Brits don't dope?

[buckle]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/aug/21/great-britain-sporting-superpower-rio-olympic-medal-haul

Peaty's miraculous transformation was quick, dirty and cheap.

 

[buckle]

Re:

Granted

It represents a concerted effort to defraud on an hitherto unprecedented scale. This is Armstrong on, ahem, steroids.

with lance we know responsibility......a small team

team GB won medals across a wide range of disciplines....only event dominated was track cycling

...so do you think all competitors/coaches/management worked in collusion?

Mark L

A culture of corruption prevails across many sports notably cycling and rowing.

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re:

oh! culture of corruption doesn't sound like.............................

.....concerted effort to defraud on an hitherto unprecedented scale.

Mark L

It would have to be across nineteen different sports (in which GB won a medal or medals of some sort) or fifteen sports (in which GB won a gold or golds) for buckle to be right.

 

[buckle]

Re:

oh! culture of corruption doesn't sound like.............................

.....concerted effort to defraud on an hitherto unprecedented scale.

Mark L

Well, I wouldn't call Team Armstrong small. It was a massive fraud involving a cast of hundreds all receiving a kickback from the project. Very few of them knew it was fraudulent and therein lay the power of the scam. Their ignorance was wilful.

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re: Re:

oh! culture of corruption doesn't sound like.............................

.....concerted effort to defraud on an hitherto unprecedented scale.

Mark L

Well, I wouldn't call Team Armstrong small. It was a massive fraud involving a cast of hundreds all receiving a kickback from the project. Very few of them knew it was fraudulent and therein lay the power of the scam.

Armstrong's organisation was not a large disparate collection of athletes from different sports. I sometimes wonder if his wonderful example has to be put before us every time someone wins something, and for ever and a day.

 

[buckle]

Re: Re:

oh! culture of corruption doesn't sound like.............................

.....concerted effort to defraud on an hitherto unprecedented scale.

Mark L

Well, I wouldn't call Team Armstrong small. It was a massive fraud involving a cast of hundreds all receiving a kickback from the project. Very few of them knew it was fraudulent and therein lay the power of the scam.

Armstrong's organisation was not a large disparate collection of athletes from different sports. I sometimes wonder if his wonderful example has to be put before us every time someone wins something, and for ever and a day.

At least five of these sports: Athletics, rowing, cycling, swimming and tennis are a total joke. Not corrupt but a total joke.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

oh! culture of corruption doesn't sound like.............................

.....concerted effort to defraud on an hitherto unprecedented scale.

Mark L

Well, I wouldn't call Team Armstrong small. It was a massive fraud involving a cast of hundreds all receiving a kickback from the project. Very few of them knew it was fraudulent and therein lay the power of the scam.

Armstrong's organisation was not a large disparate collection of athletes from different sports. I sometimes wonder if his wonderful example has to be put before us every time someone wins something, and for ever and a day.

No it doesn't, just search the coaches your athletes work with. That should point you down the road of your athletes doping.

 

[Archibald]

Re: Re:

Sure, some Brits dope, as everyone does but to suggest the British rise is down to a state sponsorship sponsored doping programme is laughable. Financial doping more like.

Exactly. We've gone from a situation where Olympic participants were amateur, doing a 9 to 5 job with no funding, to one where they get 30 to 40 grand to do their sport exclusively, whilst doing it within a massively enhanced infrastructure.

It's financial doping for sure.

Yeah so now the Brits are pros and the rest are still 9-5 ers!!!

Of course it is like this.

The track cyclists all have to work overtime to afford to get to Rio while those British athletes can train all day on lottery funding.

Financial doping..hahahahahahahahahahahaha....... :lol:

Meanwhile the Russian state sponsored actual doping programme has had athletes picked up regularly as positive over the last decade. Whilst the UK has had how many?

Still doesn't fit your narrative does it?

