Campagnolo Electronic Gear System for 2011

[masking_agent]

I'm old school and come from the days of Campy "friction shifting." Wow! Times have changed !! I can't wait to see how this performs in 2011 ? I'm eager to hear cyclists compare it with the Di2 system.

I'm glad to see that Campy responded to Shimano Di2's sytem.

I don't know however, when we'll see another tour podium for Campy ?
Hopefully soon.

I'm sure as the weeks and months go by, there will be reviews and discussions about it.

I'm interested to hear your individual thoughts ?

 

[bridgeman]

Me too. That's why I'm checking in here this moring.

 

[Black Dog]

The full reviews should be interesting. I suspect that is will be as good as DI2 or they would not have released it.

 

[kiwirider]

Someone's got to be the first detractor - today it looks like it'll be my turn ...

To me this is just another bit of proof that change doesn't always equal progress. As far as I'm concerned, electronic groupsets are an answer to a problem that doesn't exist. As a long time Campag user - and big fan - I'm disappointed that my purchases over the past few years have been inflated to fund the development of an electronic groupset ... (Yes, I realise that the amount per component that goes to new product development will be small, so the comment is made more as a matter of principle than economics.)

To me, this is just another example of the combined effect of the gear freak attitude of the average recreational racer/rider (which I define as everyone who isn't pro or elite level amateur) and the law of diminishing returns pushing the manufacturers to grasp at straws to find new developments to bring to the market.

This groupset may even be a step backward from their current offerings. My comment is based on the fact that Di2 only allows single gear shifts. That's not so much of an issue for Shimano - given how their cable STI's work. However, Campag has always had the ability to drive the thumb shift across the entire block in one go and go back three gears at a time on the long lever. So, if - and pure conjecture here - it is only possible to get electric servos working one gear at a time, that would make the electronic Campag a distinct step down from the cable equivalent ... Staying on the conjecture bandwagon, I'd be guessing that this issue may be part of why Campag has taken so long to get a product "to market".

Regardless, doesn't worry me - I will only buy an electric groupset if everyone stops making cable operated units ... and that ain't looking likely any time soon ...

 

[fiftyfour eleven]

I find it interesting that people like kiwirider could make the sort of comments he makes about electronic systems when its patently obvious that he hasn't spent anytime riding it. It's akin to writing a book review without reading the book!

 

[kiwirider]

I find it interesting that people like kiwirider could make the sort of comments he makes about electronic systems when its patently obvious that he hasn't spent anytime riding it. It's akin to writing a book review without reading the book!

Your comments apply equally - or even more - to those who are excitedly awaiting the arrival of these systems.

And interesting how you know that I've never ridden and electronic system ... whereas I could've sworn that I'd tried Di2, but maybe I was imagining things ...

To my mind, there is no advantage from an electronic system - and I honestly believe that their development is change for change's sake rather than progress. But if you have ridden an electronic system and enjoy it - then good for you, and I'm glad that you've found a set up that you like. But don't bag me for having a different opinion to yours - especially when, in your passing your opinion of me, you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[maximus1970]

I like the look of the lever instead of buttons. I'd imagine it would be more intuitive to be able to push a single lever up or down depending on which way you'd want to shift. Kind of like....down tube shifters!

I wonder if they are sensitive to how far you push? Small nudge one gear, big push 2 or maybe hold down and keeps clicking through the gears until you release.

It's those sort of nuances that campag/shimano/sram spend the time perfecting.

I wonder if there's a front / rear combination shift option built in? i.e. your in the 53 x 19, you press "up" in effect asking for the 21 and instead the system drops it into the 39 and gives you the 17 or whatever. Like the idea of being able to customise that sort of frimware.

 

[TheDude]

Shimano wasn't first. Anybody remember the Mavic electronic system from the '90s? Cannondale has had electronic in a few iterations for several years. I remember some "spy" photos form probably 2005 with one or two riders on Campy electronic gear in various races.

The fact it is being shown at a press event does mean that it should be available to market in the 2012 lineup. Personally, I would rather get another 2009/2010 Centaru carbon groupset to make the most of my Campy 10-speed investment.

