obstructions, and protests/relegations or outright disqualifications don't occur. That said, Ingebritsen's dq must have been obvious, though it took a protest from the Brits for the official result to take place. Anyone see that particular race? Do the Brits hold power there as well? Lord Coe?

 

[Winnats]

https://twitter.com/petercossins/status/765853836066062336
‏@petercossins
French coaching dir Jacquet admits to "problem of leadership, of management" in @lequipe . Says team sprint trio were a team in name only


https://twitter.com/Doctor_Hutch/status/765855244412649472
‏@petercossins
Jacques apparently looking for a Shane Sutton-type figure as link between him and track coaches

I see this post was studiously ignored, despite providing good evidence why the French team was so far off the pace. Certainly Pervis was nowhere near his 2013 'peak' and mostly looked like someone had shot his cat.