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Cadel Evan's swipe at Valverde

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Mar 13, 2009
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rhubroma said:
In fact I don't agree with point 2.

Look, it's like the disaster of deregulation at Wall Street. Washington put the chief investment bankers, i.e. those who stood to make the most money from a financial market without rules, in charge of regulating it. And this is what mostly led to the disaster.

The same governing sport bodies, for the same conflict of interests, have led to the curruption that has prevented real justice from being done.

So call it what you want, the State or something else, but there needs to be an independent, unbiased and higher authority in regulating sport, becuase organizations like the UCI are currupt to the gills and polluted with a conflict of interests which has allowed the farce to go on far far too long now.

And State law changed in Spain, the moment OP came out, however there wasn't the political will to make the new law retroactive so as to allow further investigation of the those involved in Fuente's register (though after a few foreign riders had to pay a heavy price for their affiliation).

Not that the State needs to be directly involved with prosecuting the accused, but it should legaly force the governing bodies of sport, the UCI, the IOC, that of pro soccer, etc. to adhere to an independent body invested with legal authority over themselves, and theoretically without a conflict of interests, to arbitrate and judge in matters of athletes doping offences, or their using of medics and labs for a doping purpose.

That the doctors and the labs, or whatever network structure, exists to facilitate doping, should be directly prosecuted and punished by the State is without question.

Of course there is one huge problem with all of this: namely that often the State itself is plagued with the same curruption and conflict of interests as all the rest. Because, as BroDeal correctly points out, the State already finances with public funds the stadiums. The rest coming from the same corporate entities, whose lobbies finance the political campaigns which get them elected into office. Consequently if you have this Joe politician that recieved huge campain funds from this multinational corporation, which has invested massive sums of money in the baseball or soccer stadiums and the teams that perform in them, as well as in the television rights to broadcast them: they thus collectively become propagandistc marketing tools to drive up corporate sales - and this is why it is easy to see how there is no political will to bring out to the public, the full weight of cases like OP in terms of illicit behavior and curruption in the world of sport culture today because it's bad corporate PR. Sport enterprise simply generates too huge, gargantuan sums of cashflow for the corporations and their political lobbists and it is likely the soccer contingent in OP that broke any political will to see justice done as a result with a retroactive law in Spain. Italian soccer and it's politicians are no better...

So we haven't evolved in this sense one iota since the ancient Roman Empire, which gave the world for the first time "sport culture" in their cities' amphitheaters and circuses. Indeed real political lobbies eventually did form around the circus chariot race teams (the reds, the blues, the greens and the whites) known as factiones. And Martial knew 2000 years ago what his political officials understood then, just as today's corporate world still realizes all too well: panem et circensis - give the people "bread and circuses" and you can bend them to your will, control the stadiums and you control them.

So our sport culture, just as it was in the times of the Classical Roman state, exists within this corporate-political structure that will likely prevent real ethical practice from ever being achieved.

Though the first thing that would need to be done, is to break the corporate lobbies which finance the politicians and to place the sport governing bodies themselves under some form of independent regulation and absolutely take them out of self-regulating thier various sports.

Very nicely said. I have to say, you are one of the best posters on here. Always very precise and eloquent!!
 
Jun 15, 2009
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auscyclefan94 said:
i'm saying that people like cadel can't make a too directed comment about him doping because he is in the public eye and is famous and valverde's lawyers could use it as slander or defamation of character. If you or me say it, valverde won't know and the general public won't know so it's alright. To valverde and everyone else in the general public, posters on this forums opinion is insignificant.:(

That is 100% correct of what you say. But important is that the brainwash by lowlifers like Epo-Lance and Valv-Piti cant go on forever, since you and i and others talk with other fans, give links and exchange thinkings about doped up "heroes".

