Brits don't dope?

[The Carrot]

Can't help thinking we're getting into wrestling territory with some of the Brit performances and background stories.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

East-Germany's doping program seems amateurish compared to what is happening currently in the UK. Very disturbing stuff.

If that is the case then maybe you could explain how East Germany had so much more success than the UK are having now? Or maybe you just have no idea what you are talking about?

Are GB not second in the medal table? East Germany never finished higher than 2nd (3 times).

Did East Germany dominate 1 sport as much as TeamGB dominated track cycling in Rio?

 

[Singer01]

Why would Vogel call out team GB when she won? 'they are doping, i beat them, but erm, i'm not doping'!!!

 

[TheSpud]

Re:

...those lovely brownlee brothers....showing one can compete clean...and still

...win by a mile....................

Mark L

Winning by a mile (literally) in Triathlon isn't that far in fairness, even at top level. I once saw a Triathlon on Ch4 (I think it was one in Wales) where the winner overtook the second place in the last 300 metres. That's like a photo finish!

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

...those lovely brownlee brothers....showing one can compete clean...and still

...win by a mile....................

Mark L

Winning by a mile (literally) in Triathlon isn't that far in fairness, even at top level. I once saw a Triathlon on Ch4 (I think it was one in Wales) where the winner overtook the second place in the last 300 metres. That's like a photo finish!

No one in Triathlon dopes. The testing is too rigourous. Ask Mr Armstrong

gourdonstoon................. :lol:

 

[TheSpud]

Re: Re:

East-Germany's doping program seems amateurish compared to what is happening currently in the UK. Very disturbing stuff.

If that is the case then maybe you could explain how East Germany had so much more success than the UK are having now? Or maybe you just have no idea what you are talking about?

Are GB not second in the medal table? East Germany never finished higher than 2nd (3 times).

Did East Germany dominate 1 sport as much as TeamGB dominated track cycling in Rio?

Track & Field? I know that's not one sport but Track Cycling is many events, so you need to make a fair comparison. Maybe Shotput, Hammer, Discus? I don't know the results for GDR for those - just hazarding a guess.

 

[TheSpud]

Re: Re:

...those lovely brownlee brothers....showing one can compete clean...and still

...win by a mile....................

Mark L

Winning by a mile (literally) in Triathlon isn't that far in fairness, even at top level. I once saw a Triathlon on Ch4 (I think it was one in Wales) where the winner overtook the second place in the last 300 metres. That's like a photo finish!

No one in Triathlon dopes. The testing is too rigourous. Ask Mr Armstrong

gourdonstoon................. :lol:

What has this got to do with Armstrong or Gordonstoun (at least spell it correctly)?

 

[Vladivar]

Re: Re:

... Gordonstoun (at least spell it correctly)?

I assume it was because 28% of the GB team attended Private schools.

Living in Manchester i do know Private schools have great facilities for sport where as state schools were all forced to flog off their playing fields.

Perhaps

 

[TheSpud]

Re: Re:

... Gordonstoun (at least spell it correctly)?

I assume it was because 28% of the GB team attended Private schools.

Living in Manchester i do know Private schools have great facilities for sport where as state schools were all forced to flog off their playing fields.

Perhaps

There is a big difference between mainstream independent schools (which I admit a lot of the GB team attended) and expensive public schools like Gordonstoun. However, there is another poster here who uses Gordonstoun as a xenophobic angle (in my opinion, as well as others) - it wouldn't be great to have another one.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

East-Germany's doping program seems amateurish compared to what is happening currently in the UK. Very disturbing stuff.

If that is the case then maybe you could explain how East Germany had so much more success than the UK are having now? Or maybe you just have no idea what you are talking about?

Are GB not second in the medal table? East Germany never finished higher than 2nd (3 times).

Did East Germany dominate 1 sport as much as TeamGB dominated track cycling in Rio?

