Cancellara

[personal]

I don't remember that descent being very technical, though. I seem to remember it being very wide, with only a slight downgrade. There must be a Youtube video of it. I do remember him just powering away from that group and catching the leaders very quickly.

That's how I remember it too.

 

[airstream]

I am not disputing that - I simply put up all his results. If you leave out results the fanboys accuse you of being selective with your evidence.

2008 is interesting especially when you compare to his 2007 results which were:

2007
1st World Time Trial Championships
1st National Time Trial Championships
Tour de France

1st Prologue & Stage 3

Tour de Suisse

1st Prologue & Stage 9 (ITT)

2nd E3 Harelbeke

Why only 2007 and 2008? Since 2009 Cancellara was enrolled in the list of rageful anti-doping fighters?

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Sorry I don't get your point.

 

[airstream]

Sorry I don't get your point.

Why did you lay out only the result of 2007 and 2008? Is there much evidence to consider that Cancellara stop doping after that?

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

2008 is where CERA seems to hit the peloton. So it makes sense to compare his results before and 2008. After 2008 and the developed CERA test it would seem logical (assuming the Red Queen effect) that he would move onto the next doping practice.

Or do you not consider his 2008 road results to not be out of the ordinary compared to what he had achieved previously on the road?

Plus I don't want to bore people with all his race results. It was an illustrative point about his 2008 season which is the one we are currently discussing as being the most eyebrow raising.

 

[airstream]

2008 is where CERA seems to hit the peloton. So it makes sense to compare his results before and 2008. After 2008 and the developed CERA test it would seem logical (assuming the Red Queen effect) that he would move onto the next doping practice.

Or do you not consider his 2008 road results to not be out of the ordinary compared to what he had achieved previously on the road?

I don't know. In my view, some teams (and CSC was obviously one of them) always had informational back-up from UCI. So they possibly didn't need to stop using CERA after 2008, because they were tested less and had some additional UCI resourse to cover up their positives. It is a difficult question. WADA started detecting EPO in 2000, however best riders instantly found an alternative variant — to inject this intravenously. So they could simply do it with CERA as well.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

That's how I remember it too.

It wasn't, just watched it back. Even Botero, Aerts, Gesink et all came close to rejoin. It was astonishing to see back than but it is not like baby Schleck, Rebellin an Sammy are the big tempo men.

If Cancellara was Luigi, where did he go to after Fuentes got popped?

 

[Lanark]

2008 is where CERA seems to hit the peloton. So it makes sense to compare his results before and 2008. After 2008 and the developed CERA test it would seem logical (assuming the Red Queen effect) that he would move onto the next doping practice.

Or do you not consider his 2008 road results to not be out of the ordinary compared to what he had achieved previously on the road?

Plus I don't want to bore people with all his race results. It was an illustrative point about his 2008 season which is the one we are currently discussing as being the most eyebrow raising.

2008 is when CERA could first be detected, but there were phone converstions from Di Luca and others from years earlier were CERA-use was already hinted.

2008 didn't really stand out. It was his best year, but he turned 27 that year, hardly surprising. It wasn't really an unexpected step up from 2006 for example.

 

[airstream]

Rass was allegedly popped on DynEPO in the Tour. DynEPO is a CERA just from other chinese manufacturer.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

It wasn't, just watched it back. Even Botero, Aerts, Gesink et all came close to rejoin. It was astonishing to see back than but it is not like baby Schleck, Rebellin an Sammy are the big tempo men.

If Cancellara was Luigi, where did he go to after Fuentes got popped?

Back to Italy maybe? Where did the other CSC riders go to?

Ferrari seems to have been available then as his exclusive deal with Armstrong was over.

Pepe Marti/Del Moral and others were floating around.

 

[airstream]

Back to Italy maybe? Where did the other CSC riders go to?

Ferrari seems to have been available then as his exclusive deal with Armstrong was over.

Pepe Marti/Del Moral and others were floating around.

It looks like Riis quickly found another doctor who later on worked with Sastre, the Schlecks and Contador, but it's obviously not Ferrari and the team Marti-Celaya-Del Moral.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Back to Italy maybe? Where did the other CSC riders go to?

Ferrari seems to have been available then as his exclusive deal with Armstrong was over.

Pepe Marti/Del Moral and others were floating around.

We kinda know Thomas Dekker went to Human Plasma, also a Cecchini trainee. Rasmussen too, former Bjarne man of course, but too little for Cecchini to train with to my believes.

