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Cancellara motorized attacks?

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BikeCentric said:
I agree and I also just saw the Cassani video tonight; prior to this I wasn't even following the story because the headline sounded too ridiculous for me to even read the story.

But I can't see why Cassani would put his credibility on the line and risk his job for a hoax
, ergo I have to think the bike he presented is real and he did state that a pro had told him it had been used in a pro race. The bottom line is that the whole situation once again calls the credibility of the sport into question in a new way. The sport is in a very bad place and it's going to be a long road to a recovery, a road upon which we're still traveling in the wrong direction! :eek:

Exactly! This was my rational too and for all the rest you mentioned as well.
 
Aug 6, 2009
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BikeCentric said:
I agree and I also just saw the Cassani video tonight; prior to this I wasn't even following the story because the headline sounded too ridiculous for me to even read the story.

But I can't see why Cassani would put his credibility on the line and risk his job for a hoax, ergo I have to think the bike he presented is real and he did state that a pro had told him it had been used in a pro race. The bottom line is that the whole situation once again calls the credibility of the sport into question in a new way. The sport is in a very bad place and it's going to be a long road to a recovery, a road upon which we're still traveling in the wrong direction! :eek:
If it's real it should be very easy to prove so, unless he made some agreement with his source not to let it be examined. If he says he has I think that would be a good reason to get suspicious.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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rhubroma said:
You are obviously more qualified than me on a technical basis, though mine wasn't about that in any case. I'm simply wondering where the sport is going, and, apart from my own admited ignorance, can only assume that the Cassani bike isn't a hoax. Though I sincerely hope I'm wrong. For this truly would be the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.

Cassani may be "qualified" as a cyclist and a journalist. He's definitely not an engineer. Cyclists are motivated and, having 3 decades of racing experience; extremely subject to traditional influences, superstition, false encouragement, sychophants and a general motivation to prevail. They are capable of just about any justification if they've lost enough. That some geek found a way to stick a semi-useless application into a desparate "pro" bike only means that a chain of fools was joined. Cassani will be another link. You guys....
 
Jun 5, 2009
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Oldman said:
All these smart guys with SRMs on their bikes should also know the difference between the first 100 watts of and the effort required to produce the last 100 watts of a 900 to 1,000 watt effort. The first 100 barely applies any torque; the last 100 (if you're capable of doing it) is part of an effort that will break your bottom bracket.


Care to elucidate? A watt is a watt and a Newton meter is a Newton meter, whether first, last or somewhere in between. The physical effort a cyclist requires to put out 900 watts at a certain cadance will not be affected by motor assistance.
 
Apr 8, 2009
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tgsgirl said:
Can't be bothered to check if this has been posted yet, but Canc isn't the only one cheating:

28944_401004468607_52413013607_4046482_7022295_n.jpg
So that makes two critters asleep when Cancellara attacked in P-R
 
Michele said:
Care to explain? Thanks.


Sure I live in Italy so I watch the cycling coverage here and, consequently, have been listening to Cassani for years.

Some of his remarks and way of handling certain situations, as when he bullied another commentator once for challenging one of his points, has smacked of Black Shirt (meaning fascist) behavior. Cassani's prepotency at times, is typical of the fascist mentality.

On the other hand he's a fanatic of the sport, thus it seems unlikely that he is making this up nor do I believe he'd be foolish enough to do so.

PS. Today we read in Gazzetta dello Sport that Musseuw claims the doped bike exists too, that he had actually seen a model several years ago at a California bike show. He also said that he didn't believe Cancellara used it to win Flanders and Roubaix this year, however he also admitted that some of his peddle strokes and the unusual bike changes have left him with some suspisions.
 
Feb 14, 2010
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Now can we please accept the facts?

"We just need to be aware of what is technically possible these days," said Boardman, who oversees the development of Team GB bikes.

"I sat at a meeting with the UCI last year and drew on the blackboard exactly how this might work. I showed them how some the sophisticated boosting technology now available, mainly from F1 teams, that can get a kilowatt out of a single AAA battery.

"And don't forget electrically operated gears are legal these days so there is already a power source on many bikes. I think it would be fair to say there was a stunned silence after I said my piece.

"It would be very little trouble adapting a power source to give you maybe a couple of hundred watts for 20 minutes or so, which would basically gives you 40 per cent more power through the pedals in a time trial say.

