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Bruyneel Found Levi's Blood Bag

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Aug 13, 2009
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mastersracer said:
you don't seem to read very well. I never said LL wasn't doping. I said that winning the Tour of Utah does not provide evidence that he is. This thread started as the result of the empty inference: if rider x wins race y, then rider x is doping. The point - that a lot of people are trying to get across - is that the probability of LL doping conditional on winning ToU is no higher than the unconditional probability that LL is doping. Who knows if he is doping - it would be remarkably stupid of him to do so for an event that no one will remember who won it a month from now while there's intense media scrutiny and an ongoing investigation led by a rabid prosecutor.

As for the inference that LL is doing better at 37 than he ever has, therefore, he is doping, there is also another possibility, namely, that in general the peloton is less doped than it has been in the past. Who knows if that's true - there's long thread on here trying to estimate power, VAMs, etc. It seems certainly true that riders are having a harder time drawing blood and manipulating blood parameters in a way that isn't suspicious. There would also be worry about plasticizer tests (and whether its admission is holding up CAS on Contador), HGH testing, etc. It's entirely possible that a rider could do as well or better than in the past via not/less doping if other riders are also not/less doping, since ultimately it is only relative performance that matters.

I read perfectly fine. I just do not believe the garden gnome has suddenly given up what he has done his entire career.
 
Jun 8, 2010
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Berzin said:
Absolutely. The prevailing wisdom is if someone hasn't been caught outright, then their integrity should remain wholeheartedly intact and their race results should not be questioned.

correct me if I'm wrong but the only thing LL was caught outright taking was Ephedrine in 1996.

That somehow, suspicion isn't enough to cast doubts when you have some over-the-hill American racers winning races they have no business winning.

The whole North American cycling crew ushered in by the 1992 North American squad and those that came after were the vanguard of some of the dirtiest riders in the peloton.

Seriously? Name a single country from 1992 on that has not had their top riders involved in major doping scandals. If anything, the art of doping comes from Italy, at least where the doping protocols were pioneered (Ferrari and Conconi)

Without dope, none of them would have had a career in the European peloton, and Armstrong would have remained exactly what he was-a Classics Clydesdale with no grand tour pedigree whatsoever.
Without dope, not a single person would have placed on the podium over the same period - unless you can point to one that hasn't had doping allegations.
 
Jun 8, 2010
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5 Jens Voigt (Ger) Leopard Trek
6 George Hincapie (USA) BMC Racing Team
7 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Team RadioShack

A 39, 38, and 37 year old place this high up in the prologue of the US Pro Cycling Challenge - beating the Tour winner - and there's no international calls for doping investigations? Based on the impeccable logic of this thread, isn't that enough evidence for a conviction right there?
 
Sep 10, 2009
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mastersracer said:
5 Jens Voigt (Ger) Leopard Trek
6 George Hincapie (USA) BMC Racing Team
7 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Team RadioShack

A 39, 38, and 37 year old place this high up in the prologue of the US Pro Cycling Challenge - beating the Tour winner - and there's no international calls for doping investigations? Based on the impeccable logic of this thread, isn't that enough evidence for a conviction right there?
um, two of those are Hincapie and Leipheimer, both pretty much known to be dopers throughout their careers. Voigt's never been directly linked but he's ridden for most of his career with Riis at CSC/Saxo, not exactly known to be the cleanest DS.

I doubt there are too many cycling fans who believe any of those three to be clean, now or at any point in their careers.
 
Sep 10, 2009
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mastersracer said:
5 Jens Voigt (Ger) Leopard Trek
6 George Hincapie (USA) BMC Racing Team
7 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Team RadioShack

A 39, 38, and 37 year old place this high up in the prologue of the US Pro Cycling Challenge - beating the Tour winner - and there's no international calls for doping investigations? Based on the impeccable logic of this thread, isn't that enough evidence for a conviction right there?
This is why it wouldn't surprise me if Levi is still doping, including for Utah: Omega-Quick Step is showing interest in signing him to a contract for next year. Without those wins at TdS and Utah, I doubt any team would be much interested in a 37-year-old rider, but a 37-year-old with a bunch of UCI points, that's going to attract some attention.

Or, put it this way: a 37-year-old rider who's doped throughout his career suddenly finds himself without a contract for next year? Where's the incentive to stop doping at this point?
 
