Cancellara motorized attacks?

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frenchfry said:
... as well as being reported on other variety shows (C à vous).

Perhaps some will see it as light relief. I know I do. :p

At the moment, it's a welcome break from people-doping. It's a bit of material for the Guignols de l'Info, or an 'And Finally' story.

Viewers may be saying "Uh, just look at what those cheating cyclists are up to now".

Or maybe it is an issue and I'm not taking it seriously enough. Even then, one would think that it shouldn't be too hard to control.
 
I don't trust cyclists as far as I could throw them.

The sport has gone down a slippery path for far too long in its quest for ever more futuristic inovations, in the name of so called progress, starting with race radios and then electronic gear switching, to say nothing of the chemical advancements.

It would, therefore, be incredibly naive of me to dismiss outright any possiblity that Cancellara utilized such a machine, simply because of the aparent outlandishness of such a behavior. The means with which cyclists have been overriding the doping controls, would, under "normal" circumstances, seem completely far-fetched too, just as it would seem totally unbelievable that the UCI could have accepted a bribe to cover-up a postive, though how can we take Landis' accusation as mere rubbish.

Mine isn't an affirmation one way or the other, however nothing in cycling, at this point, seems too far-fetched. What a pitiful state has this sport been reduced.

PS. Having just watched the bici dopata segment on the after-stage Giro coverage on u-tube, which actually I hadn't seen before, all I can say is what a mess. Cassani assured the spectators that the person, that remained anonymous, who had presented the "doped" bike to him (but someone obviously affiliated with the pro ranks of the sport) told him that the bike had already been used by some pros. I was also struck by the fact that such a machine has existed since 2004. Six years! I'm speachless...
 
Feb 14, 2010
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Cassani was the guy who came forward and said he had seen Rassmussen in Italy at a time he claimed to be in Mexico. It got him kicked out of the Tour by his own team. They seemed to think he had credibility, and the UCI is bringing him to the meeting.


Following rumours that professionals are secretively using motorised bicycles, the Union Cycliste Internationale (UCI) will meet on Monday at its headquarters in Aigle, Switzerland.

UCI President Pat McQuaid told La Gazzetta dello Sport that the UCI's experts and representatives from some bike manufacturers will discuss the plausibility that battery-powered bicycles are in use.

An article in Italian newspaper Il Giornale on May 18 brought the case to public attention. One week later, May 26, Rai television commentator and ex-professional Davide Cassani showed a motorised bicycle after Giro d'Italia stage 18. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaVcb0iTRFo)

"I tried it and I can say that if I raced with this bike I could win a stage of the Giro d'Italia, even if I am 50 years old," said Cassani. "It is impressive. I could go 50km/h without any fatigue."

Cassani helped bust Michael Rasmussen in a whereabouts case when he identified the Danish cyclist training in Italy prior to the 2007 Tour de France. McQuaid also thinks Cassani may be helpful in the UCI's investigation and he asked Cassani to join the meeting on Monday.

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news...ets-to-investigate-motorised-bike-rumour.html
 
The reason why this is bullsh1t is very simple. There is no way that a small electric motor like the one in the video that's floating around could have the torque needed to accelerate the 80-90 kg rider+bike. It's one thing to make the wheels turn when the bike is held up in the air but it's another thing to make it move when it's on the ground with an 80kg rider on top.
 
ingsve said:
The reason why this is bullsh1t is very simple. There is no way that a small electric motor like the one in the video that's floating around could have the torque needed to accelerate the 80-90 kg rider+bike. It's one thing to make the wheels turn when the bike is held up in the air but it's another thing to make it move when it's on the ground with an 80kg rider on top.

Nonesense. Commuters are using motorized bikes all the time. What torque? The rider provides his power, though the peddle stroke is being "assisted." I don't understand your rational. Are you saying such a doped bike doesn't exist?
 
rhubroma said:
Nonesense. Commuters are using motorized bikes all the time. What torque? The rider provides his power, though the peddle stroke is being "assisted." I don't understand your rational. Are you saying such a doped bike doesn't exist?

I'm saying that a bike with a motor like in the video could not provide the force to accelerate the bike in the way they claim Cancellara did.

