Campagnolo Electronic Gear System for 2011

[Bustedknuckle]

we tend to follow the dotted line. Life is much easier this way[/QUOTE]

"* Campagnolo 9 speed rear derailleurs must be used with 9 speed systems.
* Campagnolo 10 speed rear derailleurs must be used with 10 speed systems.

* Campagnolo systems require the following compatibilities: Short Cage Derailleurs used with all non-triple cranksets using cassettes no larger than 12-25.
* Medium Cage Derailleurs used with non-triple cranksets using 13-29 or larger.
* Long cage derailleurs used with triple cranksets and any choice of rear cassette.

Yep, but above is NOT TRUE. MO places are not 'bike shops', they are part delivery centers.

Where are you? I'll send you a Comp RD.

 

[tubularglue]

....bump....

 

[kiwirider]

Well 9sp to 10sp was definetly an improvement, so I'm picking the obvious answer to your question is yes.

As to whether 11 speed is an improvement:

Unofficial quote from Campagnolo employee to a bike shop owning buddy of mine at a major international bike show as to why they developed 11:
"... we knew when we developed 10 that - unlike our competitors' products - there was space on the hub for 11, so we developed it just to show the other manufacturers that we could ..."

I know that this is hearsay since I wasn't there, but I trust my buddy and he has no real reason to make it up (especially as he is also a die hard Campag fan). So ... take it as you will ...

 

[slisk250]

Lots of haters about this I guess. Why? What did this product ever do to you? You don't want to run it then don't. You like it then buy it. Why roll up on someone and tell them why their Di2 sucks? What do you care? I still run Campy 10 and bought a few extra parts a few years ago to keep the groups running fine for as long as I'll ever need them. 11 speed sounded great but I figured I'd wait until the Electro Record and maybe that wait will only be another year. What excites me the most is the possibility the shifting could be sequential like the Di2 system that was modified and presented on a MTB at Interbike (developed by Fairwheel). Another cool possibility is a switch to change the brain programming from sequential to standard to suit the rider's flavor of the day. Advancing technology can only add interest and make riding more fun for those who want to pay for it. It does nothing to injure those who do not. Everyone has their preferences. I'm sure I'll give this group a try when it is released. Campy makes sexy equipment that I always have fun using.

 

[veganrob]

I absolutely will have it on my bike when it comes out. The jump from 10 to 11sp was great. Not just because of one more gear, but because it was another gear right where you want it. The shift levers are much smoother and the far more ergonomic than 10sp. And, the price was not any greater. Win, win, win.
I did put the Di2 on several bikes this year and it is very nice. Built a demo bike with it and sold 5 gruppos. One bike sale last year totally depended on my ability to put Di2 on Ceepo Viper and still have easily accessible water bottle on down tube. It had not been done before, but I did it and got a $12000 sale. Nice
What it all comes down to is what one likes. That is it. Are you happy with it?No points to prove.

 

[ElChingon]

Yea, a lot of people turn the hate on the anything electronic, not sure why but I think it has to do with the whole old style of being a bike in the first place, for some.

I have used Electronic shifting before, mainly the Mektronic and think its great its coming back again. I only wish they would of moved forward with no wires instead of going back a step and including wires. I also don't really care for the huge battery pack, that's a show stopper for me. I wonder if they would even offer a rear only electronic shifter? It wouldn't require the huge battery, I don't mind the wire for only the front derailure.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

I'm holding out for telepathic shifting. Think about it... really!!

 

[oldborn]

After Ergo levers, and clipless pedal there is nothing that can so much improve anything, that was revolution as i can say like that. It is prestige by me.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

After Ergo levers, and clipless pedal there is nothing that can so much improve anything, that was revolution as i can say like that. It is prestige by me.

hear, hear! After click shifting and clipless pedals, nothing really innovative since the 80s..

 

[oldborn]

hear, hear! After click shifting and clipless pedals, nothing really innovative since the 80s..

Just name something with such a revolutionary and practical efect. If you think of new materials, there was materials before this is just upgrade, if you think on 8-9-10 spd, so for 4 years we gonna have 15 spd, if you think on design we can discuss also. I mean it will be nice to have Di2, but I and lot of pros can live without it, without ergolevers, and pedals hmmm....
I forgot Simplex cable-shifted derailleur

 

[TheDude]

Anything is better than Simplex...
But back to topic. I have 2 sets of 2009 Centaur 10-speed. One is still boxed to go on a new (old) frame. I'll be on Campy 10-speed for quite a while. That said, I think it is great that they can offer something that some folks will want. To me it is really too bad that Campagnolo can't get themselves on high-end mass-market bikes in the US. My choice has been to buy a frame and build, but that is not for everybody.

