Can any riders based in Spain be considered clean ?

[Dear Wiggo]

The most noticeable thing about that list is how short it is. Most countries aren't on it, where are the Brits for instance? At least the Spanish knew how to do ABP tests for cycling.

There's a country list posted somewhere else!

 

[GreasyMonkey]

Is Tenerife considered part of Spain?

Clearly the OOC testing must not rely solely on the country itself?

The Canary Islands (of which Tenerife is one) is Spanish territory, so yes.

 

[Justinr]

Totally the opposite. The big flaw in cycling, along with Tennis and Football is the Governing Body is responsible for over half of the testing.

It should not be that way.

Well yes thats true - my point was more that someone needs to get a grip and coordinate it all because at the moment it clearly isnt.

 

[Justinr]

Um.

No.

Brailsford tells you his magical seatpost bolts story and you believe him in an instant. I hate to think how easily you'd be hoodwinked that his riders are cleans without any corroborating evidence whatsoever.

Well actually that was in a program about BC that highlighted the extent they went to researching every inch of their bikes

 

[timmers]

Well actually that was in a program about BC that highlighted the extent they went to researching every inch of their bikes

Well get Dear Wiggo to worry about Aussies and you as a new participant can analyse British results and report on British Cycling/Team Sky.

You may note despite Dear Wiggo's outrage no investigation of confessed doper Stuart O'Grady appears to have started in Australia! I just hope that DW has raised the matter with the Australian Anti-Doping Authorities given that Porte and Earle are Aussies as well and may have been taken to the dark side by the bad fellows at BC/Team Sky!

 

[Justinr]

Well actually that was in a program about BC that highlighted the extent they went to researching every inch of their bikes

And i did say that i had had a couple of beers

 

[Benotti69]

Well get Dear Wiggo to worry about Aussies and you as a new participant can analyse British results and report on British Cycling/Team Sky.

You may note despite Dear Wiggo's outrage no investigation of confessed doper Stuart O'Grady appears to have started in Australia! I just hope that DW has raised the matter with the Australian Anti-Doping Authorities given that Porte and Earle are Aussies as well and may have been taken to the dark side by the bad fellows at BC/Team Sky!

Yeah Mick Rogers was an angel till he went to Sky/BC and they 'poisoned' him with PEDS...........

 

[neineinei]

There's a country list posted somewhere else!

Yes, but the list you posted is the COMPLETE list of testing authorities that did ABP testing in cycling in 2012, the year of the London Olympics. It shows 100% of the ABP testing in cycling. UK Ant-doping did ABP testing, but none in cycling. And British Cycling didn't do any either. They left that to Pat and his crew.

Bradley Wiggins was ABP tested exactly zero times by his national federation and NADO the year he won TdF and ITT Olympic gold. The same goes for TdF runner up, Vuelta 4th and ITT Olympic bronze medal winner, Chris Froome, not ABP tested even once by his national federation or NADO. It was up to Pat to ABP test them. Wiggins, Froome, Cavendish and the rest of the British Olympic road race team was ABP tested by their national federation and NADO just as many times as Uran and Vinokurov was. 0 times.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Yes, but the list you posted is the COMPLETE list of testing authorities that did ABP testing in cycling in 2012, the year of the London Olympics. It shows 100% of the ABP testing in cycling. UK Ant-doping did ABP testing, but none in cycling. And British Cycling didn't do any either. They left that to Pat and his crew.

Bradley Wiggins was ABP tested exactly zero times by his national federation and NADO the year he won TdF and ITT Olympic gold. The same goes for TdF runner up, Vuelta 4th and ITT Olympic bronze medal winner, Chris Froome, not ABP tested even once by his national federation or NADO. It was up to Pat to ABP test them. Wiggins, Froome, Cavendish and the rest of the British Olympic road race team was ABP tested by their national federation and NADO just as many times as Uran and Vinokurov was. 0 times.

Ah, I had seen the list but not considered the ramifications of the data within its silken folds.