Normal motorized bikes use a completely different type of motor. The motor in the video is a small electric rotary actuator and to get any help from that on an 80 kg bike the torque in the actuator would have to be enormous and I can't see that happening with a tiny 100 W electric motor.
 
rhubroma said:
Nonesense. Commuters are using motorized bikes all the time. What torque? The rider provides his power, though the peddle stroke is being "assisted." I don't understand your rational. Are you saying such a doped bike doesn't exist?

I've got lots of little questions and curiosities:

1. Apart from the "alleged instances", we've not seen any footage of anyone actually riding it in a reasonable comparison with fit, unassisted riders, or have I missed that?

2. The effects of such a test would perhaps be clearest on a sustained, steep climb like the Zoncolan.

3. Also, could you still ride out of the saddle with it?

4. Can you imagine there being a kind of an etiquette that one has to learn in order for it not to look too obvious?
 
Jul 2, 2009
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L'arriviste said:
I've got lots of little questions and curiosities:

1. Apart from the "alleged instances", we've not seen any footage of anyone actually riding it in a reasonable comparison with fit, unassisted riders, or have I missed that?


This isn't really what you're looking for, but quite good all the same.

British TV presenter with electric bike v Pro Cyclist (from The Gadget Show)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHU7qBZSsfk
 
Mar 26, 2009
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If we assume that Cancellara actually really used an eletric engine during last Flanders/Roubaix, wouldnt it make much more sense that he used the bike during the first 200k of racing?
 
Jun 2, 2010
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As a kid I set up an attempt to propel my bike with a high-end cordless drill setup with an 18 volt lithium-ion battery. It didn't cut it. The slow high torque setup of a bike crank is not conducive to electric power & though it did help for 30 minutes, the battery would then die & the gear reduction became a significant drag. Obviously with thousands if not millions of dollars on the line, a pretty advanced system could be made. But when the battery dies ,you'd still have to either stage a "flat" or mechanically disengage the gears.
 
Jun 2, 2010
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dzsnuts said:
As a kid I set up an attempt to propel my bike with a high-end cordless drill setup with an 18 volt lithium-ion battery. It didn't cut it. The slow high torque setup of a bike crank is not conducive to electric power & though it did help for 30 minutes, the battery would then die & the gear reduction became a significant drag. Obviously with thousands if not millions of dollars on the line, a pretty advanced system could be made. But when the battery dies ,you'd still have to either stage a "flat" or mechanically disengage the gears.

I guess a good freewheel setup could be utilized. The biggest factor is how much power can be packed in a battery that fits in a seatube?
 
Jul 7, 2009
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dzsnuts said:
As a kid I set up an attempt to propel my bike with a high-end cordless drill setup with an 18 volt lithium-ion battery. It didn't cut it. The slow high torque setup of a bike crank is not conducive to electric power & though it did help for 30 minutes, the battery would then die & the gear reduction became a significant drag. Obviously with thousands if not millions of dollars on the line, a pretty advanced system could be made. But when the battery dies ,you'd still have to either stage a "flat" or mechanically disengage the gears.

all it would take is a small solenoid to disengage the drive mechinism
this isn't rocket science........ unlike the doping regimes these guys do
 
Feb 14, 2010
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Insinuations of Cheating by “Mechanical Doping”.

[03.06 15:11] Team Saxo Bank rejects all insinuations and accusations that have been made in the media regarding Fabian Cancellara's alleged use of an electric motor in his bike. Team Saxo Bank is strongly opposed to any form of cheating and there is absolutely no truth to this story. There was not and never has been a motor in any Team Saxo Bank rider's bike.

In principle, Team Saxo Bank does not comment on rumors. However, with the irresponsible distribution of this story and related video, a myth has been developed that needs to be addressed. We will not participate in the furthering of this story and find the marketing platform now created for the engine manufacturer completely out of place and unwarranted. We are confident that the majority of those people who have come across this video see if for exactly what it is, A creative, amateur artist's attempt to express a purely hypothetical idea that has not basis of fact or truth. It is a work of fiction, disguised as documentary.

We regret if this has led anyone to view Team Saxo Bank in a negative way and we are deeply offended by the questioning of Fabian Cancellara's integrity, character and abilities. Fabian possesses incredible ability and talent and is a true professional. Fabian has provided Team Saxo Bank and cycling fans the world over with countless memorable victories and tremendous performances. Fabian's victories in Ronde van Vlaanderen and Paris-Roubaix embody everything that is beautiful about our sport, strength, endurance, suffering, passion, drama and teamwork. Fabian's victories are the result of dedication, hard work and sacrifice as well as his unique ability to rise to the occasion when striving to reach his goals. We are confident that the public can see through the nonsense this myth has presented and respect Fabian for what he is. A true Champion.

