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Bruyneel Found Levi's Blood Bag

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sniper said:
true story.
For what it's worth, Max recently said in the NUsport interview that he was sure he could still have been competitive, but only if he'd be willing to put himself on a program like others from the Bruyneel-school.
Max is 38 now.
When I read that I wondered: did he mean he could still be competitive on a program now, or that the long-term effects of a proper doping program would have allowed him to continue being competitive? Probably a bit of both.
 
Sep 10, 2009
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mastersracer said:
well, post 60 of yours claimed he's riding better now than he ever has.
When was the last time a 37-year-old took the biggest stage race win of his career, a race that is generally considered "the fourth GT"? So yes, based on that win, I do think he's going better than ever, although in hindsight it would've been better to qualify that by saying that his overall season is generally following his annual pattern.

But I do agree with you that one race - ie the Tour of Utah - is not indicative of whether or not a rider is doping, it's just in Levi's case, at age 37, given his doping-linked background, the fact that he doesn't have a contract for next season, and that he rides for Bruyneel, I highly doubt that he's suddenly decided to stop doping, whether it be for the TdF or the Tour of Utah. A win is a win, prize money is prize money, UCI points are UCI points, they all count toward scoring that next contract.

btw any idea why he's not riding the Vuelta? I just noticed that he's not on RS's roster.
 
May 7, 2009
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VeloCity said:
.....btw any idea why he's not riding the Vuelta? I just noticed that he's not on RS's roster.

He is riding the new Colorado Race. The races overlap, so riders have to choose one or the other...
 
- What about Levi nation?


http://www.levination.com/


Levi Leipheimer’s taking down walls, reviewing carpet swatches, and picking out curtains: Welcome to his newly redesigned website! We’re all just getting started here, but soon this site will be full of all the hustle and the bustle around the US’s premier cyclist. Look for race schedule, biographical information, palmares/race results, photos, video posts, charity partners, and, most importantly, news and updates about Levi’s upcoming documentary on his cycling career, Levi’s GranFondo, and the amazing bike life in his home of Sonoma County, California.

Produced by Bike Monkey with Citizen Pictures behind the camera, we’re already shooting and are pretty positive you won’t be able to resist checking out the trailer (embedded above). Should you be able to hold still this long, we’re looking at a fall 2012 release. Should you not be able to hold still that long, you’ll at least have our sympathies and understanding. Keep it right here for more info or, better yet, sign up here for updates delivered directly to your inbox.

In the meantime, check out Levi’s race schedule and get yourself over to the roadside (or trailside) to give this man some solid cheering. Or better yet, get out on your bike. If there’s one thing we’ve all got in common, it’s the belief that there’s no better way to spend a day than in the saddle.
 
Nov 20, 2010
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thehog said:
- What about Levi nation?


http://www.levination.com/


Levi Leipheimer’s taking down walls, reviewing carpet swatches, and picking out curtains: Welcome to his newly redesigned website! We’re all just getting started here, but soon this site will be full of all the hustle and the bustle around the US’s premier cyclist. Look for race schedule, biographical information, palmares/race results, photos, video posts, charity partners, and, most importantly, news and updates about Levi’s upcoming documentary on his cycling career, Levi’s GranFondo, and the amazing bike life in his home of Sonoma County, California.

Produced by Bike Monkey with Citizen Pictures behind the camera, we’re already shooting and are pretty positive you won’t be able to resist checking out the trailer (embedded above). Should you be able to hold still this long, we’re looking at a fall 2012 release. Should you not be able to hold still that long, you’ll at least have our sympathies and understanding. Keep it right here for more info or, better yet, sign up here for updates delivered directly to your inbox.

In the meantime, check out Levi’s race schedule and get yourself over to the roadside (or trailside) to give this man some solid cheering. Or better yet, get out on your bike. If there’s one thing we’ve all got in common, it’s the belief that there’s no better way to spend a day than in the saddle.
To Hell with Levi. Bring on Odessa. :D
 
Feb 4, 2010
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Race Radio said:
So you are calling Holczer a liar?

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/08/news/former-gerolsteiner-manager-levels-doping-charge-against-leipheimer_133494

What is "Cloak and Dagger" about





Given Levi's past it is not a stretch to say that his success comes in the form of a bag of blood
I think it's all bulls**t and nobody knows what is really going on. Lots of personal vendettas, cherry picked info, interwebz armchair theory that feeds on itself, oversized egos, righteous indignation, and on and on. LL is derided by many of the same people who spout ridiculous personal slams who have never met, much less know the guy, for being unexciting, a wheel sucker, no killer instinct, etc and now he's one of the biggest dopers out there with highly impressive achievements all due to a highly advanced and systematic PED program.