 

[oldborn]

Anything is better than Simplex....

Yes you are just wright, but that is not my point. When we look at that times 1930-1940, the cable-shifted derailleur was biger step forward than Di2 today. It is just another way to move chain arround for 1770 euro

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Yes you are just wright, but that is not my point. When we look at that times 1930-1940, the cable-shifted derailleur was biger step forward than Di2 today. It is just another way to move chain arround for 1770 euro

You can say that twice. The ability to have 4 or 5 cogs in the back and being able to shift to them while riding was HUGE..why the TdF didn't have such things until much later. DesGrange thought they were the things of cyclo tourists and nurses.

 

[LugHugger]

I'm pretty sure electronic shifting *is* fixing a problem: shifting.

Cable actuation is far from ideal, and wrought with problems. Electronic will solve much of it, basically a perfect shift every time in any conditions. (People using it for CX are *loving* it.)

What's not to like about it?

Electronics shrink and get lighter at a very rapid rate...so soon we'll be looking at even lighter components. Wireless will come in, and even the cables will be gone for even smoother lines, and less hassle (other than syncing parts up!)

Why do MTBs come with hydrolic brakes instead of cable?

No one's going to stop anyone from remaining in the manual/cable camp, but i don't see the point if remaining there, if quality is actually a consideration.

Actually, not all people using Di2 for cross are loving it. The loss of ability to down shift across the block is a major disadvantage in a cross race.

Now, I have no idea if you have ever raced cross but going from 15-20mph to a standing start is not unusual. The additional time need to shift using Di2 is disadvantageous.

 

[veganrob]

Actually, not all people using Di2 for cross are loving it. The loss of ability to down shift across the block is a major disadvantage in a cross race.

Now, I have no idea if you have ever raced cross but going from 15-20mph to a standing start is not unusual. The additional time need to shift using Di2 is disadvantageous.

Downshifting multiple gears at a time does not seem to be preventing Sram from being the most popular shifters on the CX circuit.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Downshifting multiple gears at a time does not seem to be preventing Sram from being the most popular shifters on the CX circuit.

Whaddyoumean? Double tap downshifts 3 cogs at a time if need be.

 

[LugHugger]

Downshifting multiple gears at a time does not seem to be preventing Sram from being the most popular shifters on the CX circuit.

Have you ever used SRAM?

Edit: Just saw RdV's response. And you work in a bike shop, Rob. Dare I ask you to name the shop????!!!!!!

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Downshifting multiple gears at a time does not seem to be preventing Sram from being the most popular shifters on the CX circuit.

sram downshifts(shifts to lower gear, bigger cog) 1, 2, or 3 cogs at a time. Upshift(highrer gear, smaller cog) one at a time, like shimano. Di2, one at a time in either direction.

As for guy to ask, 'what's not to like' about electronic..easy-price. Yep, it'll get cheaper but it's never going to be 'cheap'. You can many bicycles, complete with pedals, good ones with mid level gruppos or the price of Di2 9 piece group.

It shifts no better(worse if you consider number of gears selected at a time) but the shifting is more consistent over time. Gotta answer the question yourself if this is more important than the big $. Plus consider if you fall and kill a Di2 shifter-almost $1000(pairs only thanks) or a RD-$750...both? yowser.

Why sram is all over cross?...easy, cuz it's cheap(if ya pay for it) or really cheap (cheaper-$free.99) if you want a sponsorship. sram has really deep pockets right now. We'll see if that continues, as they warranty more and more so freely.

 

[veganrob]

Sorry, meant upshift. My mistake. But Sram is still most popular in cross because it works.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Sorry, meant upshift. My mistake. But Sram is still most popular in cross because it works.

Hey no problem, easy mistake getting caught up in the semantics of terminology.

