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Benotti69 said:Cant see Vaughters getting someone to sponsor a team in a sport where hidden motors are a thing.
Those other sports don't talk about it.nayr497 said:Benotti69 said:Cant see Vaughters getting someone to sponsor a team in a sport where hidden motors are a thing.
So then why are sponsors not scared of other sports (tennis, American NFL football, baseball/MLB) where there is clearly a ton of doping? I find this hard to sort out.
nayr497 said:Benotti69 said:Cant see Vaughters getting someone to sponsor a team in a sport where hidden motors are a thing.
So then why are sponsors not scared of other sports (tennis, American NFL football, baseball/MLB) where there is clearly a ton of doping? I find this hard to sort out.
JV basing his business on US sponsorship for a mostly European sport is nonsensical. No wonder he burns through so many sponsors and team mergers. Maybe he should've done his MBA in Europe since that is where he needs to attract long term sponsors.
As for the comparison of motorsports and cycling. Motorsports has a much bigger reach and bigger richer corporations backing it. It also relies on a riders ability rather than born with physical attributes and how well they react to PEDs. Not dissing motorsports especially motogp, some super talented riders doing great stuff on 2 wheels.
I don't disagree with the model of bringing sponsorship at a lower level* but it is a bit much at pro conti and WT (not that i know of it happening at WT level yet)
As far as i understand the F1 driver model, most drivers get sponsored at a lower level (formula ford etc) and relinquish a percentage of their earnings if they make it to F1. So the people get a return on investing in a driver.
Benotti69 said:nayr497 said:Benotti69 said:Cant see Vaughters getting someone to sponsor a team in a sport where hidden motors are a thing.
So then why are sponsors not scared of other sports (tennis, American NFL football, baseball/MLB) where there is clearly a ton of doping? I find this hard to sort out.
Doping is not an issue as it is rarely addressed.
Look at NFL and the head injury, chronic traumatic encephalopathy, and how they are doing everything in their power to bury this and make it a non issue.
Cycling has a name as a doping sport and those who run it have failed to address it.
Vaughters merely paid lip service to it. When it came to Danielson he ducked the issue.
Benotti69 said:JV has burned through a lot of sponsors.
Maybe that is result linked or as Fmk demonstrates that JV's mouths is way ahead of his thought process. If i was a business man i would not slam someone who did not sponsor me this year, because who knows they might in 2 or 3 years, but if i criticise them now for not they definitely won't in the future. Maybe JV is MBA smarts but not practical smarts.
I mean a WT team should be winning their home races, especially if their sponsors are from there. That should be #1 goal to keep sponsors keen and happy. Tour of Alberta not won by JV in this a time when he desperately needs results? Not smarts.
.Froomestrong. said:Benotti69 said:JV has burned through a lot of sponsors.
Maybe that is result linked or as Fmk demonstrates that JV's mouths is way ahead of his thought process. If i was a business man i would not slam someone who did not sponsor me this year, because who knows they might in 2 or 3 years, but if i criticise them now for not they definitely won't in the future. Maybe JV is MBA smarts but not practical smarts.
I mean a WT team should be winning their home races, especially if their sponsors are from there. That should be #1 goal to keep sponsors keen and happy. Tour of Alberta not won by JV in this a time when he desperately needs results? Not smarts.
Agreed- not smart to throw shade when you are looking for sponsors, in my opinion. But again, its hard to say that I could do it better since Im not the one running a WT team. Glass houses and all that.
WRT the Tour of Alberta, his guys did just win 3 of 4 stages, so in reality they got exactly what they wanted for the sponsors- pictures of his guys winning and posting up, and podium shots.
Yes, they 17 of us on the forum will say that they didnt win GC, but I dont think many sponsors even know what that is. Optics are what matter most in sponsorship. Just saying...
Benotti69 said:.Froomestrong. said:Benotti69 said:JV has burned through a lot of sponsors.
Maybe that is result linked or as Fmk demonstrates that JV's mouths is way ahead of his thought process. If i was a business man i would not slam someone who did not sponsor me this year, because who knows they might in 2 or 3 years, but if i criticise them now for not they definitely won't in the future. Maybe JV is MBA smarts but not practical smarts.
I mean a WT team should be winning their home races, especially if their sponsors are from there. That should be #1 goal to keep sponsors keen and happy. Tour of Alberta not won by JV in this a time when he desperately needs results? Not smarts.
Agreed- not smart to throw shade when you are looking for sponsors, in my opinion. But again, its hard to say that I could do it better since Im not the one running a WT team. Glass houses and all that.
WRT the Tour of Alberta, his guys did just win 3 of 4 stages, so in reality they got exactly what they wanted for the sponsors- pictures of his guys winning and posting up, and podium shots.
Yes, they 17 of us on the forum will say that they didnt win GC, but I dont think many sponsors even know what that is. Optics are what matter most in sponsorship. Just saying...
When you put your head above the parapet and boy JV loves doing it, he just cant stand the negatives (which he mostly creates) be prepared to get shot at.
Winning overall is the end result as that is the final podium and generates more publicity. Yeah they did well but not well enough! Optics being what matter, final podium gets most. Hence some of JV's sponsor problems.
I think sponsors nowadays are very careful where they put their monies and know what generates most publicity. I guess american companies have hosts of interns researching stuff like this. Be mad not too!
