• The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to @SHaines here on the forum, or use the Contact Us form to message the Community Team.

    In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.

    Thanks!

Cancellara motorized attacks?

Page 4 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Feb 14, 2010
245
0
0
Visit site
Cozy Beehive said:
Check my last post in the clinic's thread. Story has been debunked..

The photo really only says that a standard off-the-shelf Gruber Assist is absent. Doesn't exactly debunk the story.

Initially a doubter, the more ways that people try to prove conclusively that it isn't or can't be, the less sceptical I am becoming.:eek::rolleyes::D
 
May 5, 2009
696
1
0
Visit site
Well, the chief conspiracy nut would say that the Pharmstrong/Hog hired Buffalini to do that cheap video in order to distract from Landis/Lemond disclosing the sad truth about LA :D
 
Apr 12, 2009
2,364
0
0
Visit site
The technics exists. There's no doubt about that. It's on the market, you can buy it yourself if you want.
Don't imagine it like a motorcycle. Imagine it like a strong tailwind. That might not seem much, but that can make a very big difference!
 
May 8, 2009
133
0
0
Visit site
Oldman said:
You guys are all simply nuts and not very f*cking bright about it either. Any motor capable of assisting an already 700 to 1000 watt effort could not be concealed on a bike. Folks that have viewed the alleged "doped bike" noted it operated in the 100 watt range. You cannot simply add those "watts" onto a sudden human effort.

Amen! I keep checking to see if it is close to April 1st. I can't believe there are so many people taking this seriously.

Now, if you suggest this was some elaborate scheme by Lance to take the focus off of the Landis allegations, I would definitely believe that. :)
 
Sep 25, 2009
1,942
0
0
Visit site
JayZee said:
Amen! I keep checking to see if it is close to April 1st. I can't believe there are so many people taking this seriously.

Now, if you suggest this was some elaborate scheme by Lance to take the focus off of the Landis allegations, I would definitely believe that. :)

maybe he made that youtube video extension :p
 
Jun 16, 2009
459
0
0
Visit site
180mmCrank said:
There is IMHO absolutely no chance that Cancellara would put a motor in his frame. I can't believe any of us really think he would do that... he looked so much better than everyone else because he is so much better than everyone else.

Funny thing is, that he is not better than Boonen.
 
Jun 19, 2009
5,220
0
0
Visit site
Buffalo Soldier said:
The technics exists. There's no doubt about that. It's on the market, you can buy it yourself if you want.
Don't imagine it like a motorcycle. Imagine it like a strong tailwind. That might not seem much, but that can make a very big difference!

I can imagine wind...I can imagine nearly anything. Actually it is Big Oil working in concert with a military cabal to further unbalance the cycling world away from the French and to the Swiss. That's where they keep all their money...
 
Jun 19, 2009
5,220
0
0
Visit site
Oldman said:
I can imagine wind...I can imagine nearly anything. Actually it is Big Oil working in concert with a military cabal to further unbalance the cycling world away from the French and to the Swiss. That's where they keep all their money...

...but I can't imagine how much more gullible and weird the threads are going to get by July.
 
Feb 18, 2010
882
0
0
Visit site
Can't be bothered to check if this has been posted yet, but Canc isn't the only one cheating:

28944_401004468607_52413013607_4046482_7022295_n.jpg
 
Jun 4, 2010
1
0
0
Visit site
Flatulence power verboten

... just announced: UCI to ban "pressurized doping". Riders will be monitored for the amount of gas they produce. It has been estimated that some riders can produce as much as 50 watts of "back pressure" power. If over a to-be-determined limit, a rider will receive a two year suspension. WADA has developed a new test called the Flatulence Abundance Recognition Test, or FART.

Late this afternoon, Lance Armstrong twitted that The Radioshack team has removed Tex-Mex food from all it's menus. Floyd Landis, in an interview on Larry King Live, stated that he had gas in the past and that this was a problem with all his former teammates. Greg LeMond offered support to Landis for "clearing the air". In a related statement to the press, Alberto Contador denied that he ordered extra helpings of cassoulet during his recent "scouting" visit to the Pyrenees. Spanish authorities declined to investigate, but CONI is investigating recent Giro d'Italia results for violations of Italian law.
 