You're seriously going with the "Never tested positive" Defense??
Ever seen one of those work?
You'll be more successful with the Chewbacca Defense...

 

[Yokohama]

As the deluge of post-Olympic success articles continue to gush forth from the British press, the BBC iWonder site today asks the question: "Is the key to endurance locked inside our minds?"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/zg9vgk7#z9tc82p

Richard Parks, ex Welsh Rugby player pays a visit to the GSK Human Performance Lab to find out.

It's interesting to note that rugby players account for 62% of all banned athletes on the UKAD list as of April this year.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/full-shocking-details-fifteen-welsh-11254886

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

As the deluge of post-Olympic success articles continue to gush forth from the British press, the BBC iWonder site today asks the question: "Is the key to endurance locked inside our minds?"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/zg9vgk7#z9tc82p

Richard Parks, ex Welsh Rugby player pays a visit to the GSK Human Performance Lab to find out.

It's interesting to note that rugby players account for 62% of all banned athletes on the UKAD list as of April this year.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/full-shocking-details-fifteen-welsh-11254886

But no stars right? Like cycling its just the really small fish iirc

 

[Catwhoorg]

If I were to have guessed it would have been more like 75%.

Rugby has major, major issues right now.
(as do plenty of other sports of course)

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Exactly. We've gone from a situation where Olympic participants were amateur, doing a 9 to 5 job with no funding, to one where they get 30 to 40 grand to do their sport exclusively, whilst doing it within a massively enhanced infrastructure.

It's financial doping for sure.

Yeah so now the Brits are pros and the rest are still 9-5 ers!!!

Of course it is like this.

The track cyclists all have to work overtime to afford to get to Rio while those British athletes can train all day on lottery funding.

Financial doping..hahahahahahahahahahahaha....... :lol:

Meanwhile the Russian state sponsored actual doping programme has had athletes picked up regularly as positive over the last decade. Whilst the UK has had how many?

Still doesn't fit your narrative does it?

You're seriously going with the "Never tested positive" Defense??
Ever seen one of those work?
You'll be more successful with the Chewbacca Defense...

Just because the UK doesn''t 'catch' as many as Russia, and the Russian reason to catch dopers was to make money from athletes, doesn't mean that UK athletes are not doping.

Take UKADs reaction when told by an athletes about Dr Mark Bonar. Do nothing for 18months! He was treating 150 athletes. UKAD ignored that.

Then Rugby how many positives in that?

Three British athletes 'given banned substances' by Kenyan doctors.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/olympics/british-athletes-doping-drugs-banned-substances-epo-kenyan-doctors-ukad-wada-a7129156.html

UKAD ignoring Mo Farah trains with doping doctors. UKAD assisted Armsitead in getting off 1 of her 3 missed tests.

Some anti doping narrative at UKAD, not really. That is the narrative i would be more concerned with

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

As the deluge of post-Olympic success articles continue to gush forth from the British press, the BBC iWonder site today asks the question: "Is the key to endurance locked inside our minds?"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/zg9vgk7#z9tc82p

Richard Parks, ex Welsh Rugby player pays a visit to the GSK Human Performance Lab to find out.

It's interesting to note that rugby players account for 62% of all banned athletes on the UKAD list as of April this year.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/full-shocking-details-fifteen-welsh-11254886

But no stars right? Like cycling its just the really small fish iirc

The stars that do get caught are almost always caught for recreational drugs. Steven, Sailor, De Villiers all tested positive for cocaine. There was a South African who tested positive for steroids, I think Stanozolol, Ackermann. I seem to remember another fairly recently too.

 

[Yokohama]

Re: Re:

Yes, just the small fish - no incentive to dope anymore once you've made it:

Wales coach Warren Gatland, in a previous interview, said: “It’s like everything. You look at any professional sport and there’s going to be one or two who do this.”

“We don’t condone them. The problems are just below the elite level, the players who are trying to make it, who see the incentives of what professional sport can bring them.”