GDR:

1976 Montreal Gold 40 Silver 25 Bronze 25 Total 90

1988 Seoul Gold 37 Silver 35 Bronze 30 Total 102

GB 2016 (current):

Gold 21 Silver 21 Bronze 13 Total 55

Australia Sydney 2000:

Australia Gold 16 Silver 25 Bronze 17 Total 58

Unified Germany 2000:

Germany Gold 13 Silver 17 Bronze 26 Total 56

 

[thehog]

GDR Medals by Sport:

Gold Silver Bronze Total

Athletics 38 36 35 109
Swimming 38 32 22 92
Rowing 33 7 8 48
Canoeing 14 7 9 30
Gymnastics 6 13 17 36
Cycling 6 6 4 16
Boxing 5 2 6 13
Shooting 3 8 5 16
Wrestling 2 3 2 7
Diving 2 2 3 7
Sailing 2 2 2 6
Weightlifting 1 4 6 11
Judo 1 2 6 9
Football 1 1 1 3
Handball 1 1 1 3
Volleyball 0 2 0 2
Fencing 0 1 0 1

 

[Lyon]

Re: Re:

... Gordonstoun (at least spell it correctly)?

I assume it was because 28% of the GB team attended Private schools.

Living in Manchester i do know Private schools have great facilities for sport where as state schools were all forced to flog off their playing fields.

Perhaps

There is a big difference between mainstream independent schools (which I admit a lot of the GB team attended) and expensive public schools like Gordonstoun. However, there is another poster here who uses Gordonstoun as a xenophobic angle (in my opinion, as well as others) - it wouldn't be great to have another one.

It is not xenophobic but simply a ruse against the (really surprisingly large) amount of brits here with no sense of humour. A brit with no sense of humour sounds almost like an oxymoron, except when it comes to sport.

 

[buckle]

GDR Medals by Sport:

Gold Silver Bronze Total

Athletics 38 36 35 109
Swimming 38 32 22 92
Rowing 33 7 8 48
Canoeing 14 7 9 30
Gymnastics 6 13 17 36
Cycling 6 6 4 16
Boxing 5 2 6 13
Shooting 3 8 5 16
Wrestling 2 3 2 7
Diving 2 2 3 7
Sailing 2 2 2 6
Weightlifting 1 4 6 11
Judo 1 2 6 9
Football 1 1 1 3
Handball 1 1 1 3
Volleyball 0 2 0 2
Fencing 0 1 0 1

Swimming is the next target.

 

[Cannibal72]

Re: Re:

... Gordonstoun (at least spell it correctly)?

I assume it was because 28% of the GB team attended Private schools.

Living in Manchester i do know Private schools have great facilities for sport where as state schools were all forced to flog off their playing fields.

Perhaps

There is a big difference between mainstream independent schools (which I admit a lot of the GB team attended) and expensive public schools like Gordonstoun. However, there is another poster here who uses Gordonstoun as a xenophobic angle (in my opinion, as well as others) - it wouldn't be great to have another one.

Depends on the sport. Rowing, for example, is dominated by private schools for class and historical reasons. A sport like athletics, on the other hand, is very much not. UK Sport & lottery funding entrenches this: sports like rowing, where there are lots of medals available and British athletes are very successful - partially because of the facilities available to them - have millions poured into them. Basketball- popular in inner-cities and among minorities - has absolutely no funding. At all.

Oh, and blackcat's Gordonstoun thing is in no way xenophobic. It's playing on the British stereotype, one common throughout the media and popular culture, of discipline, honour, etc.It's not even unique to Britain. It's (self-consciously) an imitation of the traditional values attributed to Rome and Sparta.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

East-Germany's doping program seems amateurish compared to what is happening currently in the UK. Very disturbing stuff.

If that is the case then maybe you could explain how East Germany had so much more success than the UK are having now? Or maybe you just have no idea what you are talking about?

Are GB not second in the medal table? East Germany never finished higher than 2nd (3 times).

Did East Germany dominate 1 sport as much as TeamGB dominated track cycling in Rio?

Track & Field? I know that's not one sport but Track Cycling is many events, so you need to make a fair comparison. Maybe Shotput, Hammer, Discus? I don't know the results for GDR for those - just hazarding a guess.

Why not research it rather than hazarding guesses?

Blackcat's gourdonstoon is humour.

 

[TheSpud]

Re: Re:

East-Germany's doping program seems amateurish compared to what is happening currently in the UK. Very disturbing stuff.

If that is the case then maybe you could explain how East Germany had so much more success than the UK are having now? Or maybe you just have no idea what you are talking about?

Are GB not second in the medal table? East Germany never finished higher than 2nd (3 times).

Did East Germany dominate 1 sport as much as TeamGB dominated track cycling in Rio?