There will be no further Team comment on this situation as we feel the insinuations do not warrant further time or energy.

http://www.team-saxobank.com/ny_news.asp?n_id=2812
 
Feb 4, 2010
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Anything is possible I suppose, but it's hard to imagine doing something that audacious with such a high potential of getting caught. With PEDs, there are so many ways to avoid detection, but with something like this, all an official has to do is say "let me look at your bike" and you lose all. While I don't know what the official penalties would be when compared to a doping suspension, but if a team is running a bike with a motorized assist, I'd imagine they can kiss all sponsorship goodbye. Way too easy to get caught, way too much too lose.

Plus, I'm not convinced that the engineering adds up. I've worked with too many battery powered power tools to expect too much performance under heavy load for very long. Yes, I'm sure there is better battery and motor technology out there than my DeWalt, but you'd have to involve a lot of players to develop it and you'd leave too big of a trail to access it. Really hard for me to imagine, but as I said, you never know.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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ingsve said:
I'm saying that a bike with a motor like in the video could not provide the force to accelerate the bike in the way they claim Cancellara did.

Normal motorized bikes use a completely different type of motor. The motor in the video is a small electric rotary actuator and to get any help from that on an 80 kg bike the torque in the actuator would have to be enormous and I can't see that happening with a tiny 100 W electric motor.

YES! Add to the variable pavement and variable torque for attacking on a cobbled climb and the actuator would likely detonate! As for Cassani having credibility-his presentation is as a journalist; one of the few groups that has a greater credibility deficit than cyclists. All these smart guys with SRMs on their bikes should also know the difference between the first 100 watts of and the effort required to produce the last 100 watts of a 900 to 1,000 watt effort. The first 100 barely applies any torque; the last 100 (if you're capable of doing it) is part of an effort that will break your bottom bracket.
 
Jun 3, 2010
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Amazing

Moose McKnuckles said:
I have serious doubts about Cancellara's performance at Flanders and Roubaix. I have seen a lot of races, but I can't remember a rider doing something like that in the classics. The guy absolutely dropped Boonen like a stone.

The Cassani video raises a lot of questions. I hate to be a conspiracy theorist, but those two Cancellara performances just don't smell right.

Incredible how people immediatly believes in everything they hear! Does anybody has doubts that Cancellara on his best is the fastest guy on a bycicle?? Does he need ... a motor when he himself is a hell of a machine? Please... Cycling has too much problems to deal with and does not need any "x-files" stories!
 
Jul 7, 2009
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Thank you! If anyone had invented a battery so powerful and small that it is capable of make a difference in a 160 mile long bike race while overcoming it's own weight and size limitations, not to mention a whirring electric motor strong enough to withstand the shock while pounding over cobbles, they would be selling this technology to electric car companies, not wasting it on a bicycle race.
This whole story is beyond silly.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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Merckx11 said:
Thank you! If anyone had invented a battery so powerful and small that it is capable of make a difference in a 160 mile long bike race while overcoming it's own weight and size limitations, not to mention a whirring electric motor strong enough to withstand the shock while pounding over cobbles, they would be selling this technology to electric car companies, not wasting it on a bicycle race.
This whole story is beyond silly.

But wait...maybe the Big Oil companies want to repress that application for cars and hate cyclists! They can accomplish the discreditation of every Green's transportation heroes and keep cars burning gas. It could happen!
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Incredible ....

What is going to be next? A jet-propelled water bottle or a small fan in the back of the helmet ?
 
Feb 14, 2010
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Merckx11 said:
Thank you! If anyone had invented a battery so powerful and small that it is capable of make a difference in a 160 mile long bike race while overcoming it's own weight and size limitations, not to mention a whirring electric motor strong enough to withstand the shock while pounding over cobbles, they would be selling this technology to electric car companies, not wasting it on a bicycle race.
This whole story is beyond silly.

Military technology in use is way ahead of what most of us think is possible. An experimental spin-off of some robot technology which had a few mega$ Research & Development budget: possible. Likely? who knows?