 

[Farcanal]

Re: Re:

Reward payments by countries for their athletes winning gold:
Singapore: $745,264 one-off payment
Moldova: $132,000 one-off payment
Romania: $79,000 + monthly income for life
Malaysia: Cash bonus + $1,200 monthly payment for life
France: $55,000 one-off payment
Indonesia: $18,000-a-year "retirement plan"
Nigeria: $2,000 one-off payment
USA $25,000 for gold, $15,000 silver and $10,000 bronze.

No incentives to cheat there then.

UK gives no rewards for winning (unless you count the honours list)

Source?

Sorry, took a while to find the links again:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-37129276

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37099066

The beeb doesn't quote its sources so it would be interesting to hear from people in their own countries as to what payments may or may not be made and whether or not their athletes are supported financially before/between competitions (and to what level?)

 

[kwikki]

Re: Re:

Exactly. We've gone from a situation where Olympic participants were amateur, doing a 9 to 5 job with no funding, to one where they get 30 to 40 grand to do their sport exclusively, whilst doing it within a massively enhanced infrastructure.

It's financial doping for sure.

Yeah so now the Brits are pros and the rest are still 9-5 ers!!!

Of course it is like this.

The track cyclists all have to work overtime to afford to get to Rio while those British athletes can train all day on lottery funding.

Financial doping..hahahahahahahahahahahaha....... :lol:

Meanwhile the Russian state sponsored actual doping programme has had athletes picked up regularly as positive over the last decade. Whilst the UK has had how many?

Still doesn't fit your narrative does it?

You're seriously going with the "Never tested positive" Defense??
Ever seen one of those work?
You'll be more successful with the Chewbacca Defense...

Just because the UK doesn''t 'catch' as many as Russia, and the Russian reason to catch dopers was to make money from athletes, doesn't mean that UK athletes are not doping.

Take UKADs reaction when told by an athletes about Dr Mark Bonar. Do nothing for 18months! He was treating 150 athletes. UKAD ignored that.

Then Rugby how many positives in that?

Three British athletes 'given banned substances' by Kenyan doctors.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/olympics/british-athletes-doping-drugs-banned-substances-epo-kenyan-doctors-ukad-wada-a7129156.html

UKAD ignoring Mo Farah trains with doping doctors. UKAD assisted Armsitead in getting off 1 of her 3 missed tests.

Some anti doping narrative at UKAD, not really. That is the narrative i would be more concerned with

No.

Bonar said he was treating 150 'athletes'. We have no indication whatsoever if he was so doing, or whether it was part of Boner's sales pitch. The 'athlete' who repeated Boner's claim/boast was a 3rd Cat cyclist ie. very much an amateur club level rider, and not even a good one at that.

Maybe that holds some sway for you, but it doesn't for me. If Boner really was doping pro TdF cyclists and other pro athletes he sure as hell wouldn't boast about it to some 3rd Cat dickwad.

Apply a bit of common sense here.

But, the rest of your points I have some sympathy for.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Yeah so now the Brits are pros and the rest are still 9-5 ers!!!

Of course it is like this.

The track cyclists all have to work overtime to afford to get to Rio while those British athletes can train all day on lottery funding.

Financial doping..hahahahahahahahahahahaha....... :lol:

Meanwhile the Russian state sponsored actual doping programme has had athletes picked up regularly as positive over the last decade. Whilst the UK has had how many?

Still doesn't fit your narrative does it?

You're seriously going with the "Never tested positive" Defense??
Ever seen one of those work?
You'll be more successful with the Chewbacca Defense...

Just because the UK doesn''t 'catch' as many as Russia, and the Russian reason to catch dopers was to make money from athletes, doesn't mean that UK athletes are not doping.

Take UKADs reaction when told by an athletes about Dr Mark Bonar. Do nothing for 18months! He was treating 150 athletes. UKAD ignored that.

Then Rugby how many positives in that?