For example: Before joining this forum i had much infos about doping, but now i have even more and discuss this with friends, which will talk to others, which talk to others. In the end: all cheaters will be uncovered and only fanboys live on in their fantasy world. Imagine; before Willy Voet everybody was dreaming (including me) and now more and more pipo wake up. Forums like this help (unless it is disturped by off-topic fanboys) to wake up the dreamers which by accident happen to read the posts made here. So our work is not senseless.:)
 
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FoxxyBrown1111 said:
That is 100% correct of what you say. But important is that the brainwash by lowlifers like Epo-Lance and Valv-Piti cant go on forever, since you and i and others talk with other fans, give links and exchange thinkings about doped up "heroes".

For example: Before joining this forum i had much infos about doping, but now i have even more and discuss this with friends, which will talk to others, which talk to others. In the end: all cheaters will be uncovered and only fanboys live on in their fantasy world. Imagine; before Willy Voet everybody was dreaming (including me) and now more and more pipo wake up. Forums like this help (unless it is disturped by off-topic fanboys) to wake up the dreamers which by accident happen to read the posts made here. So our work is not senseless.:)

ummm ahhhh I see your point. It is sort of like making a posts that goes on about mindless jibber jabber and that leads to your friends talking about it.
Ummm ahhh You know what I mean.
 
Jun 15, 2009
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Riley Martin said:
ummm ahhhh I see your point. It is sort of like making a posts that goes on about mindless jibber jabber and that leads to your friends talking about it.
Ummm ahhh You know what I mean.

Have a good time here Fanboy :rolleyes:

May you learn something or dream on....
 
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back to cadel's swipe

Is it possible Cadel was referring to the unwritten rule of waiting for a contender when he suffers a mechanical or crashes due to bad luck?

I'm unsure of the "rule", but if valverde had of punctured at the exact same spot as cadel did, im pretty sure everyone would have waited for him, right?

Maybe i'm wrong, but i was very confused watching them ride away, and seeing comments from basso, valv after the stage, about how they saw (and discussed on the road) an opportunity to put time into cadel when he punctured coz he was a better time trialist to make up time later.. Perhaps they didnt wait as sanchez had been dropped.. any ideas?
 
Jun 18, 2009
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Mountain Goat said:
Is it possible Cadel was referring to the unwritten rule of waiting for a contender when he suffers a mechanical or crashes due to bad luck?

I'm unsure of the "rule", but if valverde had of punctured at the exact same spot as cadel did, im pretty sure everyone would have waited for him, right?

Maybe i'm wrong, but i was very confused watching them ride away, and seeing comments from basso, valv after the stage, about how they saw (and discussed on the road) an opportunity to put time into cadel when he punctured coz he was a better time trialist to make up time later.. Perhaps they didnt wait as sanchez had been dropped.. any ideas?

I think this was the problem. They had already dropped Sanchez who is a very good time trialist, so if they waited for Cadel, Sanchez would have also gotten back. In the end, of course, they didn't get much time on Sanchez. The other possibility is that they were trying to take advantage of Cadel's puncture. As the rule is a "gentleman's rule", they are under no strict obligation to wait. Of course, I don't think they could ever expect Cadel to wait if anything similar happens in the future! ;)
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Mountain Goat said:
Is it possible Cadel was referring to the unwritten rule of waiting for a contender when he suffers a mechanical or crashes due to bad luck?

I'm unsure of the "rule", but if valverde had of punctured at the exact same spot as cadel did, im pretty sure everyone would have waited for him, right?

Maybe i'm wrong, but i was very confused watching them ride away, and seeing comments from basso, valv after the stage, about how they saw (and discussed on the road) an opportunity to put time into cadel when he punctured coz he was a better time trialist to make up time later.. Perhaps they didnt wait as sanchez had been dropped.. any ideas?

I think it was a combination of things:
-Valverde hiding behind his puppet Contador at the Dauphine
-Valverde's beating twice: Dauphine and Vuelta
-valverde's group not waiting on the climb for cadel
-A cheat like valverde being allowed to race who is involved in a doping scandal and is allowed to race
I think Cobber is right that Cadel won't wait for valverde next time if it happens to him.
 