"You could reduce that power and spread it over a longer period of time or go for one "hit".

"Its potential is obvious. You could use it when you are trying to establish a break or on the crux of the last climb of the day or maybe in the latter stages of a long time-trial.

"There is not a shred of doubt that the technology exists to cheat in this way and that a rider could get a definite return from such cheating. With little buttons controlling the gears these days I suspect it would also be pretty simple to disguise.

"As for detection, the extra weight would be almost negligible as most road racing bikes come in well underweight anyway when scrutinised so you would struggle to identify a cheat that way.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...ut-possibility-of-bike-doping-a-year-ago.html
 
Jun 16, 2009
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amp300 said:
I was going to question this, then I looked at your location and determined it was a lost cause.

Don't let my location cloud your judgement.

But it's just my opinion anyway. If I was German or Italian, I would still take Boonen over Cancelara.
:)
 
The Saxo Bank team issued a statement denying any 'doped' bicycle use by FC.

Perhaps the Statement could have include the reason for the numerous bike changes in question. Maybe they did not want to 'dis' the bike/wheel/tire partners for failure, but the bike changes are still curious.
 
I am not liking this.

We know for sure that the technology exists for building such a bike. The thing is that Specialized would have to be involved like theswordsman says. So we believe.

Now we have other ex-riders and experts pitching in that they already knew that.

I am starting to hear more noise from the river and is not good.

I don't think Cancellara used it but we have been proven wrong in the past in other related issues.:eek:
 
Jul 14, 2009
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It's amazing and a bit insulting that NASCAR would be ahead of other sports for catching technical cheaters. They have found people w lager restriction plates and drivers and their team get fines and suspension. How hard is it to do an inspection of the top 5 riders bikes for weight,unauthorized parts and foremost a phuking motor. If a guy can find a power switch on a bikes handle bars at 30 mph while slamming over cobbles a good bike mech should be able to find it on the questionable bike while it's in a work stand. The UCI is allowing the sport to look like shiit from every angle. McQuaid to start money from a South African racist race promoter at the start of his career having him in charge of the sports police force is the most stupid thing anybody could imagine. Thank God the world cup is being held in SA so another sport can take some heat for lack of foresight.
 
May 13, 2009
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Well with NASCAR, they have a captive audience. It is not like you win the race and then drive the car out of the race track to your drive way or safe house and switch them. We have seen cyclists (read Triki Beltran) literally try and race away/get to the bus/wherever to avoid being caught. Although I think this brings up a good idea about having finisher's brought into a corral at the end. Or the UCI could have 'bike dopers'. People who wake the mechanics up at 6 in the am to inspect a bottom bracket and seat tube.
I agree with you though that it shouldn't really be that hard to get the top five places, and maybe another five randomly chosen to submit their bikes at the end of the stage. They could send a team mechanic to watch too.
Despite what I typed above, I still don't think the 'doped bike' exists. Not yet at least. I still want mythbuster's to try this. I'm going to check their forums.

fatandfast said:
It's amazing and a bit insulting that NASCAR would be ahead of other sports for catching technical cheaters. They have found people w lager restriction plates and drivers and their team get fines and suspension. How hard is it to do an inspection of the top 5 riders bikes for weight,unauthorized parts and foremost a phuking motor. If a guy can find a power switch on a bikes handle bars at 30 mph while slamming over cobbles a good bike mech should be able to find it on the questionable bike while it's in a work stand. The UCI is allowing the sport to look like shiit from every angle. McQuaid to start money from a South African racist race promoter at the start of his career having him in charge of the sports police force is the most stupid thing anybody could imagine. Thank God the world cup is being held in SA so another sport can take some heat for lack of foresight.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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tgsgirl said:
Can't be bothered to check if this has been posted yet, but Canc isn't the only one cheating:

28944_401004468607_52413013607_4046482_7022295_n.jpg

So what happens if the mechanic, by accident, put the wheel in backwards? Will Boonen go even slower ?
 
Oct 29, 2009
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Just like the question of doping, this is another issue in which a lot of people know the truth. There is a conspiuous lack of will in the pro peloton and related personnel to speak out on things.

Protecting their livelihoods, perhaps, but one thing we can be sure about is that pro cycling doesn't just attract great athletes, it also has more than its fair share of world-class fools, knaves and cowards.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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DL9999 said:
Care to elucidate? A watt is a watt and a Newton meter is a Newton meter, whether first, last or somewhere in between. The physical effort a cyclist requires to put out 900 watts at a certain cadance will not be affected by motor assistance.