And now that you mention it, it does stink a bit, innit?

Bleh.

 

[Ferminal]

Sad it took so many posts for a bit of sanity.

The last decent rider busted from a NADO issued OoC test..?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Sad it took so many posts for a bit of sanity.

The last decent rider busted from a NADO issued test... uhh when AFLD were testing in the Tour?

Clear evidence that the peloton has cleaned up, surely.

 

[Benotti69]

Clear evidence that the peloton has cleaned up, surely.

I have been saying it all along, the culture of doping never stopped. Guys like JV started selling it because they were doing internal testing to ensure his guys were not going to test positive, therefore no positives = clean cycling.

The testing is a joke. I always believed BP was a way for teams to manage doping.

 

[Digger]

Yes, but the list you posted is the COMPLETE list of testing authorities that did ABP testing in cycling in 2012, the year of the London Olympics. It shows 100% of the ABP testing in cycling. UK Ant-doping did ABP testing, but none in cycling. And British Cycling didn't do any either. They left that to Pat and his crew.

Bradley Wiggins was ABP tested exactly zero times by his national federation and NADO the year he won TdF and ITT Olympic gold. The same goes for TdF runner up, Vuelta 4th and ITT Olympic bronze medal winner, Chris Froome, not ABP tested even once by his national federation or NADO. It was up to Pat to ABP test them. Wiggins, Froome, Cavendish and the rest of the British Olympic road race team was ABP tested by their national federation and NADO just as many times as Uran and Vinokurov was. 0 times.

hey, do you have a link or source for this? I was going to post it on twitter. It's insane.

 

[Netserk]

Sad it took so many posts for a bit of sanity.

The last decent rider busted from a NADO issued OoC test..?

Chicken

 

[DirtyWorks]

hey, do you have a link or source for this? I was going to post it on twitter. It's insane.

#1 It is exactly how the system is supposed to work. Anti-doping theater.

#2 Here's the original post: http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1429024&postcount=16
The whole report: http://www.wada-ama.org/Documents/R...012-Anti-Doping-Testing-Figures-Report-EN.pdf

 

[neineinei]

#1 It is exactly how the system is supposed to work. Anti-doping theater.

#2 Here's the original post: http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1429024&postcount=16
The whole report: http://www.wada-ama.org/Documents/R...012-Anti-Doping-Testing-Figures-Report-EN.pdf

Yes, that.


This whole thread is based on something Daniel Benson wrote in in the article "Does Colombia's anti-doping stand up to scrutiny?"

He interviews Brailsford about the Henao case. Brailsford confirms what Fran Millar wrote in some tweets earlier, neither Henao nor Uran had been tested as Sky riders OOC for the Athletes Biological Passport (ABP) while in Colombia, until last October. Then he points out that it isn't only in Colombia there has been little ABP testing done, the Spanish Federation did only 3 ABP tests in 2012, but says nothing of the zero ABP tests done by the Brits the same year.

The answer to the question asked in the name of this thread, Can any riders based in Spain be considered clean ?, is no. No athletes can be considered clean on the basis of the anti-doping work done today. It doesn't matter if they are in Spain, UK or Colombia.

Anti-doping is a charade. If you don't want to believe that we can instead look at some other testing numbers. While UK Anti-Doping did zero ABP tests in cycling in 2012, they did other tests in cycling:

106 IC and 163 OOC urine tests and 10 IC + 4 OOC blood tests, in all 283 tests. Which is something, but still less than both the Colombian NADO (379 tests) and the Spanish Federation (485 tests).

http://www.wada-ama.org/Documents/R...012-Anti-Doping-Testing-Figures-Report-EN.pdf (Table G11, page 68)

 

[DirtyWorks]

106 IC and 163 OOC urine tests and 10 IC + 4 OOC blood tests, in all 283 tests. Which is something, but still less than both the Colombian NADO (379 tests) and the Spanish Federation (485 tests).

http://www.wada-ama.org/Documents/R...012-Anti-Doping-Testing-Figures-Report-EN.pdf (Table G11, page 68)

The "business end" of doping in cycling is not found in urine tests. A positive would be failing the very simple doping IQ test. Which, is one reason why low-ranked athletes tend to get popped. The other being, low-ranked athletes have less sporting value, very likely will not aggressively defend the positive, and therefore make good theater.