Jul 29, 2009
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why single out valverde? evans has been beaten by many dopers over the years - and why twitter? why not stand on podium and say something? and why the Foo Fighters and no names? - it's always some conspiratorial chat about the spanish or some punter from kazakhstan

it simply smacks of dishonesty to make juvenile unsubtle hints. time to come 'clean' or shut up- name some ex or current team mates you have direct evidence about- confront someone off the telly - or one of the race organisers and for goodness sake throw OZ and UK/IRE in there (kelly? schiandri? anderson? O Grady? McEwan? GB trackies? OZ doping ring at the institute?) as well as the obvious US candidates...

it all smacks of the stuff english language sites are full of - ooh the schlecks they come from somewhere i can't spell .... ooh they look a bit fast- ooh i hope wadley briggins beats them and i hope cav beats boonen and i hope levi beats contador then i'll sleep easier

i like valverde much more than evans - i also love cancellara and i loved tchmil and ludo the baldy car mechanic - as for doping- the ones i respect are the ones who are frank and specific- even after being caught or retiring - after all they'd be pretty exceptional to turn up to sign on and give the commissars a list........
 
fruit bars with eyes said:
why single out valverde? evans has been beaten by many dopers over the years - and why twitter? why not stand on podium and say something? and why the Foo Fighters and no names? - it's always some conspiratorial chat about the spanish or some punter from kazakhstan

it simply smacks of dishonesty to make juvenile unsubtle hints. time to come 'clean' or shut up- name some ex or current team mates you have direct evidence about- confront someone off the telly - or one of the race organisers and for goodness sake throw OZ and UK/IRE in there (kelly? schiandri? anderson? O Grady? McEwan? GB trackies? OZ doping ring at the institute?) as well as the obvious US candidates...

it all smacks of the stuff english language sites are full of - ooh the schlecks they come from somewhere i can't spell .... ooh they look a bit fast- ooh i hope wadley briggins beats them and i hope cav beats boonen and i hope levi beats contador then i'll sleep easier

i like valverde much more than evans - i also love cancellara and i loved tchmil and ludo the baldy car mechanic - as for doping- the ones i respect are the ones who are frank and specific- even after being caught or retiring - after all they'd be pretty exceptional to turn up to sign on and give the commissars a list........

oooh i paid Fuentes some cash. oooh I work for Riis.

Surely you understand what has happened in the past to those who broke the omerta, and why it's professional suicide to do it.
 
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FoxxyBrown1111 said:
Have a good time here Fanboy :rolleyes:

May you learn something or dream on....

"During my nine day visit with the Biaviians aboard the great mothership, I managed to, uh, get some Polaroid shots of the, uhhh, ships uhhhh, in broad daylight. These are are smart bugs, five feet tall. However, when you learn the potential magnitude of their power coupled with the deductive scope of their reasoning, you are given cause, on occasion, for apprehension. The aliens said some people think they are gods & I told them listen man, you're no god! Not with that big Elmer Fudd head! I said, 'Tan (O-Qua Tangin Wann), if you like Stevie Wonder so much, why don't you cruise by his crib and zap him some eye balls?"


Great for Evans!

Major Congrats. uhhhh you know what I mean.
 
Jul 29, 2009
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Ferminal said:
oooh i paid Fuentes some cash. oooh I work for Riis.

Surely you understand what has happened in the past to those who broke the omerta, and why it's professional suicide to do it.

yes it's clear you can break the code (e.g. bassons or simeoni and no way back now for kohl) or keep a lid on it (e.g. returns for vino/ basso) - what i don't think you can do is hint in public about carefully selected riders as if trying to up-value your own palmares. no doubt VDB and his dog felt hard done by- he was up against musseuw. and rumsas must've felt it was a bit rich getting his camper van busted during the LA years, and if you read freddy maertens book that merckx bloke had a cheek..... and sprinters get 50m put into them by cav on the champs elysees without twittering afterwards about song lyrics- shame really evans did this - because the best response came a week or two later - i am waiting for cancellara to twitter about a few Krokus lyrics now the road race is over....
 

