Cadel Evans Discussion Thread

[Parrulo]

I am really enjoying your misery. Sour grapes from hitch, ohh yeah!

Sour grapes? It was obvious to everyone watching the race that Evans was struggling on the mountains on the last week and looking at the time he lost on the MTT and on tre cime it is also obvious he would have been out of the podium if they weren't cancelled/ altered.

The only one with sour grapes here is you because you refuse to see the whole reality of the situation when it comes to Evans. Even when it comes to extra PRR stuff.

 

[goggalor]

Sour grapes? It was obvious to everyone watching the race that Evans was struggling on the mountains on the last week and looking at the time he lost on the MTT and on tre cime it is also obvious he would have been out of the podium if they weren't cancelled/ altered.

The only one with sour grapes here is you because you refuse to see the whole reality of the situation when it comes to Evans. Even when it comes to extra PRR stuff.

That's not at all obvious. It would have been close between him and Betancur, but Val Martello isn't that tough, Evans would have had a good chance to finish within a minute and a half.

 

[IndianCyclist]

Evans is two years closer to 34 than 40. At 34 he won the Tour in impressive circumstances. Meanwhile Horner was beating Evans at TA earlier this year at 41 years of age, then we had Jens Voight at TOC at how old? Beetroot juice or not that tells me it's possible.

Plus this Giro while cold, wet and snowy was probably less hard on the legs due to major Mountain stages being cut or drastically reduced. I'd say there'd be less accumulated fatigue from this Giro than in 2011 or 2012 at least. Then Evans went into the Giro short on prep so the accumulated fatigue he brought into the Giro was less than otherwise - unlike Nibali for example whos been going full gas all season and the Giro was his only major goal this year.

Not taking anything from Tejay who'll get his chance but at his age BMC were wise to give the old man one more chance to be leader. Tejay will have his chance in 2014.

I could still be proven wrong in July but looking at the facts a case for Evans can be made quite easily and I'm sure thats how BMC looked at it.

I think both will have their chances. First of all the main work in the mountains will be done by Sky or Saxobank. All they have to do is latch on to those trains. For eg. TG sucks Contador's wheel, Evans sucks TJ's wheel. Whoever gets dropped is left behind on his own. So nobody works for anybody at BMC but lets the other teams do the work till a significant gap opens between the two leaders at BMC. strategy.

 

[Parrulo]

That's not at all obvious. It would have been close between him and Betancur, but Val Martello isn't that tough, Evans would have had a good chance to finish within a minute and a half.

What about the Stelvio and Gavia tiring the legs before Val Martello? And stage 20 with the Giau after 2 tough climbs before Tre cime?

On the last 3 km's of tre cime with a flat stage before the final climb, Evans still lost 1:30 to Nibali, 1:10 to Uran and Betancur (no time bonus included) . If both stages had been ridden to the full he would have lost much more time.

We should also not forget that he already lost plenty of time on Jafreu and was lucky that the Galibier stage had its steeper 4km's cut and was ridden softly by the main contenders.

Evans was stronger than i thought he would be, but not strong enough to make the podium without the weather playing in his favour by cancelling stages.

 

[Walkman]

Sour grapes? It was obvious to everyone watching the race that Evans was struggling on the mountains on the last week and looking at the time he lost on the MTT and on tre cime it is also obvious he would have been out of the podium if they weren't cancelled/ altered.

The only one with sour grapes here is you because you refuse to see the whole reality of the situation when it comes to Evans. Even when it comes to extra PRR stuff.

Thanks for the psychoanalysis, however I am well aware of Evans shortcomings in the mountains at the moment. Sour grapes? Yes, he was condescending. The other riders had 19 stages to get time on Evans. And actually, they did race in the mountains before the cancelled stage.