Carry on though. I find the clinic to be fascinating reading, especially the obsession with the dark necromancer. Highly entertaining in a train wreck, Simpsons kind of way.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
thehog said:
best bit of the site is this

Coming in the fall of 2012.

This film will take its viewers on a journey through Levi Leipheimer’s rise from the mining town of Butte, Montana to the podium of the Tour de France.

Scheduled to debut during the 2012 GranFondo in Santa Rosa, CA. Sign up on our mailing list to be informed of DVD pre-sales and other film related information.
interesting that hes confident enough to do a life of levi documentary considering whats going on
 
Jun 19, 2009
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9000ft said:
I think it's all bulls**t and nobody knows what is really going on. Lots of personal vendettas, cherry picked info, interwebz armchair theory that feeds on itself, oversized egos, righteous indignation, and on and on. LL is derided by many of the same people who spout ridiculous personal slams who have never met, much less know the guy, for being unexciting, a wheel sucker, no killer instinct, etc and now he's one of the biggest dopers out there with highly impressive achievements all due to a highly advanced and systematic PED program.

Carry on though. I find the clinic to be fascinating reading, especially the obsession with the dark necromancer. Highly entertaining in a train wreck, Simpsons kind of way.
See items in redas some of us have the history preceding today's discussion.
 
Jun 8, 2010
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Race Radio said:
Exactly....and the fanboys know what they were told on Versus.
this is silly too - the only thing you've contributed in terms of 'inside knowledge' is a bit about Holczer, which is public knowledge. It's not even particularly credible, since he announced the suspicious values at a press conference for the publication of his book in English. Not saying it may not be true, but the timing is suspicious.

The only people who have actual knowledge of whether LL is currently doping is an extremely small group in his inner circle - and I doubt any of them are posting here about it. I raced with a number of guys of LL's vintage and train with some still and never does the subject of PEDs get brought up. It is a line that's not crossed.
 
mastersracer said:
this is silly too - the only thing you've contributed in terms of 'inside knowledge' is a bit about Holczer, which is public knowledge. It's not even particularly credible, since he announced the suspicious values at a press conference for the publication of his book in English. Not saying it may not be true, but the timing is suspicious.

The only people who have actual knowledge of whether LL is currently doping is an extremely small group in his inner circle - and I doubt any of them are posting here about it. I raced with a number of guys of LL's vintage and train with some still and never does the subject of PEDs get brought up. It is a line that's not crossed.
Remember anyone when real easing a book it can't be trusted - examples: Its not about the Bike and Every Second Counts etc.

I'm also sure Levi Nation the documentry will go into the intimite details on Levi's prep for races. Blood bags and all that.

Perhaps when you catch up with Levi on a training ride ask him about his previous positive test or is that a line never crossed?

****.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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mastersracer said:
this is silly too - the only thing you've contributed in terms of 'inside knowledge' is a bit about Holczer, which is public knowledge. It's not even particularly credible, since he announced the suspicious values at a press conference for the publication of his book in English. Not saying it may not be true, but the timing is suspicious.

The only people who have actual knowledge of whether LL is currently doping is an extremely small group in his inner circle - and I doubt any of them are posting here about it. I raced with a number of guys of LL's vintage and train with some still and never does the subject of PEDs get brought up. It is a line that's not crossed.
Not surprised they don't feel comfortable talking to you. I know a few of his former teammates who have no problem talking.....even to the Feds. Odessa didn't have a problem complaining to the other wives about the transfusions they were doing on Rabobank.

It has been 6 years since Levi had blood values that were so scary that even the UCI was concern. Since then he has had the best years of his career.....certainly this is because of frequent transfusions of hope and high cadence pedaling.
 
Jun 8, 2010
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Race Radio said:
Not surprised they don't feel comfortable talking to you. I know a few of his former teammates who have no problem talking.....even to the Feds. Odessa didn't have a problem complaining to the other wives about the transfusions they were doing on Rabobank.

It has been 6 years since Levi had blood values that were so scary that even the UCI was concern. Since then he has had the best years of his career.....certainly this is because of frequent transfusions of hope and high cadence pedaling.
my point is that no one here has any privileged information of his current doping program or even if there is one. It's all speculation, including the one that started this whole thread (that the Tour of Utah victory was evidence of doping). Of course they'd talk to the Feds - prospective immunity will make just about anyone talk, or force you into perjury. It's not as though they eagerly or willingly want to provide testimony against one another.
 