Dr. Maserati

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fruit bars with eyes said:
why single out valverde? evans has been beaten by many dopers over the years - and why twitter? why not stand on podium and say something? and why the Foo Fighters and no names? - it's always some conspiratorial chat about the spanish or some punter from kazakhstan

it simply smacks of dishonesty to make juvenile unsubtle hints. time to come 'clean' or shut up- name some ex or current team mates you have direct evidence about- confront someone off the telly - or one of the race organisers and for goodness sake throw OZ and UK/IRE in there (kelly? schiandri? anderson? O Grady? McEwan? GB trackies? OZ doping ring at the institute?) as well as the obvious US candidates...

it all smacks of the stuff english language sites are full of - ooh the schlecks they come from somewhere i can't spell .... ooh they look a bit fast- ooh i hope wadley briggins beats them and i hope cav beats boonen and i hope levi beats contador then i'll sleep easier

i like valverde much more than evans - i also love cancellara and i loved tchmil and ludo the baldy car mechanic - as for doping- the ones i respect are the ones who are frank and specific- even after being caught or retiring - after all they'd be pretty exceptional to turn up to sign on and give the commissars a list........

To answer your first question - why single out ValVerde, well its pretty simple. He has been recently banned by CONI and yet his own Federation refused to open an investigation on him - he should be sitting out of the sport right now.

As for your other comments on the fact that this is an English speaking website - every country and rider you have mentioned have been discussed on this website and any suspicion acknowledged and noted- perhaps you need to read a lot more posts here.

ValVerde isnt a doper because he is Spanish - he is a doper because the DNA ties him to "bag No. 18" that was sitting in Fuentes fridge.
 
Jul 29, 2009
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Dr. Maserati said:
To answer your first question - why single out ValVerde, well its pretty simple. He has been recently banned by CONI and yet his own Federation refused to open an investigation on him - he should be sitting out of the sport right now.

As for your other comments on the fact that this is an English speaking website - every country and rider you have mentioned have been discussed on this website and any suspicion acknowledged and noted- perhaps you need to read a lot more posts here.

ValVerde isnt a doper because he is Spanish - he is a doper because the DNA ties him to "bag No. 18" that was sitting in Fuentes fridge.

yep- he's in it up to his eyballs - now perhaps you might name me a non-doper- say who has had a podium in a classic or tour since 98 ?
 

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fruit bars with eyes said:
yep- he's in it up to his eyballs - now perhaps you might name me a non-doper- say who has had a podium in a classic or tour since 98 ?

The difference here is that Valverde has been caught- yet not properly sanctioned - which is very different from others who have managed to evade getting caught.

I don't think Evans was lamenting the fact he has been beaten by a doper - more the fact that Valverde should not have been in the race in the first place.
 
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Dr. Maserati said:
The difference here is that Valverde has been caught- yet not properly sanctioned - which is very different from others who have managed to evade getting caught.

I don't think Evans was lamenting the fact he has been beaten by a doper - more the fact that Valverde should not have been in the race in the first place.

yes i agree- fair enough - although the history of the sport is full of those guys who have had the old blind eye turned- it would just have been refreshing if evans had said precisely what he was thinking -the Foo Fighters didn't say it better!
 

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fruit bars with eyes said:
yes i agree- fair enough - although the history of the sport is full of those guys who have had the old blind eye turned- it would just have been refreshing if evans had said precisely what he was thinking -the Foo Fighters didn't say it better!

Agreed - I had assumed that CE was making a reference to Vv - but having read the lyrics, I have little idea what he was saying (again).
 
Dr. Maserati said:
Agreed - I had assumed that CE was making a reference to Vv - but having read the lyrics, I have little idea what he was saying (again).

Well, you just have to realize how Cadel communicates. For example, last year, what he really meant when he said 'stand on my dog and I'll cut your throat' was that he knew Kohl was doping and wasn't happy that he had been beaten by him on that mountain stage. It's pretty clear to me.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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skidmark said:
Well, you just have to realize how Cadel communicates. For example, last year, what he really meant when he said 'stand on my dog and I'll cut your throat' was that he knew Kohl was doping and wasn't happy that he had been beaten by him on that mountain stage. It's pretty clear to me.

How would he know Kohl doped? Why would S/L then sign him?
 