Hitch has always had a hard time dealing with Evans

 

[Boeing]

Evans as team leader. This sport hangs on to the old meat far too long. Let the youth prevail.

this is a fail move unless it is a bluff. TJ will be taking his pulse again waiting for Evans to attack

 

[The Principal Sheep]

Evans as team leader. This sport hangs on to the old meat far too long. Let the youth prevail.

this is a fail move unless it is a bluff. TJ will be taking his pulse again waiting for Evans to attack

Lip service for the old guy, they didn't believe in him before the Giro and don't see why they'd think he can challenge after it. In truth neither with present a challenge but they'll be backing youth and just trying to give TJ a little space.

 

[Afrank]

Evans is two years closer to 34 than 40. At 34 he won the Tour in impressive circumstances. Meanwhile Horner was beating Evans at TA earlier this year at 41 years of age, then we had Jens Voight at TOC at how old? Beetroot juice or not that tells me it's possible.

Plus this Giro while cold, wet and snowy was probably less hard on the legs due to major Mountain stages being cut or drastically reduced. I'd say there'd be less accumulated fatigue from this Giro than in 2011 or 2012 at least. Then Evans went into the Giro short on prep so the accumulated fatigue he brought into the Giro was less than otherwise - unlike Nibali for example whos been going full gas all season and the Giro was his only major goal this year.

Not taking anything from Tejay who'll get his chance but at his age BMC were wise to give the old man one more chance to be leader. Tejay will have his chance in 2014.

I could still be proven wrong in July but looking at the facts a case for Evans can be made quite easily and I'm sure thats how BMC looked at it.

Horner doing well at TA or Voigt winning a stage of California can't correlate to Evans doing well in a 3 week grand tour. As those races are pretty far from the level of the Tour de France.

The Giro is a hard race, with multiple 200+ km stages. Even with many mountains being taken out of the Giro, Evans will be feeling some fatigue from it. Plus the many demanding classic-like stages were in no way easy this year. Maybe if Evans was 29 (like when he placed 2nd and 4th in Tour-Vuelta) then he could have a good chance of doing well at the Tour too. But the older a rider gets the more easily that rider will fatigue with lots of racing.

Evans performance at the Giro was a surprise, but as others have said, he was aided greatly by the removal of many key climbs. With things like the Skytrain, Contador's attacks, and other factors it will be harder for Evans at 36 to hang in there and place well on GC. And the climbs of the Tour aren't likely to be removed.

 

[The Hitch]

Thanks for the psychoanalysis

Hitch has always had a hard time dealing with Evans

I made a joke which is also half true about how Evans got lucky the stage was cancelled. THe same comment 50 other people made because its true.

You tried once to bait me out.

I didn't bite.

So you address someone else and keep talking about the hitch. Its getting desperate.

 

[TANK91]

2 Giros > 1 TdF

So Gotti, Simoni, Savoldelli > Evans

First is the only thing that counts in bike racing.

In that case then 2ATOC > 1 Giro.

 

[TANK91]

IMO Evans was a lil lucky but come on who thought he'd achieve what he did?, i certainly didn't. I think he done very well everyone wrote him off before the Giro. I think the amount of bad luck he as had through the years i think he deserve's abit. All three GT's he as podiumed now give the guy a break.

 

[UlleGigo]

Although it was very obvious that Evans was fading its not a forgone conclusion, as some are suggesting, that he would have finished off the podium if the stages were run to schedule.

Evans finished 15 seconds back on Scarponi on stage 20 and without Cuddles blowing up completely I can't see how he loses his podium spot to Betancur. How often has Cadel completely blown injury and illness free?

I saw Cadel fading in the third week. I've seen Cadel fade in every third week. But I also see people trying to discredit Cadel's performance. It's the same every year. Fading in the third week of GT to finish high up doesn't make him lucky. It just means he rode well in the first two weeks and held on to finish where he deserved to finish.

Nobody podiums a GT without deserving it. I think that's the idea of a grand tour after all.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

evans benefited from the neutralized stages more then anyone. No chance eh would have been on the podium otherwise, he looked weak going up.