Track & Field? I know that's not one sport but Track Cycling is many events, so you need to make a fair comparison. Maybe Shotput, Hammer, Discus? I don't know the results for GDR for those - just hazarding a guess.

Why not research it rather than hazarding guesses?

Blackcat's gourdonstoon is humour.

So would me saying that Italian bikes only have reverse gears be humour?

 

[TheSpud]

Re: Re:

East-Germany's doping program seems amateurish compared to what is happening currently in the UK. Very disturbing stuff.

If that is the case then maybe you could explain how East Germany had so much more success than the UK are having now? Or maybe you just have no idea what you are talking about?

Are GB not second in the medal table? East Germany never finished higher than 2nd (3 times).

Did East Germany dominate 1 sport as much as TeamGB dominated track cycling in Rio?

Track & Field? I know that's not one sport but Track Cycling is many events, so you need to make a fair comparison. Maybe Shotput, Hammer, Discus? I don't know the results for GDR for those - just hazarding a guess.

Why not research it rather than hazarding guesses?

Blackcat's gourdonstoon is humour.

Why don't you research it? You're the one who asked the question.

 

[Fergoose]

Re: Re:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/17/olympics-hysteria-britain-turned-soviet-team-gb

Interesting article from Simon Jenkins of the Guardian - stops short of accusing Britain of widespread doping but at least it's a sceptical article for once

He his right about the BBC, it is really over the top, it's sickening tbh.

It's unwatchable. Thankfully all their streams on the iplayer appear to use international feeds. I've watched loads of the Olympics but haven't watched any of it live on the BBC as I increasingly consider our state broadcaster to be a propaganda tool. I think they've basically been warned by the Tories that if they don't adopt jingoism and softer coverage of the government then they'll be castrated.

Despite all that I share the Guardian opinion above that the success is likely the result of throwing absurd quantities of money at what are essentially niche sports where there isn't a massive strength in depth in competition. It's notable the the UK hasn't done particularly great at swimming, one of the sports with real international strength in depth. This is despite swimming being a discipline consistently ripe with state sponsored doping controversies (including China and Russia this year).

 

[Irondan]

Spud and Benotti, please continue your off topic conversation in a PM.

TIA

 

[buckle]

Re: Re:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/17/olympics-hysteria-britain-turned-soviet-team-gb

Interesting article from Simon Jenkins of the Guardian - stops short of accusing Britain of widespread doping but at least it's a sceptical article for once

He his right about the BBC, it is really over the top, it's sickening tbh.

It's unwatchable. Thankfully all their streams on the iplayer appear to use international feeds. I've watched loads of the Olympics but haven't watched any of it live on the BBC as I increasingly consider our state broadcaster to be a propaganda tool. I think they've basically been warned by the Tories that if they don't adopt jingoism and softer coverage of the government then they'll be castrated.

Despite all that I share the Guardian opinion above that the success is likely the result of throwing absurd quantities of money at what are essentially niche sports where there isn't a massive strength in depth in competition. It's notable the the UK hasn't done particularly great at swimming, one of the sports with real international strength in depth. This is despite swimming being a discipline consistently ripe with state sponsored doping controversies (including China and Russia this year).

Don't worry they are getting ready to "open the biscuit tin" for the swimmers.

 

[Andy262]

Re: Re:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/17/olympics-hysteria-britain-turned-soviet-team-gb

Interesting article from Simon Jenkins of the Guardian - stops short of accusing Britain of widespread doping but at least it's a sceptical article for once

He his right about the BBC, it is really over the top, it's sickening tbh.

It's unwatchable. Thankfully all their streams on the iplayer appear to use international feeds. I've watched loads of the Olympics but haven't watched any of it live on the BBC as I increasingly consider our state broadcaster to be a propaganda tool. I think they've basically been warned by the Tories that if they don't adopt jingoism and softer coverage of the government then they'll be castrated.

Despite all that I share the Guardian opinion above that the success is likely the result of throwing absurd quantities of money at what are essentially niche sports where there isn't a massive strength in depth in competition. It's notable the the UK hasn't done particularly great at swimming, one of the sports with real international strength in depth. This is despite swimming being a discipline consistently ripe with state sponsored doping controversies (including China and Russia this year).

Completely agree. The BBC has jumped the shark in it's ludicrous cheerleading. I too agree with Simon Jenkins. Britain's dope is money. At the same time as it buys medals at £5m a throw, our Government cavalry charges the race to the bottom in nearly every other walk of life.