So would it be fair to say there are things in his sponsor dealings that one could criticise him over? (And let's be fair here - you don't have to be able to walk a mile in his shoes to be able to point out that he's limping.).Froomestrong. said:Agreed- not smart to throw shade when you are looking for sponsors, in my opinion.
I think it was in response to a question about how he could have a TdF podium finisher and still not be able to land a sponsor that JV said results don't actually matter, they don't much alter what a sponsor is buying.Benotti69 said:Winning overall is the end result as that is the final podium and generates more publicity. Yeah they did well but not well enough! Optics being what matter, final podium gets most. Hence some of JV's sponsor problems.
I posted a comment on the finance thread, Bob Stapleton pointing out that the companies who would have previously considered sponsoring cycling believe they're getting more bang for their bucks from AdSense placements than the (mythical) 3.5 billion worldwide TV viewers standard cycling pitches offer. Cycling needs to broaden its sponsor gene pool.Benotti69 said:I think sponsors nowadays are very careful where they put their monies and know what generates most publicity. I guess american companies have hosts of interns researching stuff like this. Be mad not too!
fmk_RoI said:I think it was in response to a question about how he could have a TdF podium finisher and still not be able to land a sponsor that JV said results don't actually matter, they don't much alter what a sponsor is buying.Benotti69 said:Winning overall is the end result as that is the final podium and generates more publicity. Yeah they did well but not well enough! Optics being what matter, final podium gets most. Hence some of JV's sponsor problems.I posted a comment on the finance thread, Bob Stapleton pointing out that the companies who would have previously considered sponsoring cycling believe they're getting more bang for their bucks from AdSense placements than the (mythical) 3.5 billion worldwide TV viewers standard cycling pitches offer. Cycling needs to broaden its sponsor gene pool.Benotti69 said:I think sponsors nowadays are very careful where they put their monies and know what generates most publicity. I guess american companies have hosts of interns researching stuff like this. Be mad not too!
I'm not so sure. I think it's about profile and maybe about engagement and you can get that without winning. Look at the way Orica engages its fan base, look at the little team that could narrative that is often used. Yes, some results matter to some: Sky, for instance, need the results, for Murdoch to be able to show how he's buying international pride for the country and so questions shouldn't be asked about the extent of his empire or the antics of his employees. Or a team like Aqua Blue - the current little team that could - that's about a narrative of ambition (which, admittedly, at some point down the line wears thin and you either need to switch up to a new narrative or get the results the old one promised). Short version: it differs for different teams and different sponsors but isn't always results driven.Benotti69 said:I would have thought it was a results driven business for sponsors looking for publicity and results dictate the amount of publicity. Being on the top step of a podium is maximum publicity. But then JV has said lots of BS over the years.
Marketers think online works, that you can accurately target to your chosen demographic, and they like it cause it has clearer (albeit equally inaccurate) metrics.Benotti69 said:I dont agree that companies get more from AdSense (but what do i know) and i do agree that Advertising and sponsoring are still trying to figure how to best to reach its target audiences.
fmk_RoI said:I'm not so sure. I think it's about profile and maybe about engagement and you can get that without winning. Look at the way Orica engages its fan base, look at the little team that could narrative that is often used. Yes, some results matter to some: Sky, for instance, need the results, for Murdoch to be able to show how he's buying international pride for the country and so questions shouldn't be asked about the extent of his empire or the antics of his employees. Or a team like Aqua Blue - the current little team that could - that's about a narrative of ambition (which, admittedly, at some point down the line wears thin and you either need to switch up to a new narrative or get the results the old one promised). Short version: it differs for different teams and different sponsors but isn't always results driven.Benotti69 said:I would have thought it was a results driven business for sponsors looking for publicity and results dictate the amount of publicity. Being on the top step of a podium is maximum publicity. But then JV has said lots of BS over the years.Marketers think online works, that you can accurately target to your chosen demographic, and they like it cause it has clearer (albeit equally inaccurate) metrics.Benotti69 said:I dont agree that companies get more from AdSense (but what do i know) and i do agree that Advertising and sponsoring are still trying to figure how to best to reach its target audiences.
fmk_RoI said:So would it be fair to say there are things in his sponsor dealings that one could criticise him over? (And let's be fair here - you don't have to be able to walk a mile in his shoes to be able to point out that he's limping.).Froomestrong. said:Agreed- not smart to throw shade when you are looking for sponsors, in my opinion.
Benotti69 said:I would argue JV is not down, but the staff are going to be down. JV is doing ok financially, you can be sure of that. His ego will take a hit.
But pro cycling is a dirty sport and anyone getting invloved with it better have their eyes open. Not a sport for long term employment for many.
"As of right now, I am informing you that if you have a contract with Slipstreamsports for 2018, we are enforcing your contract. More to come.”
fmk_RoI said:Having told their riders to man the lifeboats and save themselves, Crapac now says all 2018 contracts will be enforced:"As of right now, I am informing you that if you have a contract with Slipstreamsports for 2018, we are enforcing your contract. More to come.”
Benotti69 said:fmk_RoI said:Having told their riders to man the lifeboats and save themselves, Crapac now says all 2018 contracts will be enforced:"As of right now, I am informing you that if you have a contract with Slipstreamsports for 2018, we are enforcing your contract. More to come.”
JV knows how to win friends and influence........building strong teams bonds, hmmmmmm :lol:
proffate said:JV wisely chose a "flexible goal" for that crowdfunding campaign, so he still gets to con his fans out of their $529,080 (thus far).