Three British athletes 'given banned substances' by Kenyan doctors.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/olympics/british-athletes-doping-drugs-banned-substances-epo-kenyan-doctors-ukad-wada-a7129156.html

UKAD ignoring Mo Farah trains with doping doctors. UKAD assisted Armsitead in getting off 1 of her 3 missed tests.

Some anti doping narrative at UKAD, not really. That is the narrative i would be more concerned with

No.

Bonar said he was treating 150 'athletes'. We have no indication whatsoever if he was so doing, or whether it was part of Boner's sales pitch. The 'athlete' who repeated Boner's claim/boast was a 3rd Cat cyclist ie. very much an amateur club level rider, and not even a good one at that.

Maybe that holds some sway for you, but it doesn't for me. If Boner really was doping pro TdF cyclists and other pro athletes he sure as hell wouldn't boast about it to some 3rd Cat dickwad.

Apply a bit of common sense here.

But, the rest of your points I have some sympathy for.

As per usual certain posters believe those who say doping is done by a minority but when a doping doctor says he has 150 athletes as patients, he is lying.

But this could have easily been confirmed or denied if UKAD did its job. But they dont. WADA dont. System is not for anti doping, it is pr and worse...

 

[kwikki]

That is a fair point. UKAD didn't do their job, and they have been publicly excoriated for their incompetence. In spite of this, we are no nearer to knowing where Boner's claims were true.

As for your first remark, that is unfair. You are generalising, I am not. In the current climate I absolutely do not believe that a prolific doping doctor with a portfolio of high level professional athletes would openly boast.

I do believe that a prolific doping doctor trying to drum up a sideline in weekend warrior cyclists would boast about a client list in order to self-promote.

 

[buckle]

Re:

That is a fair point. UKAD didn't do their job, and they have been publicly excoriated for their incompetence. In spite of this, we are no nearer to knowing where Boner's claims were true.

As for your first remark, that is unfair. You are generalising, I am not. In the current climate I absolutely do not believe that a prolific doping doctor with a portfolio of high level professional athletes would openly boast.

I do believe that a prolific doping doctor trying to drum up a sideline in weekend warrior cyclists would boast about a client list in order to self-promote.

Rob Brinded admitted to knowing "Mark" even if the good doctor is not quite in your social circle. Do 3rd rate cyclists come with agents who shop in Knightsbridge? I thought it a pretty good sting.

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

That is a fair point. UKAD didn't do their job, and they have been publicly excoriated for their incompetence. In spite of this, we are no nearer to knowing where Boner's claims were true.

As for your first remark, that is unfair. You are generalising, I am not. In the current climate I absolutely do not believe that a prolific doping doctor with a portfolio of high level professional athletes would openly boast.

I do believe that a prolific doping doctor trying to drum up a sideline in weekend warrior cyclists would boast about a client list in order to self-promote.

Who did he 'openly' boast to? The media or another client? Did he name anyone publicly? No? Then hardly 'openly boasting'.

UKAD have barely been touched(or made accountable) for their failure to do their jobs. Hardly surprising giving the current 'Soviet style'* dominance of the British Olympic team

* Simon Jenkins description.

 

[Benotti69]

It is truly an amazing feat for a nation of 65million to have finished 2nd in the Olympic medal table ahead of 2 huge state sponsored doping Nations!

How? The answer is obvious. Doping and lax testing. Probably add in some levels of corruption in certain sports. Look at how the boxing judging went before trying to defend that and how certain tracks events decisions went in favour of GB.

Everyone in the top 10 of the medals table will have access to same equipment, same level of sports science, same style of analysis, same diets, same training facilities, same wind tunnels facilities etc etc

Sport is seriously broken.

 

[domination]

Re:

It is truly an amazing feat for a nation of 65million to have finished 2nd in the Olympic medal table ahead of 2 huge state sponsored doping Nations!