 

[fiftyfour eleven]

Your comments apply equally - or even more - to those who are excitedly awaiting the arrival of these systems.

And interesting how you know that I've never ridden and electronic system ... whereas I could've sworn that I'd tried Di2, but maybe I was imagining things ...

To my mind, there is no advantage from an electronic system - and I honestly believe that their development is change for change's sake rather than progress. But if you have ridden an electronic system and enjoy it - then good for you, and I'm glad that you've found a set up that you like. But don't bag me for having a different opinion to yours - especially when, in your passing your opinion of me, you don't know what you're talking about.

Tried it isn't using it week on week kiwirider. The only conclusions you could draw from using it in a brief static trial is that it shifts quickly & accurately.(and forever I might add) Thats hardly a test of it's true potential. I wonder how you felt when Index gearing came onto the market?

 

[tubularglue]

campy assesment:

customer comes in last week, needs a replacement for longcage rear campy der. for his triple. 9spd.

quess what, campy does not make them anymore. sure they offer them from distributors, but distributors cannot get them anymore.

so i am extremely disappointed in campy general lack of support regarding legacy components. Ebay for a bike shop is not what a shop should be offering.

electric campy, as my eyes roll backwards into my eye sockets, is for a show bikes to hang on a wall.

their Serviceability (now i am ****ed over just the idea of it) picture me rolling on the floor laughing, with snot and teardrops soaking into my wood floor.

Shimano has dialed into the backward compatability game. Those other companies just cannot add that idea into their bottom line. Never thought i would be swaying across oceans. Durace electric.......don't get me thinking about it

just a moment of thought

 

[tubularglue]

for all you patent heads who like images

diagrams in .pdf's / example - http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7373232.pdf direct link to electric shifting

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/result.html?query_txt=+campagnolo&sort=relevance&srch=top&search=

 

[Boeing]

all those years of arrogance and assumed superior engineering put campy to the back of the pack and they are late to the dance again

I dig their Fulcrum line however

 

[laziali]

Shimano wasn't first. Anybody remember the Mavic electronic system from the '90s? .

Mavic Zapp. It was truly ****e. For me, the jury remains out and skeptical on Di2 and campy. As kiwi said, seems like a solution in search of a problem

 

[Milessio]

Whoa!

Even when Campy do finally release it to the public, it won't be forced on everybody - YOU CAN RESIST!

I have bikes with 8spd & 10spd groupsets & won't automatically upgrade, as they still work perfectly well.

I can see advantages in having multiple gear changing locations for my tt bike, and for cyclocross bikes. Tandems would also benefit from electric activation.
Integration with other bike electronics; computers & power meters etc & internal cabling would be advantages too to a lesser extent.

Please get some balance people.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

campy assesment:

customer comes in last week, needs a replacement for longcage rear campy der. for his triple. 9spd.

quess what, campy does not make them anymore. sure they offer them from distributors, but distributors cannot get them anymore.

so i am extremely disappointed in campy general lack of support regarding legacy components. Ebay for a bike shop is not what a shop should be offering.

electric campy, as my eyes roll backwards into my eye sockets, is for a show bikes to hang on a wall.

their Serviceability (now i am ****ed over just the idea of it) picture me rolling on the floor laughing, with snot and teardrops soaking into my wood floor.

Shimano has dialed into the backward compatability game. Those other companies just cannot add that idea into their bottom line. Never thought i would be swaying across oceans. Durace electric.......don't get me thinking about it

just a moment of thought

What the bike shop doesn't seem to know, since they believe what they read, not actually trying it, is that the now made Comp RD works just fine with older Campagnolo 9s (and 8s) ERGO systems w/o any modification.

1992 ERGO levers can still be overhauled, 10s RD and FD can be used with all older Campagnolo click shifting. Both companies have developed incompatibility(shimano Uniglide->hyperglide, DA 8s for instance and now shimano MTB rear ders not being compatible with shimano road STI).

Most bike shops are lazy and any LBS that doesn't fully understand this stuff by actually trying it is supplying BS to the customer. BUT most LBS just want to sell the latest gizmo anyway.