A watt is a watt. If a mechanism exists to deliver 100 watts, be light and relatively undetectable it has limitations on the torque it will deliver. My point is the first 100 watts of effort is relatively low torque. When you are at 700 watts of output, in an environment with wind/cobbles, etc; how would such a light system assist at that output level? It couldn't simply add 100 watts to the effort as it would have to apply the output to the rider's variable torque and rpms.
Boardman weighed in with the theory that Formula KERS systems could provide renewable power, etc. You still have to transmit the power and that's where, while possible; it's not going to be that stealthy. Add to that this quote from Boardman:
"My experience within the sport tells me that to cheat blatantly in such a way would be such a massive step for those concerned - and it would involve so many members of the backup team and staff - that although it is possible it probably hasn't taken place yet for real. Just because you 'can' doesn't mean to say you 'do'."

If the UCI is really concerned you have the bikes file through an Ultrasound checkpoint at the start and submit any rooftop backup bikes to the same scrutiny.

Do I believe someone would attempt to cheat? Sure.
 
Jul 30, 2009
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The fact that Boardman presented to the UCI on this last year is really telling. He must be convinced and the UCI must be taking him seriously (as you would).

Whatever your thoughts on the merits of the Cassani vid CB is the King of bike tech and I cannot believe he would open himself to potential ridicule if he did not believe 100% it were possible.

That said, Like Boardman I find it so difficult to believe Spartacus would cheat like this that I am still going believe he won with the same prep as everyone else.

Plus the damage to a huge bike company if they had gone along with this is simply not worth the risk when they are already sponsoring the strongest and most skillful rider.

But, 1kW from a standard battery - yikes. Someone somewhere will be thinking about it...
 
May 29, 2010
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fatandfast said:
It's amazing and a bit insulting that NASCAR would be ahead of other sports for catching technical cheaters.
This is what I don't understand either. In car racing they do teardowns all the time. How hard would it be to pull out the seat tube and look inside or feed a snake down......whatever.....X-rays?
 
Feb 14, 2010
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fatandfast said:
It's amazing and a bit insulting that NASCAR would be ahead of other sports for catching technical cheaters. They have found people w lager restriction plates and drivers and their team get fines and suspension. How hard is it to do an inspection of the top 5 riders bikes for weight,unauthorized parts and foremost a phuking motor. If a guy can find a power switch on a bikes handle bars at 30 mph while slamming over cobbles a good bike mech should be able to find it on the questionable bike while it's in a work stand. The UCI is allowing the sport to look like shiit from every angle. McQuaid to start money from a South African racist race promoter at the start of his career having him in charge of the sports police force is the most stupid thing anybody could imagine. Thank God the world cup is being held in SA so another sport can take some heat for lack of foresight.

Well, actually the switch could be wireless and hidden in the rider's glove or jersey or ... So back to looking for the motor itself.
 
Jun 5, 2010
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FC bike change

Why do you think FC did that really timely bike change in P R just before his big attack? They might check the bike before the race, but no way are they checking it durring or after the race, nope the team mechanic just takes it away... and another strange thing, FC's bike was not the usual Specialized, it was a "project bike"...hmmm...
 
May 11, 2009
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Winterfold said:
................
But, 1kW from a standard battery - yikes. Someone somewhere will be thinking about it...

From Chris Boardman quoted in CyclingNews.Com:
"Any rider, squad and sponsors involved with a team caught in this way would be dead in the water as far as cycling is concerned. There would be absolutely zero sympathy and no way back into the sport whatsoever. Only desperate people would take that step and there have historically been the odd instance in sport. I suppose the most famous was Boris Onischenko rigging up his sword to score hits at will at the modern pentathlon in 1976. You never say never, so it's right we are on our guard."

There are lots of low cost ways to check - including magnetometers and ultrasonics, especially in carbon fiber bikes. There should also be resistance and/or noise when turning the cranks backwards due to the gears and bearings (use a stethoscope to detect noise).

"I showed them some of the sophisticated boosting technology now available, mainly from F1 teams, that can get a kilowatt out of a single AAA battery."

You might get a kilowatt for a few seconds using a capacitor out of a AAA battery but a more typical output is two watts.
 

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