I do not think your CERA way is correct. Maybe it is and the sport of cycling is even a bigger farce then we know.

 

[thehog]

2008 was quite the season for Luigi

1st Olympic Time Trial Champion
1st National Time Trial Championships
1st Overall Tirreno–Adriatico

1st Stage 5

1st Milan – San Remo
1st Monte Paschi Eroica
Tour de Suisse

1st Stages 7 & 9
1st Points classification

1st Prologue Tour of California
1st Prologue Tour of Luxembourg
1st Stage 20 (ITT) Tour de France
2nd Olympic Road Race
2nd Paris-Roubaix

That is a good year. Haven't seen a year that successful since... by any rider.

 

[Ferminal]

Except Contador in the same year

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

I digress

That is a good year. Haven't seen a year that successful since... by any rider.

I dunno, it comes close to this -

1st Overall Tour de France

1st Stages 9 ITT & 19 ITT

1st Overall Paris–Nice

1st Points classification
1st Stage 8 ITT

1st Overall Tour de Romandie

1st Stages 1 & 5 ITT

1st Overall Critérium du Dauphiné

1st Stage 4 ITT

3rd Overall Volta ao Algarve

1st Stage 5 ITT

1st Olympic Road TT

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

You guys are just haters.

Guess the power taps were within humanly possible.

 

[sniper]

I'd be curious to get reactions from guys like Kittel or the Garmin clan, if Luigi wins anything big this year.
Will be interesting to see how consistent Vaughters is in calling out former Fuentes clients.

 

[hrotha]

Will be interesting to see how consistent Vaughters is in calling out former Fuentes clients.

Seriously? You're bringing up something that happened 5 years ago and which JV has already explained as "I was still rationalizing my own doping to an extent at that point and I was basically an ***"?

 

[sniper]

Seriously? You're bringing up something that happened 5 years ago and which JV has already explained as "I was still rationalizing my own doping to an extent at that point and I was basically an ***"?

Lance also admitted to being a bully. should we forget about it now?

I don't think it's a coincidence that vaughters' increased posting-rate in the past coupla days coincided with the hamilton and trent stories. i could be wrong, but his presence here seems to correlate with all sorts of backtracking. he'll be pleased to see you buy it.

anyway, I'm not expecting any, but it would be nice to see some clean guys raise their voice this season, especially if ex-Fuentes customers win big races. Why did some fuentes customers pay the bill while others didn't. why is riis still there, etc.

 

[thehog]

I dunno, it comes close to this -

1st Overall Tour de France

1st Stages 9 ITT & 19 ITT

1st Overall Paris–Nice

1st Points classification
1st Stage 8 ITT

1st Overall Tour de Romandie

1st Stages 1 & 5 ITT

1st Overall Critérium du Dauphiné

1st Stage 4 ITT

3rd Overall Volta ao Algarve

1st Stage 5 ITT

1st Olympic Road TT

That is a good year. Although Lugi is a TT specialist. No one can come close to his doped up TT efforts.

Clean riders wouldn't stand a chance in beating him in the TT. Untouchable. Especially those skinny ones who have to climb also.

 

[del1962]

That is a good year. Although Lugi is a TT specialist. No one can come close to his doped up TT efforts.

Clean riders wouldn't stand a chance in beating him in the TT. Untouchable. Especially those skinny ones who have to climb also.

If Luigi is just a time trial specialcist that would ignore his classics performances

 

[GJB123]

That is a good year. Haven't seen a year that successful since... by any rider.

Gilbert in 2011?

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Gilbert in 2011?

Jose Gilbert had a tue for a year, not nice of you to bring that up.

 

[thehog]

If Luigi is just a time trial specialcist that would ignore his classics performances

Thanks. No one should able to beat him. Especially skinny (clean) climbers.

 

[Alpechraxler]

So you provide us with two links neither of which have anything to do with the attack we were talking about.

As for your 'others tested positive so my boy must be clean' argument.

I have something for you.

heyy manner up !

I provided you with a vid from the event i do also remember the race i even watched it and i know that Cancellara raced alone through that tunnel on the motoway.

And i didn't say he didn't dope i said others were caught for CERA so it's unlikly he used CERA.

And just because i'm swiss he must be my boy.. exactly. Maybe i'm just someone who believes in miracles or at least i just think twice about things. and not assuming every win in 2008 must have CERA involved. And ah by the way how on earth you explain the low suspicious index of cancellara he got from the equipe ? 0 or 1 ?