I think the #1 reason SRAM rules CX, aside from cost, is that it's mechanically correct for frantic shifting. No accidental brake grabs as with Shimano, and no bat wings getting in the way as with Campagnolo. I still do prefer Campy for road, but I did equip my most recent road rig with SRAM Red. Campy is always going to be #1 in my book on the road regardless of electronic or not, just for the simple fact of the availability of spare parts to rebuild, unlike the Asian mfg's you've got to toss it in the garbage if it breaks. Next road bike is getting a Campy grouppo, whether it's electronic or not depends on how much money I can save when I get to that point.

 

[LugHugger]

OK. And yes, SRAM is popular in cross because it is fit for purpose - and because it is cheap. Both of which can not be said for Di2 in it's current offer. Now, I'm no luddite (see my input to discs in 'cross thread) but imho Di2 exists for no reason other than Shimano to showcase technology.

Seriously, once you have your bike correctly set up, how much time do you spend fettling. One or two hours per year? Now, unless you are a Hollywood lawyer, I doubt that your time is worth the investment in Di2 - or Campag's offer.

My $0.02.

 

[Michele]

As I guess it's related to the topic, Shimano confirmed that they will put on the market an eletronic/eletric Ultegra on 2012.

 

[kiwirider]

I think the #1 reason SRAM rules CX, aside from cost, is that it's mechanically correct for frantic shifting. No accidental brake grabs as with Shimano, and no bat wings getting in the way as with Campagnolo.

Not so long ago, I had an email conversation with Simon Burney - as in the former top level coach and author of the book/bible "Cyclocross" - that included the topic of which gruppo to go for in cross.

His view was that of the three, Campag is still the best for cross - in part because of those "bat wings", but mainly for the combination of robustness and the ease of multiple shifts. He also liked the fact that weekend warriors could buy a lower level gruppo and be effectively buying the same functionality as in a top level gruppo.

That said, his new bike had apparently come with SRAM and he was developing a liking for it, although at that stage his vote was still going Italy's way ...

In his assessment, Shimano came bottom of the heap because the levers were easier to pack with dirt and/or break when you crash ...

And I'm with Lughugger on the theory that SRAM is "buying votes" amongst the cross fraternity ... I mean, stands to reason - fast growing sector of the market, up against a strong incumbent in Shimano, new product that has better functionality but (because it's new) no track record, offer the product cheapily to get it out and seen ... Sounds uncannily similar to the situation with X.0 in MTB racing a few years back ...

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Not so long ago, I had an email conversation with Simon Burney - as in the former top level coach and author of the book/bible "Cyclocross" - that included the topic of which gruppo to go for in cross.

His view was that of the three, Campag is still the best for cross - in part because of those "bat wings", but mainly for the combination of robustness and the ease of multiple shifts. He also liked the fact that weekend warriors could buy a lower level gruppo and be effectively buying the same functionality as in a top level gruppo.

That said, his new bike had apparently come with SRAM and he was developing a liking for it, although at that stage his vote was still going Italy's way ...

In his assessment, Shimano came bottom of the heap because the levers were easier to pack with dirt and/or break when you crash ...

And I'm with Lughugger on the theory that SRAM is "buying votes" amongst the cross fraternity ... I mean, stands to reason - fast growing sector of the market, up against a strong incumbent in Shimano, new product that has better functionality but (because it's new) no track record, offer the product cheapily to get it out and seen ... Sounds uncannily similar to the situation with X.0 in MTB racing a few years back ...

FYI,,, I've used all three for CX and SRAM's doubletap gets my vote for #1 CX friendly, Campy 2nd, Shimano 3rd..

All being said about this, as we kinda hijacked this thread and turned it into a CX debate, I will ultimately go single speed for a regular CX set up. I find that when off road geared bikes are more of a problem than a benefit, especially at club level racing.

 

[kiwirider]

FYI,,, I've used all three for CX and SRAM's doubletap gets my vote for #1 CX friendly, Campy 2nd, Shimano 3rd..

All being said about this, as we kinda hijacked this thread and turned it into a CX debate, I will ultimately go single speed for a regular CX set up. I find that when off road geared bikes are more of a problem than a benefit, especially at club level racing.

I've used all three as well and my ranking would be Campag 1st, Shimano 2nd and SRAM 3rd.

While I've got no doubt about the Campag ranking, I still surprise myself with the other two - I love the SRAM on my MTB and basically have never enjoyed riding Shimano on a roadie (or an MTB for that matter), but I just really didn't like the SRAM on the cross bike ...