Feb 16, 2011
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VeloCity said:
This is why it wouldn't surprise me if Levi is still doping, including for Utah: Omega-Quick Step is showing interest in signing him to a contract for next year. Without those wins at TdS and Utah, I doubt any team would be much interested in a 37-year-old rider, but a 37-year-old with a bunch of UCI points, that's going to attract some attention.

Or, put it this way: a 37-year-old rider who's doped throughout his career suddenly finds himself without a contract for next year? Where's the incentive to stop doping at this point?
If Omega-Quick Step get Tony Martin, how about Levi to GreenEdge? So far, they haven't got a GC rider.
 
May 26, 2010
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Stingray34 said:
If Omega-Quick Step get Tony Martin, how about Levi to GreenEdge? So far, they haven't got a GC rider.
you mean they haven't got a 38 year old doper who can win TdS or ToU.:rolleyes:
 
Feb 16, 2011
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MacRoadie said:
Yikes! Where's the Stuey love?

Stuey stole all my e at a club in Toulouse and swallowed it just before Mike Tomarlaris came up to him and gave him a big man-kiss.
 
Aug 3, 2009
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Stingray34 said:
Stuey stole all my e at a club in Toulouse and swallowed it just before Mike Tomarlaris came up to him and gave him a big man-kiss.
Yep, that'll do it every time...
 
Jun 16, 2010
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Levi Found Another Blood Bag!

At the first stage of the Colorado race, Levi won the sprint against Henao, Cadel, and the Schlecks. I think it's safe to say that he had another blood bag waiting for him for this race...
 
Jun 19, 2009
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ricara said:
At the first stage of the Colorado race, Levi won the sprint against Henao, Cadel, and the Schlecks. I think it's safe to say that he had another blood bag waiting for him for this race...
It serves him better at this altitude than whatever he was using at the Tour. But then again it looked like he was using the Tour as training for this race.
 
May 12, 2009
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I wouldn't infer any kind of doping by the prologue results. It was short, and mostly downhill. The keys to doing well would be bike handling, power and aerodynamics. That's why you saw guys like Hincapie, Voigt and Forster place high. They're bigger and could spin the bigger gears. Not so much to do with doping or age IMO.

Yesterday's result is a different question IMO, but still not necessarily conclusive. Levi more or less crashed out of the TdF, so generally would be less tired then the guys that were really pushing for the GC there. In addition, he's almost certainly more acclimated to the altitude.

Not saying he hasn't doped in the past, or isn't currently, just that I wouldn't use his results in UT or CO to definitively draw that conclusion.
 
Jan 18, 2010
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customs

Maybe LL's advantage is that he doesn't have to get his blood bags through customs like the Euro riders in this race.

:rolleyes:
 
May 23, 2011
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biokemguy said:
Maybe LL's advantage is that he doesn't have to get his blood bags through customs like the Euro riders in this race.
He might do better at one week stage races because he can tranfuse before the race and rely on that to carry him through to the end. During a grand tour he would need support to do one or two mid-race transfusions.

Anyway, it says a lot that Bottle has his most successful season and Bruyneel will not renew his contract. He must have really p1ssed off Buyneel and Lance.
 
A

Anonymous

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Damiano Machiavelli said:
He might do better at one week stage races because he can tranfuse before the race and rely on that to carry him through to the end. During a grand tour he would need support to do one or two mid-race transfusions.

Anyway, it says a lot that Bottle has his most successful season and Bruyneel will not renew his contract. He must have really p1ssed off Buyneel and Lance.
This x ten
 
Aug 6, 2009
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That outfit is worse than any doping offenses he owned up to during his career.

It deserves a lifetime ban.
 
May 3, 2010
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VeloCity said:
This is why it wouldn't surprise me if Levi is still doping, including for Utah: Omega-Quick Step is showing interest in signing him to a contract for next year. Without those wins at TdS and Utah, I doubt any team would be much interested in a 37-year-old rider, but a 37-year-old with a bunch of UCI points, that's going to attract some attention.

Or, put it this way: a 37-year-old rider who's doped throughout his career suddenly finds himself without a contract for next year? Where's the incentive to stop doping at this point?
Add into that - given how strong omerta is there are, if he has fessed up and told all then I am not sure how welcome he will be next season. Strikes me that the Dwarf is cashing in while he can because he knows that the music is going to stop very soon.
 

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