 

[Ripper]

Yes, but the list you posted is the COMPLETE list of testing authorities that did ABP testing in cycling in 2012, the year of the London Olympics. It shows 100% of the ABP testing in cycling. UK Ant-doping did ABP testing, but none in cycling. And British Cycling didn't do any either. They left that to Pat and his crew.

Bradley Wiggins was ABP tested exactly zero times by his national federation and NADO the year he won TdF and ITT Olympic gold. The same goes for TdF runner up, Vuelta 4th and ITT Olympic bronze medal winner, Chris Froome, not ABP tested even once by his national federation or NADO. It was up to Pat to ABP test them. Wiggins, Froome, Cavendish and the rest of the British Olympic road race team was ABP tested by their national federation and NADO just as many times as Uran and Vinokurov was. 0 times.

Wow, some pretty interesting stuff here that I was unaware of. Just curious - any idea how many times Wiggins was tested by the UCI and are the results of these tests much publicized (or are they less believed)?

 

[Hugh Januss]

Given the number of out of competition blood tests done in Spain, or lack of more accurately, can any rider be considered clean if they are based in Spain:

"
Around the World

For a greater sense of a global perspective there were a total of 4,352 bio passport out-of-competition blood tests in 2012 in cycling with 3,262 of those directly coming from the UCI. Compare Colombia's lack of tests with Spain's national federation, who conducted just three tests in the same period and one can ascertain that out-of-competition blood tests are well below the in-competition number. For reference the Republic of Ireland carried out 30 blood tests out of competition in 2012, USADA did 62, and Russia 128.
"

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/does-colombias-anti-doping-stand-up-to-scrutiny

Just 3 tests of this sort in 2012, laughable.

Hah, I just saw this thread for the first time! Mr. big cog, shouldn't the real question be: Can any rider in the Pro Tour be considered clean?

 

[RobbieCanuck]

Technically, I think many riders were based in Spain because there were no laws against doping up until Fuentes. No one wants to spend time behind bars like Millar.

Miller was not caught by Spanish law but rather French criminal law which makes it a crime to dope. France is the only European country with the jam to criminalize doping. If only the others would follow suit then there might be some real teeth in dealing with doping.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Just curious - any idea how many times Wiggins was tested by the UCI and are the results of these tests much publicized (or are they less believed)?

Results don't matter. The UCI doesn't have to open a case and we know they don't.

Going backwards in time, Contador's positive leak was rumored to be as much about the simple fact the UCI wasn't opening cases as the fact they got him on a very easy to defend positive for Clenbuterol. It's easy because there is no naturally occurring clenbuterol in the human body.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Miller was not caught by Spanish law but rather French criminal law which makes it a crime to dope. France is the only European country with the jam to criminalize doping. If only the others would follow suit then there might be some real teeth in dealing with doping.

If the will was there, couldn't dopers be prosecuted under fraud laws?
Or at the very least obtaining property by deception ?

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

If the will was there, couldn't dopers be prosecuted under fraud laws?
Or at the very least obtaining property by deception ?

By who? Their sponsors?

Not really a PR win.

 

[hiero2]

Doper ejected from Spanish Fondo

I've been in the mix in thinking that Spain might be found a little more tolerant of dopage.

Which makes THIS article, Doper ejected by Spanish Fondo even more interesting.

This seems to validate those who say their has been a change in direction.

 

[hrotha]

Which makes THIS article, Doper ejected by Spanish Fondo even more interesting.

This seems to validate those who say their has been a change in direction.

Not at all. See my post here - this incident is just another example of the Spanish cycling world dealing with doping in shady ways like it's no big deal.