But yeah, I'm sure he'll be fine at the tour.

 

[delbified]

Evans said he felt great on stage 20, when he was clearly stuck in the wrong gear. given that he only shed 1:30 to nibali and much less to others such as scarponi, that doesn't sound like 'fading' to me.

he obviously had a bad day at the MTT, but there's a difference between a bad day and fading in the 3rd week.

in any case, the 3rd week was always going to be a challenge, given his poor preparation. that won't be the case at the Tour.

 

[Oldman]

Evans said he felt great on stage 20, when he was clearly stuck in the wrong gear. given that he only shed 1:30 to nibali and much less to others such as scarponi, that doesn't sound like 'fading' to me.

he obviously had a bad day at the MTT, but there's a difference between a bad day and fading in the 3rd week.

in any case, the 3rd week was always going to be a challenge, given his poor preparation. that won't be the case at the Tour.

The conditions they raced in added a week to the wear and tear for all riders. Nibali was heroic but the entire Giro fell away from him. He should be very proud of enduring the ordeal but there will be many more contesting the Tour including Evans. Evans will still need to fight for the Tour podium.

 

[delbified]

Evans will still need to fight for the Tour podium.

i don't think anyone is suggesting a Tour podium will be easy for Evans. at 36, he's past his physical peak. but without going into restricted areas of discussion, his physical peak has never been his greatest limitation. there have been other reasons, including - i suspect - psychological ones.

what i - and i suspect other supporters of his - are arguing is that he is equipped to fight it out at the Tour amongst the best. will he wipe the floor with Froome? that seems like a bit of an ask. but there aren't many riders who can put their hand on their heart and say they are superior to Evans when he's in form.

 

[Archibald]

A very clever ride from Cadel, way beyond his possibilities.

I believe they call that experience, something he has in abundance

Evans said he felt great on stage 20, when he was clearly stuck in the wrong gear. given that he only shed 1:30 to nibali and much less to others such as scarponi, that doesn't sound like 'fading' to me.

tis interesting to hear folks talk of Evans benefitting the most from the cancellations. Surely that was Nibali for the reduced chance of him having a bad day and reduced chance of people to attack him and Astana. He was running out of team-mates...

Scarponi (quoted above) is someone I don't think would have survived the full third week [should it have not been truncated] as well as Evans. Both are experienced campaigners, but between the two I know which I'd back before the other to still be in the mix...

I'd have expected others to have faded a lot more too if the full course had taken place. People say that Evans would have faded and lost the podium as if the others around him were bullet-proof and would have ridden through the final week as if they were on USPostal... unlikely.

 

[Afrank]

tis interesting to hear folks talk of Evans benefitting the most from the cancellations. Surely that was Nibali for the reduced chance of him having a bad day and reduced chance of people to attack him and Astana. He was running out of team-mates...

Nibali showed in the mountains and the time trials that he was the strongest in the race (he was at the very top end in both). While Evans fell back on almost every decisive mountain (Galibier being the only one he didn't fall back on) and finished far down from Nibali in the mountain TT. I'd say this shows that it was far more likely that Evans was the one benefiting from parts of the route being cut. Nibali in the mountains never looked in serious trouble, while Evans did look in trouble multiple times.

And Nibali wasn't really running out of teammate. Kangert and Agnoli were going strong the entire race and on Tre Cime di Lavaredo he also had Aru (who was missing in the weeks before due to illness). Plus the way he rode away from everyone there shows he would have probably been strong enough to handle the climb without too many teammates.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Nibali showed in the mountains and the time trials that he was the strongest in the race (he was at the very top end in both). While Evans fell back on almost every decisive mountain (Galibier being the only one he didn't fall back on) and finished far down from Nibali in the mountain TT. I'd say this shows that it was far more likely that Evans was the one benefiting from parts of the route being cut. Nibali in the mountains never looked in serious trouble, while Evans did look in trouble multiple times.