May 26, 2010
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mastersracer said:
my point is that no one here has any privileged information of his current doping program or even if there is one. It's all speculation, including the one that started this whole thread (that the Tour of Utah victory was evidence of doping). Of course they'd talk to the Feds - prospective immunity will make just about anyone talk, or force you into perjury. It's not as though they eagerly or willingly want to provide testimony against one another.
so when did the doping stop in the sport? and if it didn't how come an old guy like LL can win TdS?
 
Sep 10, 2009
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mastersracer said:
my point is that no one here has any privileged information of his current doping program or even if there is one. It's all speculation, including the one that started this whole thread (that the Tour of Utah victory was evidence of doping).
If we know that (a) a rider's been doping most of his career and (b) he's still riding at least as well, if not better, than ever, then it stands to follow either that (c) he's still doping or (d) he's wasted a hell of a lot of money on PEDs over the years when it turns out he can ride just as well without them. Seems to me that (c) is the most reasonable conclusion.

There's no chance that a 37-year-old is going to win ANYTHING against a field of 25-year-old dopers without doping himself, be it Suisse, the TdF, or Utah.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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mastersracer said:
my point is that no one here has any privileged information of his current doping program or even if there is one. It's all speculation, including the one that started this whole thread (that the Tour of Utah victory was evidence of doping). Of course they'd talk to the Feds - prospective immunity will make just about anyone talk, or force you into perjury. It's not as though they eagerly or willingly want to provide testimony against one another.
So unless we have pictures of blood bags then we should pretend everything is fine.....got it. Happy thoughts, unicorns, etc.
 
Damiano Machiavelli said:
... The USADA has been stripping people of all results in cases like Joe Papp where this is a long history of doping. Levi has been travelling around the country, squatting down, and taking big dumps on american races, not caring about the damage that will be done when his grand jury testimony shows what a fraud he is.
Right. The precedent has already been set for disqualifying an athlete from all race results during a period of alleged doping w/o requiring an admission of PED-use for a specific race, or a positive test result. Ergo, Levi could see his entire professional career invalidated. It's a long-shot, and while it would probably be the "right" thing to have happen, I think he'll keep all his money and all his medals and trophies and even that Leadville belt buckle.
 
Jun 8, 2010
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Race Radio said:
So unless we have pictures of blood bags then we should pretend everything is fine.....got it. Happy thoughts, unicorns, etc.
you don't seem to read very well. I never said LL wasn't doping. I said that winning the Tour of Utah does not provide evidence that he is. This thread started as the result of the empty inference: if rider x wins race y, then rider x is doping. The point - that a lot of people are trying to get across - is that the probability of LL doping conditional on winning ToU is no higher than the unconditional probability that LL is doping. Who knows if he is doping - it would be remarkably stupid of him to do so for an event that no one will remember who won it a month from now while there's intense media scrutiny and an ongoing investigation led by a rabid prosecutor.

As for the inference that LL is doing better at 37 than he ever has, therefore, he is doping, there is also another possibility, namely, that in general the peloton is less doped than it has been in the past. Who knows if that's true - there's long thread on here trying to estimate power, VAMs, etc. It seems certainly true that riders are having a harder time drawing blood and manipulating blood parameters in a way that isn't suspicious. There would also be worry about plasticizer tests (and whether its admission is holding up CAS on Contador), HGH testing, etc. It's entirely possible that a rider could do as well or better than in the past via not/less doping if other riders are also not/less doping, since ultimately it is only relative performance that matters.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
joe_papp said:
Right. The precedent has already been set for disqualifying an athlete from all race results during a period of alleged doping w/o requiring an admission of PED-use for a specific race, or a positive test result. Ergo, Levi could see his entire professional career invalidated. It's a long-shot, and while it would probably be the "right" thing to have happen, I think he'll keep all his money and all his medals and trophies and even that Leadville belt buckle.
So he's not on the "list" then?
 
Aug 6, 2009
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VeloCity said:
There's no chance that a 37-year-old is going to win ANYTHING against a field of 25-year-old dopers without doping himself, be it Suisse, the TdF, or Utah.
Absolutely. The prevailing wisdom is if someone hasn't been caught outright, then their integrity should remain wholeheartedly intact and their race results should not be questioned.

That somehow, suspicion isn't enough to cast doubts when you have some over-the-hill American racers winning races they have no business winning.

The whole North American cycling crew ushered in by the 1992 North American squad and those that came after were the vanguard of some of the dirtiest riders in the peloton.

Without dope, none of them would have had a career in the European peloton, and Armstrong would have remained exactly what he was-a Classics Clydesdale with no grand tour pedigree whatsoever.
 

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