Jun 18, 2009
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skidmark said:
Well, you just have to realize how Cadel communicates. For example, last year, what he really meant when he said 'stand on my dog and I'll cut your throat' was that he knew Kohl was doping and wasn't happy that he had been beaten by him on that mountain stage. It's pretty clear to me.

Nice.


:D
 
Mar 13, 2009
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one has to remember, Cadel has been quite content to get support from Horner, Popovych, Kohl and Dekker.

All those guys are chargers, albeit Horner and Popo have not been implicated.

And Horner was the most overrated helper in 2006, he broke or injured his hand, and was useless. It was Christophe Brandt in 2006. Brandt has been positive. So was Bjorn Leukemans.

Leukemans went positve to testo I think, and then he said the team doctor gave him the product, which he gave to everyone on the team. And this doctor was the one Evans had requested. So said Leukemans, take it for what it is worth.

So, ACF94, do you know of any history. I think you are just a jingoistic Johnny Come lately who latched onto Australia's Evans' fervor and does a Graeme Baxter sports tour.

You come across to me as a very naive and ignorant cycling fan with no real conception about how endemic the problem is.

Personally, I start from a default status that the top tier who win Protour selective Tours, monuments, and stages, are charging. Stage hunters, I am not so certain.

I have even lost my hope in Philippe Gilbert, and other supposedly clean guys. I think that even they will be doing what Millar calls euphemistically, "recovery therapy".
 
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blackcat said:
one has to remember, Cadel has been quite content to get support from Horner, Popovych, Kohl and Dekker.

Nice try mate. So Cadel shouldn't complain about a sanctioned drug cheat being allowed to compete in the Vuelta because he's been "quite content" to be supported by riders who may or may not have been subsequently found to be doping. Pull the other one, it plays jingles bells.
 
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biker jk said:
Nice try mate. So Cadel shouldn't complain about a sanctioned drug cheat being allowed to compete in the Vuelta because he's been "quite content" to be supported by riders who may or may not have been subsequently found to be doping. Pull the other one, it plays jingles bells.

cadel didnt really complain about valverde.. i wish he had....

but, like all riders, there is a certain amount of glass houses and stones involved.. but then, none of these doped riders actually helped him win a tour, so his conscience is half clean at least.. ;)
 
Jun 16, 2009
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blackcat said:
one has to remember, Cadel has been quite content to get support from Horner, Popovych, Kohl and Dekker.

All those guys are chargers, albeit Horner and Popo have not been implicated.

And Horner was the most overrated helper in 2006, he broke or injured his hand, and was useless. It was Christophe Brandt in 2006. Brandt has been positive. So was Bjorn Leukemans.

Leukemans went positve to testo I think, and then he said the team doctor gave him the product, which he gave to everyone on the team. And this doctor was the one Evans had requested. So said Leukemans, take it for what it is worth.

So, ACF94, do you know of any history. I think you are just a jingoistic Johnny Come lately who latched onto Australia's Evans' fervor and does a Graeme Baxter sports tour.

You come across to me as a very naive and ignorant cycling fan with no real conception about how endemic the problem is.

Personally, I start from a default status that the top tier who win Protour selective Tours, monuments, and stages, are charging. Stage hunters, I am not so certain.

I have even lost my hope in Philippe Gilbert, and other supposedly clean guys. I think that even they will be doing what Millar calls euphemistically, "recovery therapy".

For your information I have followed Evans since 2002 at the Giro. That does not make me a Johhny come lately fan.:mad:. Why would it matter if i have latched onto Evans late into his career. Who cares? I am a fan of guy. just to let you know Brandt was cleared of the doping charges as he had a prescription provided and the Belgian federation let him ride again. It was actually in 2004. The prescriptoin was for Metadone which was a supplement for his liver problem.
 
Jul 28, 2009
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auscyclefan94 said:
How would he know Kohl doped? Why would S/L then sign him?
Are you really Odstralian? You seem to play a straight bat to a lot of taking the piss type posts instead of letting them go through to the keeper. You really should be culturally familiar to that stuff. :D