-Bike shop owner-MY rant off.

 

[Vegan Dave]

I'm pretty sure electronic shifting *is* fixing a problem: shifting.

Cable actuation is far from ideal, and wrought with problems. Electronic will solve much of it, basically a perfect shift every time in any conditions. (People using it for CX are *loving* it.)

What's not to like about it?

Electronics shrink and get lighter at a very rapid rate...so soon we'll be looking at even lighter components. Wireless will come in, and even the cables will be gone for even smoother lines, and less hassle (other than syncing parts up!)

Why do MTBs come with hydrolic brakes instead of cable?

No one's going to stop anyone from remaining in the manual/cable camp, but i don't see the point if remaining there, if quality is actually a consideration.

 

[craptastic]

Does this mean we can expect "I forgot to charge the batteries" as excuses for losing races in the future?

 

[Benotti69]

I'm old school and come from the days of Campy "friction shifting." Wow! Times have changed !! I can't wait to see how this performs in 2011 ? I'm eager to hear cyclists compare it with the Di2 system.

I'm glad to see that Campy responded to Shimano Di2's sytem.

I don't know however, when we'll see another tour podium for Campy ?
Hopefully soon.

I'm sure as the weeks and months go by, there will be reviews and discussions about it.

I'm interested to hear your individual thoughts ?

did they not win the Giro and Vuelta this year with Liquigas?

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Does this mean we can expect "I forgot to charge the batteries" as excuses for losing races in the future?

Yah... I was wondering when someone would ask about the reliability of the battery unit.
Anyone heard how long a single battery charge will last?
Or how long the battery unit will survive before needing replacement?
What type of battery (e.g. Ni-metal hydride)?
Cost to replace?

 

[kiwirider]

I'm pretty sure electronic shifting *is* fixing a problem: shifting.

Cable actuation is far from ideal, and wrought with problems. Electronic will solve much of it, basically a perfect shift every time in any conditions. (People using it for CX are *loving* it.)

What's not to like about it?

Electronics shrink and get lighter at a very rapid rate...so soon we'll be looking at even lighter components. Wireless will come in, and even the cables will be gone for even smoother lines, and less hassle (other than syncing parts up!)

Why do MTBs come with hydrolic brakes instead of cable?

No one's going to stop anyone from remaining in the manual/cable camp, but i don't see the point if remaining there, if quality is actually a consideration.

I can't believe the number of people out there who keep saying that cable shifting is "wrought with problems" or similar comments. I can't remember when I last changed my cables on my roadie (Record Ergo & F/Der, Chorus R/Der) or my MTB (X.0 gripshift & R/Der, XTR 950 F/Der). I do remember when I changed them on my cross bike - when I ditched the Shimano Tiagra for Campag Veloce. In all cases, I haven't had any cable related hassles with my shifting. In fact, the cross bike kept shifting well even after a full season of race abuse and a winter of snow riding. Apart from in winter when I'm skiing, I do something in the region of 500-600km/week, and I'm no genius mechanic - so if I can set my bikes up to give trouble free shifting, I'm going to say that pretty much anyone can.

I get most of my shifting problems from things like bent derailleur hangers, crap in the chain and cassette, worn derailleur linkages (snow and ginter grit do wonders for that) and general crud in the rear derailleur. Unless someone manages to build an electronic system with some form of artificial intelligence (so that it can identify the problem and "know" how to correct it), those problems will persist.

The comparison to hydraulic disc brakes is spurious because the forces needed to move a derailleur are significantly less than the forces needed to clamp disc calipers onto a brake disc at high speed (when hydraulic can have a clear advantage).

 

[kiwirider]

Yah... I was wondering when someone would ask about the reliability of the battery unit.
Anyone heard how long a single battery charge will last?
Or how long the battery unit will survive before needing replacement?
What type of battery (e.g. Ni-metal hydride)?
Cost to replace?