Apr 11, 2009
2,250
0
0
Visit site
Saxo Bank down to five in Luxembourg

Apparently Rasmussen was caught off course trying to find a local gas station for Saxo's new hybrid engine model...for improved rouleuring and low greenhouse gases.................. :eek:

"Rasmussen, winner of two stages of the 4 Days of Dunkirk in addition to his track world championship title "was disqualified today after having lost his way getting back to the peloton after a puncture" according to Saxo Bank director Kim Andersen."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/saxo-bank-down-to-five-in-luxembourg
 
Jun 3, 2010
84
0
0
Visit site
First post, and maybe the last, but this is such a cool subject that I must comment on:).

Oldman said:
YES! Add to the variable pavement and variable torque for attacking on a cobbled climb and the actuator would likely detonate! As for Cassani having credibility-his presentation is as a journalist; one of the few groups that has a greater credibility deficit than cyclists. All these smart guys with SRMs on their bikes should also know the difference between the first 100 watts of and the effort required to produce the last 100 watts of a 900 to 1,000 watt effort. The first 100 barely applies any torque; the last 100 (if you're capable of doing it) is part of an effort that will break your bottom bracket.

This is a major misunderstanding on how power works. Buffalo Soldier actually had a nice comparison to a tailwind, that you hopefully are able to understand:

Buffalo Soldier said:
The technics exists. There's no doubt about that. It's on the market, you can buy it yourself if you want.
Don't imagine it like a motorcycle. Imagine it like a strong tailwind. That might not seem much, but that can make a very big difference!


Merckx11 said:
Thank you! If anyone had invented a battery so powerful and small that it is capable of make a difference in a 160 mile long bike race while overcoming it's own weight and size limitations, not to mention a whirring electric motor strong enough to withstand the shock while pounding over cobbles, they would be selling this technology to electric car companies, not wasting it on a bicycle race.
This whole story is beyond silly.

This is also just plain wrong. The batteries today are absolutely not a limiting factor to make a difference in a bike race, no matter how long. I even think you could win a bike race with a capacitator(in a sprint ofc). As has already been said, todays bikes are too light, so the weight probably won't matter at all, but even so, I would gladly race Flandern with 1-2kilo extra if it could give me 100W for 15min.

Cozy Beehive said:
Check my last post in the clinic's thread. Story has been debunked..

Cool analysis and all, but I don't think it proves anything either way in this case. And it doesn't matter what the specs for the Gruber assist is. Given some resources, I actually think that I could make an invisible el-motor for a bike myself(not a fancy one like the Gruber ofc:( ). So like Buffalo Soldier said, the technology definitely exists.

After watching Cancellaras attacks, I actually believe in this crazy thing. My (very non-scientific and wildly speculative) reasons is basically that his pedaling style(the way he pushes on the pedals) is different and not natural after he "turns on" the "motor". Also in roubaix he follows the move out of the saddle(showing that it is natural also for him to stand when accelerating) and then boo-boom while sitting down. It all just looks incredibly fake. Hard to have "real" evidence ofc, so same fanboy problem here like it is with HWMNBN.:D

And also 19 seconds up the Muur while previous best times was 23-24s. lol
 
Jul 2, 2009
2,392
0
0
Visit site
Buffalo Soldier said:
The technics exists. There's no doubt about that.

I'd say that there's a huge amount of doubt about that. I work in patents and when this came up a few weeks ago I did a search and there was nothing more credible than the Gruber patent. No patents, no invention is a basic rule.

Before you say that no-one patent a cheating method then you really have no experience of innovative engineers.

Given a huge amount of money several somebodies could make this bike, but they haven't.

You can keep following your conspiracy, but you join the moon landing hoax tyes and creationists in credibility
 
I don't have on opinion on whether or not "motorized doping" is happening because I don't have enough knowledge of the technology involved; and unlike most humans I like to avoid sharing an opinion when I'm unqualified to do so in order to not contaminate the world with BS.