How? The answer is obvious. Doping and lax testing. Probably add in some levels of corruption in certain sports. Look at how the boxing judging went before trying to defend that and how certain tracks events decisions went in favour of GB.

Everyone in the top 10 of the medals table will have access to same equipment, same level of sports science, same style of analysis, same diets, same training facilities, same wind tunnels facilities etc etc

Sport is seriously broken.

So to use your logic Team GB is still the second best sporting nation in the world because everybody is doping, everybody is tested laxly and everybody has complete equal opportunities in all areas.

Truly an amazing feat for a nation of 65 million.

 

[buckle]

Re: Re:

It is truly an amazing feat for a nation of 65million to have finished 2nd in the Olympic medal table ahead of 2 huge state sponsored doping Nations!

How? The answer is obvious. Doping and lax testing. Probably add in some levels of corruption in certain sports. Look at how the boxing judging went before trying to defend that and how certain tracks events decisions went in favour of GB.

Everyone in the top 10 of the medals table will have access to same equipment, same level of sports science, same style of analysis, same diets, same training facilities, same wind tunnels facilities etc etc

Sport is seriously broken.

So to use your logic Team GB is still the second best sporting nation in the world because everybody is doping, everybody is tested laxly and everybody has complete equal opportunities in all areas.

Truly an amazing feat for a nation of 65 million.

The UK has successfully joined the big league of doping nations. It remains Europe's outlier in that regard. The East Germanisation of British sport will be noted by future cultural historians.

The mystery in all this is Roy Hodgson. Why did this South London gentleman choose not to dope his players earlier this year? I would love to think he did it out of respect for them as human beings. Secondly, why did the players accept this? I think the players, for their part, were flattered.

There is hope yet for England.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

It is truly an amazing feat for a nation of 65million to have finished 2nd in the Olympic medal table ahead of 2 huge state sponsored doping Nations!

How? The answer is obvious. Doping and lax testing. Probably add in some levels of corruption in certain sports. Look at how the boxing judging went before trying to defend that and how certain tracks events decisions went in favour of GB.

Everyone in the top 10 of the medals table will have access to same equipment, same level of sports science, same style of analysis, same diets, same training facilities, same wind tunnels facilities etc etc

Sport is seriously broken.

So to use your logic Team GB is still the second best sporting nation in the world because everybody is doping, everybody is tested laxly and everybody has complete equal opportunities in all areas.

Truly an amazing feat for a nation of 65 million.

Glad we agree that it was achieved with truly amazing amounts of dope.

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re: Re:

It is truly an amazing feat for a nation of 65million to have finished 2nd in the Olympic medal table ahead of 2 huge state sponsored doping Nations!

How? The answer is obvious. Doping and lax testing. Probably add in some levels of corruption in certain sports. Look at how the boxing judging went before trying to defend that and how certain tracks events decisions went in favour of GB.

Everyone in the top 10 of the medals table will have access to same equipment, same level of sports science, same style of analysis, same diets, same training facilities, same wind tunnels facilities etc etc

Sport is seriously broken.

So to use your logic Team GB is still the second best sporting nation in the world because everybody is doping, everybody is tested laxly and everybody has complete equal opportunities in all areas.

Truly an amazing feat for a nation of 65 million.

The UK has successfully joined the big league of doping nations. It remains Europe's outlier in that regard. The East Germanisation of British sport will be noted by future cultural historians.

Such interesting allegations of widespread doping are made by some other people too, who write as if they have great insight, knowledge and analytical ability. I suppose when it turns out that you and like minded critics are never shown to have got it right and future cultural historians don't note any such thing everyone will have forgotten this theme and nobody will receive any apology. Nobody is hurt, after all, you may say, by accusations in a section of the forum designed to permit people a unique kind of free speech.

Is it OK to accuse a whole sporting nation (except for the woeful national football team) and thus go far beyond expressing any suspicion that you are entitled to have? Does repetition create factual evidence?