Snipped..

The MTT performance from Evans was a clean indicator he would have struggled in the 3rd week.

Just can't hide weakness in such an event.

 

[movingtarget]

The conditions they raced in added a week to the wear and tear for all riders. Nibali was heroic but the entire Giro fell away from him. He should be very proud of enduring the ordeal but there will be many more contesting the Tour including Evans. Evans will still need to fight for the Tour podium.

And that's Evans strength, he always fights, never gives up and has finished all of his grand tours. While other younger riders are dropping out with colds etc Evans keeps going. He can win most types of races in all types of conditions. Nobody expects him to win the Tour but but he always does his best. Consistency is his strength. His TT in the Giro was very out of character but he said his legs felt okay. Offered no excuses. While others prefer to chase the dollars at his age and become domestiques for other riders, Evans still tries to win even though at this stage he is up against it. Everyone will be fighting for the podium in this year's Tour. It should be one of the most interesting grand tours for a long time. Just to make the top 10 will be a battle for many good GC riders. If Nibali was in there in this sort of form it would have been even better.

 

[IndianCyclist]

Evans said he felt great on stage 20, when he was clearly stuck in the wrong gear. given that he only shed 1:30 to nibali and much less to others such as scarponi, that doesn't sound like 'fading' to me.

he obviously had a bad day at the MTT, but there's a difference between a bad day and fading in the 3rd week.

in any case, the 3rd week was always going to be a challenge, given his poor preparation. that won't be the case at the Tour.

The MTT was the only place where he was very ordinary and where he lost the chunk of his time. Otherwise he was ok compared to the preparation he had. he was able to match most of the riders including Scarponi on the climbs.
The strongest riders would be
Nibali>Uran,Betancur>Evans, Scarponi
The only person to have gained if the mountains were more, it was Betancur. He would have leapfrogged Evans & Scarponi.

 

[UlleGigo]

Evans said he felt great on stage 20, when he was clearly stuck in the wrong gear. given that he only shed 1:30 to nibali and much less to others such as scarponi, that doesn't sound like 'fading' to me.

he obviously had a bad day at the MTT, but there's a difference between a bad day and fading in the 3rd week.

in any case, the 3rd week was always going to be a challenge, given his poor preparation. that won't be the case at the Tour.

So its a bad day or the third week was always going to be a challenge (see: Cadel weakened)? Which is it?

You need to face reality. Cadel is a great rider but he has a history of exactly the sort of ride we saw in this years Giro. The tour will be no different.

 

[TANK91]

Who knows, maybe Evans will get a gap from the ttts and itts, then all the mountains apart from a few mtfs will be neutralized or cancelled, and he will finish on the podium.

Will you moan all TDF if riders gain an advantage in the TTT because it is going to happen.

 

[Franklin]

Cadel is a great rider but he has a history of exactly the sort of ride we saw in this years Giro. The tour will be no different.

Ule, I have given solid evidence that this is a nonsense. Point out a year where he flunked his TT this badly and you will arrive at either the TdF 2009 or 2010. Clearly those years are by far the worst in his GT career. Claiming this is typically Cadel is ridonculous.

It would be really helpful if people used the avialbale data instead of saying things that are verifiably untrue.

And yeah, Cadel is old and I would be shocked if he manages a good TdF

 

[ebandit]

funny

Ule, I have given solid evidence that this is a nonsense. Point out a year where he flunked his TT this badly and you will arrive at either the TdF 2009 or 2010. Clearly those years are by far the worst in his GT career. Claiming this is typically Cadel is ridonculous.

It would be really helpful if people used the avialbale data instead of saying things that are verifiably untrue.

that's funny..........diss a member's statement as untrue with 2 examples where it happened

'cuddles' how is he popular? i noticed how far back cadel was down the combativity competition in the recent giro

.................virtualy anonymous

Mark L