But one thing I do know is the fact that so many people are taking this seriously just shows how little credibility the sport of pro cycling has. :(
 
BikeCentric said:
But one thing I do know is the fact that so many people are taking this seriously just shows how little credibility the sport of pro cycling has. :(

Well said. Its tempting not to be the occasional amateur investigator because you or I smell a rat under the carpet. The sport as beautiful as it is also stinks now and that's the truth.
 
Jul 20, 2009
35
0
0
Visit site
And also 19 seconds up the Muur while previous best times was 23-24s.

I don't think we know the previous best time up the Muur. A couple of other times have been posted, but the list is far from exhaustive, I think three other data points.
 
Aug 6, 2009
1,901
1
0
Visit site
Ingenerius said:
After watching Cancellaras attacks, I actually believe in this crazy thing. My (very non-scientific and wildly speculative) reasons is basically that his pedaling style(the way he pushes on the pedals) is different and not natural after he "turns on" the "motor". Also in roubaix he follows the move out of the saddle(showing that it is natural also for him to stand when accelerating) and then boo-boom while sitting down. It all just looks incredibly fake. Hard to have "real" evidence ofc, so same fanboy problem here like it is with HWMNBN.:D

And also 19 seconds up the Muur while previous best times was 23-24s. lol
It was 19 seconds up the last part of the Muur, and I believe the comparison was only for the last few years, not fastest time ever necessarily. In any case that was the exact point where Cancellara made his attack so obviously he was riding really fast. Compare that to Devolder who attacked earlier on the Muur in 2008 and before the Muur in 2007. If Devolder was riding at the same speed when he isn't launching an attack as Cancellara does when he is we should look at Devolders bike for an engine. Any comparison to how fast this section was climbed before is meaningless unless a decisive attack was made at that exact spot as well, and even then the comparison is dodgy.

ETA: I see Frank Tuesday ninjaed me while I was looking at youtube videos of Devolders wins.
 
ingsve said:
I'm saying that a bike with a motor like in the video could not provide the force to accelerate the bike in the way they claim Cancellara did.

Normal motorized bikes use a completely different type of motor. The motor in the video is a small electric rotary actuator and to get any help from that on an 80 kg bike the torque in the actuator would have to be enormous and I can't see that happening with a tiny 100 W electric motor.

You are obviously more qualified than me on a technical basis, though mine wasn't about that in any case. I'm simply wondering where the sport is going, and, apart from my own admited ignorance, can only assume that the Cassani bike isn't a hoax. Though I sincerely hope I'm wrong. For this truly would be the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.
 
L'arriviste said:
I've got lots of little questions and curiosities:

1. Apart from the "alleged instances", we've not seen any footage of anyone actually riding it in a reasonable comparison with fit, unassisted riders, or have I missed that?

2. The effects of such a test would perhaps be clearest on a sustained, steep climb like the Zoncolan.

3. Also, could you still ride out of the saddle with it?

4. Can you imagine there being a kind of an etiquette that one has to learn in order for it not to look too obvious?

All great questions. I'm sorry to say, however, that I have no idea on any of them.
 
rhubroma said:
You are obviously more qualified than me on a technical basis, though mine wasn't about that in any case. I'm simply wondering where the sport is going, and, apart from my own admited ignorance, can only assume that the Cassani bike isn't a hoax. Though I sincerely hope I'm wrong. For this truly would be the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.

I agree and I also just saw the Cassani video tonight; prior to this I wasn't even following the story because the headline sounded too ridiculous for me to even read the story.

But I can't see why Cassani would put his credibility on the line and risk his job for a hoax, ergo I have to think the bike he presented is real and he did state that a pro had told him it had been used in a pro race. The bottom line is that the whole situation once again calls the credibility of the sport into question in a new way. The sport is in a very bad place and it's going to be a long road to a recovery, a road upon which we're still traveling in the wrong direction! :eek: