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Can any riders based in Spain be considered clean ?

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May 26, 2009
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hrotha said:
Not at all. See my post here - this incident is just another example of the Spanish cycling world dealing with doping in shady ways like it's no big deal.

It's amusing. Even though indeed the Spanish police intervenes the drumming goes "It's Spain, It's Spain".

Hrotha. read again about UK testing. Tell me what happened with The Rabo Pro's. Tell me what happened with Leinders. Tell me how Belgium is dealing with doping. Then tell me again why it's Spain that somehow is the epitome of evil.

Had you said :" this incident is just another example of the cycling world dealing with doping in shady ways like it's no big deal." You would have a point. But singeling out Spain while they are doing so much more than the Northern clean countries is disgusting.

Oh and France? Someone please check what Dr. Menuet is doing. It's a damn shame everyone keeps forgetting his existence. France with it's fantastic Soccer between 1998 and 2006. France with Mr Virenque and Mr Jalabert.

What we saw in France were politicians making a strong gesture... and then it got buried as deep as possible.

Sorry, I have more respect for Italy then any other country on this matter. And Spain is definitely higher on that list than most other countries which are mentioned.

Fuentes was busted and went to court. Look at Human Plasma. Again; look at Leinders. Is it anywhere near enough? No. But the disdain for Spain is ludicrous. It would be great to see more hammering and slandering on the "clean countries" instead of this groupthink where Spain is somehow doing nothing.
 
What sniper said.

And I'm not singling out Spain, but this news article is about Spain, and some inexact claims were made regarding the incident. As it hasn't been reported as fully in the UK/US as in Spain, I figured I'd contribute to paint a fuller picture.

Anyway, you know I'm Spanish, right?
 
May 26, 2009
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I know Hrotha, I know. You rank very high on my favorite posters list.

It's just that I read this thread and I get disapointed in this forum. Where's the thread about Menuet? Where's the thread about Dutch cylcing doing absolutely zero?

And the Fuentes case was in my eyes a very good signal that it was serious. Heck, he made it to court which is more than any other country besides Italy could say.

I know everyone is mad about the bloodbags, but under law those had to go. We can scream our lungs out, but destroying them was the right thing to do. The transfusers were not on trial and will never as they didn't break the current laws. And sending the info to other countries is also pretty much covered by law.

It would never happen. That's not because Spain is evil, it's because that's how the laws were. It's a lot better than the farce in Austria :rolleyes:

I'm not saying all is well, far from it. But the unwillingness of (for example) the Dutch Cycling Union or the Dutch politicians to get the info from either Austria or Spain is a clear sign they care even less than Spain.
 
I might be a compete mug but I feel compelled to say that Mas strikes me as being at least as credible as many of his peers and I've not felt sceptical about a Movistar rider (who has never been sanctioned for a doping violation) for what feels like years. This includes Soler who I was happy to see offering a similar level of performance on another team.

It was a promising start to Ayuso's career as a GC contender today with a strong but not insane showing. Once the last of the Spanish old brigade retire I'd almost say there are no grounds for suspecting a Spanish rider over a rider from any other nation, not even perhaps a French rider. Same for Movistar versus non-Spanish teams. The exception is any Spaniard like Bilbao that ends up on Bahrain, but that applies to all nationalities.

Italy seems to be having a similar trajectory to Spain but without apparently much youth talent emerging.
 
I might be a compete mug but I feel compelled to say that Mas strikes me as being at least as credible as many of his peers and I've not felt sceptical about a Movistar rider (who has never been sanctioned for a doping violation) for what feels like years. This includes Soler who I was happy to see offering a similar level of performance on another team.

It was a promising start to Ayuso's career as a GC contender today with a strong but not insane showing. Once the last of the Spanish old brigade retire I'd almost say there are no grounds for suspecting a Spanish rider over a rider from any other nation, not even perhaps a French rider. Same for Movistar versus non-Spanish teams. The exception is any Spaniard like Bilbao that ends up on Bahrain, but that applies to all nationalities.

Italy seems to be having a similar trajectory to Spain but without apparently much youth talent emerging.
I don't know what the deal with Italy is.
Dominant in swimming, very good in athletics, historically bad in cycling. Doping (or the lack of) is probably part of the equation but not the only one.
 
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I don't know what the deal with Italy is.
Dominant in swimming, very good in athletics, historically bad in cycling. Doping (or the lack of) is probably part of the equation but not the only one.
Also the best european country in weightlifting, another radioactive sport.
I guess Italian cycling being so old school in the developmental system and youth ranks really hurts us a lot. The only good young guys seem those on the track who work with coaches from the NT to long term develop them and those who already have a coach from the nt in the junior ranks, such as Tiberi.