Don't get me wrong, I'm proud of Jason, Laura and the rest. But their success conceals a price that much of the country wilfully fails to see.

 

[TheSpud]

Cyclist Anna Meares has joined a growing number of Olympic athletes and coaches demanding to know how Team Great Britain got so good.

After a disappointing 10th place result in the individual track sprint in Rio on Monday, Meares, who is Australia's Olympic captain, turned her attention to the over-performing British cyclists.

They've done exceedingly well in Brazil, and Meares said it wasn't just the Australian team who had questions about the British

'The British are just phenomenal when it comes to the Olympic Games, and we're all just scratching our heads going 'how do they lift so much when in so many events they have not even been in contention in the world championships?,' she was quoted as saying.

'They've got it together, and to be honest I'm not exactly sure what they've got together.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3742770/Australian-cyclist-Anna-Meares-questions-British-team-Rio-got-good.html#ixzz4HVSByKYe

Some of the best track cyclists in the World are starting to cal it like they see it. People like Anna Meares and Vogels know their Track onions. That's all they do, that's all they've ever done and they know what's what. They've forgotten more about Track cycling than the peeps who accuse them of having sour grapes. When people of that kind of experience speak, we should listen.

They may know their onions, but the one thing they really know is their grapes - the sour ones. They've been beaten fair and square - again.

 

[Benotti69]

Cyclist Anna Meares has joined a growing number of Olympic athletes and coaches demanding to know how Team Great Britain got so good.

After a disappointing 10th place result in the individual track sprint in Rio on Monday, Meares, who is Australia's Olympic captain, turned her attention to the over-performing British cyclists.

They've done exceedingly well in Brazil, and Meares said it wasn't just the Australian team who had questions about the British

'The British are just phenomenal when it comes to the Olympic Games, and we're all just scratching our heads going 'how do they lift so much when in so many events they have not even been in contention in the world championships?,' she was quoted as saying.

'They've got it together, and to be honest I'm not exactly sure what they've got together.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3742770/Australian-cyclist-Anna-Meares-questions-British-team-Rio-got-good.html#ixzz4HVSByKYe

Some of the best track cyclists in the World are starting to cal it like they see it. People like Anna Meares and Vogels know their Track onions. That's all they do, that's all they've ever done and they know what's what. They've forgotten more about Track cycling than the peeps who accuse them of having sour grapes. When people of that kind of experience speak, we should listen.

They may know their onions, but the one thing they really know is their grapes - the sour ones. They've been beaten fair and square - again.

How can you know that? Fair and square! How?

Iain Dyer caught lying about teams not having same form as World championships when most performed better!

Take off the national health specs for a moment!

 

[TheSpud]

Cyclist Anna Meares has joined a growing number of Olympic athletes and coaches demanding to know how Team Great Britain got so good.

After a disappointing 10th place result in the individual track sprint in Rio on Monday, Meares, who is Australia's Olympic captain, turned her attention to the over-performing British cyclists.

They've done exceedingly well in Brazil, and Meares said it wasn't just the Australian team who had questions about the British

'The British are just phenomenal when it comes to the Olympic Games, and we're all just scratching our heads going 'how do they lift so much when in so many events they have not even been in contention in the world championships?,' she was quoted as saying.

'They've got it together, and to be honest I'm not exactly sure what they've got together.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3742770/Australian-cyclist-Anna-Meares-questions-British-team-Rio-got-good.html#ixzz4HVSByKYe

Some of the best track cyclists in the World are starting to cal it like they see it. People like Anna Meares and Vogels know their Track onions. That's all they do, that's all they've ever done and they know what's what. They've forgotten more about Track cycling than the peeps who accuse them of having sour grapes. When people of that kind of experience speak, we should listen.

They may know their onions, but the one thing they really know is their grapes - the sour ones. They've been beaten fair and square - again.

How can you know that? Fair and square! How?

I don't know that, i'll give you that. But you don't know that it isn't fair and square either.

I have just as much right to say it as you have to query it.

 

[TheSpud]

Iain Dyer caught lying about teams not having same form as World championships when most performed better!

That is not proof that they are doping at all. That is proof that they are playing the media and winding the other teams up.

What the hell do you expect them to say? Do you expect them to blurt out all their secrets?