For a comparison/possible indication, this is from the Di2 release information on CN/Bike Radar back in August 2008:

Battery (SM-BT79) – 68g

Dura-Ace Di2 uses a compact 7.4V Li-ion battery that will last for approximately 1000k (621mi) of "heavy use" and will recharge in just 1.5 hours. Extensive testing has also reportedly shown excellent sealing and reliability "in challenging conditions".

Shimano says it ultimately went with a wired system to save weight as a wireless setup would require three (or even four) separate batteries: one for the rear derailleur, one for the front derailleur, and one or two for the Dual Control levers. Moreover, the wired configuration should prove more reliable over the long-term

Price: Battery - £49.99
Charger - £49.99

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

For a comparison/possible indication, this is from the Di2 release information on CN/Bike Radar back in August 2008:

Battery (SM-BT79) – 68g

Dura-Ace Di2 uses a compact 7.4V Li-ion battery that will last for approximately 1000k (621mi) of "heavy use" and will recharge in just 1.5 hours. Extensive testing has also reportedly shown excellent sealing and reliability "in challenging conditions".

Shimano says it ultimately went with a wired system to save weight as a wireless setup would require three (or even four) separate batteries: one for the rear derailleur, one for the front derailleur, and one or two for the Dual Control levers. Moreover, the wired configuration should prove more reliable over the long-term

Price: Battery - £49.99
Charger - £49.99

Compared to the price of the entire component group, that is fairly reasonable IMO. I can see two benefits of electronic gearing being no cable tension adjustments or lubrication required.

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

If cyclists weren't stupid enough to buy the crap, no one would build it. I mean, do you really think an 11-sp cluster is an improvement over a 10-sp?

 

[tubularglue]

What the bike shop doesn't seem to know, since they believe what they read, not actually trying it, is that the now made Comp RD works just fine with older Campagnolo 9s (and 8s) ERGO systems w/o any modification.

1992 ERGO levers can still be overhauled, 10s RD and FD can be used with all older Campagnolo click shifting. Both companies have developed incompatibility(shimano Uniglide->hyperglide, DA 8s for instance and now shimano MTB rear ders not being compatible with shimano road STI).

Most bike shops are lazy and any LBS that doesn't fully understand this stuff by actually trying it is supplying BS to the customer. BUT most LBS just want to sell the latest gizmo anyway.

we need to replace a r. der. to match a still working 9spd cassette/chain/ergolevers. We cannot find any Comp RD in stock anywhere. Such is the problem

This was never a problem where rebuilding the ergo levers (which we do) and matching it up with new and expensive 10spd derailleurs was an option. This was/and is a rant about how our 4 campy dist. offer the triple der., to order in their catalogs, and never have them in stock.

And so the conundrum continues

Shimano fully supports all 9speed options in regards to cassettes/sti/chains/der.'s for the time being. I suppose this will fade also.

p.s. It has become a sad state of affairs telling a customer that we cannot get what they want, but they can log into the interwebs and find what they need from a retail distributor or ebay. And no we don't offer that info. with a smile. Who is to blame. New World Ordering

this is the type of stuff our customers read:

Rear Derailleurs

Campagnolo derailleurs must be used with Campagnolo systems and Shimano derailleurs with Shimano systems.

* Shimano 9 and 10 Speed derailleurs are compatible.
* Campagnolo 9 speed rear derailleurs must be used with 9 speed systems.
* Campagnolo 10 speed rear derailleurs must be used with 10 speed systems.

* Campagnolo systems require the following compatibilities: Short Cage Derailleurs used with all non-triple cranksets using cassettes no larger than 12-25.
* Medium Cage Derailleurs used with non-triple cranksets using 13-29 or larger.
* Long cage derailleurs used with triple cranksets and any choice of rear cassette.

http://www.excelsports.com/wdisplayhb.asp

we tend to follow the dotted line. Life is much easier this way

 

[M Sport]

If cyclists weren't stupid enough to buy the crap, no one would build it. I mean, do you really think an 11-sp cluster is an improvement over a 10-sp?

Well 9sp to 10sp was definetly an improvement, so I'm picking the obvious answer to your question is yes.

I wouldn't buy an electronic groupset though, not until the price comes right down. I tested one for a weekend and sure it's marginally better but not worth double the price.